Add a separate spindryer or an attached spindryer and most of the problems are solved.
Wet Clothes
- Thread starter Chetlaham
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Right, but I can't see someone taking the clothes out, putting them in a spin dryer than putting them back in to dry. It wouldn't be an automatic washer 
Though I do get your point, time and energy are wasted trying evaporate all that extra water.
Though I do get your point, time and energy are wasted trying evaporate all that extra water.
"but I can't see someone taking the clothes out, putting them in a spin dryer than putting them back in to dry."
I have shown you this machine before. That's exactly what was done in it in the 70's in Europe.
The text says: From the laundryroom to the drying attick is only 11 centimeters.
I have shown you this machine before. That's exactly what was done in it in the 70's in Europe.
The text says: From the laundryroom to the drying attick is only 11 centimeters.
Here is a working one.
I know it was done in Europe, but modern day 2020 I don't think people will settle with a spin dryer.
My mind is still on the combination washer-dryers sold in the US that washed then dried without any human involvement.
My mind is still on the combination washer-dryers sold in the US that washed then dried without any human involvement.
"Simple, long lasting, reliable... why not? "
because an electronic control, properly engineered and not built to lowest possible price, will be more reliable than a mechanical timer and gives the ability to drive a direct drive, infinitely variable speed motor like LG washers that needs no belt or pulleys. The technology is very cheap to manufacture. (the fact that machines using that technology are often expensive reflects greedy corporate culture not manufacturing cost.) It would be able to spin out water when needed. You don't only need to spin to extract water before drying, you also need it to squeeze out sudsy water between rinses. Older front loaders used to rinse without intermediate spins, and had to do 5 or 6 rinses to do a reasonable job with only 1 intermediate spin. Modern machines that spin before every rinse can do 2 or 3 rinses yet rinse better than the old water hogs.
If you want to build a one-off water and energy waster for your own amusement, knock yourself out. But don't try to go to market with it - it would be a fast track to bankruptcy.
because an electronic control, properly engineered and not built to lowest possible price, will be more reliable than a mechanical timer and gives the ability to drive a direct drive, infinitely variable speed motor like LG washers that needs no belt or pulleys. The technology is very cheap to manufacture. (the fact that machines using that technology are often expensive reflects greedy corporate culture not manufacturing cost.) It would be able to spin out water when needed. You don't only need to spin to extract water before drying, you also need it to squeeze out sudsy water between rinses. Older front loaders used to rinse without intermediate spins, and had to do 5 or 6 rinses to do a reasonable job with only 1 intermediate spin. Modern machines that spin before every rinse can do 2 or 3 rinses yet rinse better than the old water hogs.
If you want to build a one-off water and energy waster for your own amusement, knock yourself out. But don't try to go to market with it - it would be a fast track to bankruptcy.
I agree it will need more water for better rinsing. There is no way around that hence why I was asking about a 250RPM spin which will help at least some.
However, respectfully, how do you know it wouldn't sell? The incredibly low cost will appeal to a certain percentage of the market who are purely price conscious. The reduced weight from not having counter weights will further lower the price. A $300 combo is a killer deal.
For some water usage will not matter since they are used to top loads anyways.
Energy usage will be a bit perky, yes. Thats the sacrifice.
I've seen plenty of singer timers last 30-40+ years without issue. If it worked back then it will work today.
However, respectfully, how do you know it wouldn't sell? The incredibly low cost will appeal to a certain percentage of the market who are purely price conscious. The reduced weight from not having counter weights will further lower the price. A $300 combo is a killer deal.
For some water usage will not matter since they are used to top loads anyways.
Energy usage will be a bit perky, yes. Thats the sacrifice.
I've seen plenty of singer timers last 30-40+ years without issue. If it worked back then it will work today.
"The reduced weight from not having counter weights will
further lower the price"
Don`t you get it, there cannot be a reduced weight if you build a washer without suspension even at 250 RPM unless it`s bolted down.
They have been around in the past and vanished for a good reason.
Was thinking about a Cordes machine where I changed the belt for a friend eons ago, but decided to delete my post because I saw myself dragged into a stupid political discussion which is not only pointless if someone ignores the facts but also against the rules.
There`s also a Zanussi in the Pink Forum that spins without suspension and it certainly hasn`t a reduced weight at 194 lbs.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?84571_82~1
further lower the price"
Don`t you get it, there cannot be a reduced weight if you build a washer without suspension even at 250 RPM unless it`s bolted down.
They have been around in the past and vanished for a good reason.
Was thinking about a Cordes machine where I changed the belt for a friend eons ago, but decided to delete my post because I saw myself dragged into a stupid political discussion which is not only pointless if someone ignores the facts but also against the rules.
There`s also a Zanussi in the Pink Forum that spins without suspension and it certainly hasn`t a reduced weight at 194 lbs.
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?84571_82~1
I thought the old combos had no counterweights and were not bolted down? Could be wrong though as I've never seen or taken apart a vintage combo in person.
Ignoring Facts
I'm not ignoring anything. I understand this concept will take more water and energy, I never once disputed that fact.
I also know high speed spin need a suspension or a bolt down. Low speed spin will not work on a smaller plastic washer. I know the old combos spun without a suspension at 250 rpm and thus I assumed the weight of the washer itself kept them stationary but now I get the feeling those had counterweights in them?
I wouldn't call this discussion political pointless. Most threads here center around energy efficiency and government involvement.
There is also the fact that when I do post in regards to subjects I deal with day in and day out my posts are skimmed over and not taken seriously simply because I don't pass the appliance knowledge test.
I don't have a collection of major appliances, I don't service appliances for a living, and I've restored only a handful of machines. So yes I have absolutely no clue in some regards especially when it comes to vintage FL and combos.
I'm not ignoring anything. I understand this concept will take more water and energy, I never once disputed that fact.
I also know high speed spin need a suspension or a bolt down. Low speed spin will not work on a smaller plastic washer. I know the old combos spun without a suspension at 250 rpm and thus I assumed the weight of the washer itself kept them stationary but now I get the feeling those had counterweights in them?
I wouldn't call this discussion political pointless. Most threads here center around energy efficiency and government involvement.
There is also the fact that when I do post in regards to subjects I deal with day in and day out my posts are skimmed over and not taken seriously simply because I don't pass the appliance knowledge test.
I don't have a collection of major appliances, I don't service appliances for a living, and I've restored only a handful of machines. So yes I have absolutely no clue in some regards especially when it comes to vintage FL and combos.
There is a load of information about older combos on this website. Perhaps you should go through some threads about them. One of the thing you would find out is that they were all very heavy. I think it's time to start reading first and then think things over again.
Sorry for not being clear on this one but I was referring to those biased, lobby driven "facts" about nuclear power which I decided better not to be involved in. Not in the Blue Forum at least.
Considering how well you know how to trigger Louis, John, me and many others again and again all the credit goes to you!
Considering how well you know how to trigger Louis, John, me and many others again and again all the credit goes to you!
Thats what you don't understand. Those statements regarding NP are neither biased nor are they lobby driven. They are rooted in physics and practicality. Same physics that has the sun splitting atoms instead of burning coal. NP doesn't take idiots, it takes the best and brightest humanity has to offer.
Once NP becomes dominate, energy consumption will no longer be an issue. Minus capitol and maintenance (which will be less in the long run compared to renewables and batteries), NP is 100% free and 100% carbon free.
Once NP becomes dominate, energy consumption will no longer be an issue. Minus capitol and maintenance (which will be less in the long run compared to renewables and batteries), NP is 100% free and 100% carbon free.
Yahhh, not surprised. They do use metal, and lost of it. Perhaps 250 rpm no suspension is a no go, which is good that I have that part figured.
Even if it was safe to generate NP, do you think uranium is an unlimited resource like the sun and wind?
Can you tell only one single nation on the planet which has already found a way to store all the nuclear waste safely forever?
Can you tell only one single nation on the planet which has already found a way to store all the nuclear waste safely forever?
There is enough thorium and uranium in the earths crust to last for millennia. By then I'm sure we will find other sources of energy like using space vehicles to harvest power from stars assuming we don't create one on earth.
Newer designs use fuel more efficiently, and there are experiments being conducted in recycling the fuel down to something more safe/manageable.
Still then caskets of spent fuel rods + generating stations take up a small fraction of space compared to solar and windfarms of the same MW output.
Newer designs use fuel more efficiently, and there are experiments being conducted in recycling the fuel down to something more safe/manageable.
Still then caskets of spent fuel rods + generating stations take up a small fraction of space compared to solar and windfarms of the same MW output.
Also check this out, from 2007:
https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/recycling-nuclear-fuel-the-french-do-it-why-cant-oui
https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/recycling-nuclear-fuel-the-french-do-it-why-cant-oui
This thread needs to be in dirty laundry so we can really discuss NP and your silly machine ideas that will set us back to the Stone Age in energy usage etc.
Chelsea I have upgraded you so you can join the discussion and also let other people add their opinions freely.
John L.
Chelsea I have upgraded you so you can join the discussion and also let other people add their opinions freely.
John L.
I'm standing behind what I said, once nuclear becomes dominant, energy usage will not matter. A low cost combo would be worth marketing.
Thanks for the upgrade, but you need avoid terms like "being off meds" because I'm not crazy in any way for having these ideas.
Thanks for the upgrade, but you need avoid terms like "being off meds" because I'm not crazy in any way for having these ideas.
Modern Combo Washer
John, I want you to see this:
https://www.whirlpool.com/content/d...l-w11243198-smart-all-in-one-washer-dryer.pdf
If we could just remove the condenser for a top access filter and exhaust we'd be half way there. Ditch the springs and shocks, adds a 16 pole motor and belt, get rid of the detergent pumps, cold water fill only, mechanical timer (the electronics in this washer aren't my cup of tea) , and we'd be all set. An entry level model could have no dispenser to save on cost.
The timer would determine water temps by adding more wash time. 10 minutes for cold/delicate, 50 minutes for a heavy duty boil wash. I'd make the water heater stats cut out at 186*F-192*F. No an actual boil but high altitudes taken into consideration.
I wish I could actually play with the machine.
John, I want you to see this:
https://www.whirlpool.com/content/d...l-w11243198-smart-all-in-one-washer-dryer.pdf
If we could just remove the condenser for a top access filter and exhaust we'd be half way there. Ditch the springs and shocks, adds a 16 pole motor and belt, get rid of the detergent pumps, cold water fill only, mechanical timer (the electronics in this washer aren't my cup of tea) , and we'd be all set. An entry level model could have no dispenser to save on cost.
The timer would determine water temps by adding more wash time. 10 minutes for cold/delicate, 50 minutes for a heavy duty boil wash. I'd make the water heater stats cut out at 186*F-192*F. No an actual boil but high altitudes taken into consideration.
I wish I could actually play with the machine.
"...I know it was done in Europe, but modern day 2020 I don't think people will settle with a spin dryer."
The Laundry Alternative sold 43.376 spin dryer units from January 1st 2020 to 5:38pm (PT) 10/27/20.
1 more while I was typing this.
The Laundry Alternative sold 43.376 spin dryer units from January 1st 2020 to 5:38pm (PT) 10/27/20.
1 more while I was typing this.
Thats still a small number compared to global laundry sales.
My point is I can't see someone buying a combo, having it shut off middle cycle, take the clothes out, spin them, then putting them back into the drum.
Just have the machine run through the cycle for an hour and 20 minutes and you're done.
My point is I can't see someone buying a combo, having it shut off middle cycle, take the clothes out, spin them, then putting them back into the drum.
Just have the machine run through the cycle for an hour and 20 minutes and you're done.
after 1 hr 20 minutes the wash will still be dripping wet if it hasn't been spun out.
After about 45 minutes of filling/tumbling/draining/ect the drain pump shuts off, the blower kicks in and 4,500 watts of heating starts doing its thing.
Reply # 81
And it will take about 3 hours to dry 10 pounds of cotton towels or clothing,
What don't you understand ? are you just trying for attention or do you have a real problem ? Whats the point of continuing these silly ideas ?
John L.
And it will take about 3 hours to dry 10 pounds of cotton towels or clothing,
What don't you understand ? are you just trying for attention or do you have a real problem ? Whats the point of continuing these silly ideas ?
John L.
All I can say is....
<span style="font-size: 14pt;">My friends know me before Metamucil, They Prefer me After!</span>
<span style="font-size: 14pt;">My friends know me before Metamucil, They Prefer me After!</span>
<blockquote>Just have the machine run through the cycle for an hour and 20 minutes and you're done.
...
After about 45 minutes of filling/tumbling/draining/ect the drain pump shuts off, the blower kicks in and 4,500 watts of heating starts doing its thing.</blockquote> hour + 20 mins = 80 mins total cycle, with 80 mins total - 45 mins washing/rinsing/draining = 35 mins drying time
When will you have this machine built? The people are eager to see it run a variety of loads ... jeans, sheets, bath towels & socks & kitchen towels, quilts, comforters, lingerie, shirts & trousers, knit/synthetic garments, throw rugs, curtains, woolen items, shower curtains, etc.
I wish I could build it as a test concept, but have no means to do so. Ideally if I could get my hands on a combo washer and rig the motor for manual control- ie just tumble.
@john- Where are you getting that 3 hour figure from? This combo will be on a 240 volts, 30 amp circuit.
Do an experiment. Drain a Speed Queen Classic Clean washer with a tub full of clothes. Let the clothes drip for about half an hour or so. Place them in a Whirlpool top mount filter dryer. I can't see it taking 3 hours. But that is going by what I did 10 years ago when my DD stopped spinning.
@dadoes: good catch. I was thinking about the timer increments. That machine will have a thermostat on the exhaust that will re-start the timer when the exhaust temps go above 140*F-160*F.
Here is an example of an old Combo that appears to do the same in regards to having stats that advance the timer when exhaust temps go up: [this post was last edited: 10/28/2020-10:31]
@john- Where are you getting that 3 hour figure from? This combo will be on a 240 volts, 30 amp circuit.
Do an experiment. Drain a Speed Queen Classic Clean washer with a tub full of clothes. Let the clothes drip for about half an hour or so. Place them in a Whirlpool top mount filter dryer. I can't see it taking 3 hours. But that is going by what I did 10 years ago when my DD stopped spinning.
@dadoes: good catch. I was thinking about the timer increments. That machine will have a thermostat on the exhaust that will re-start the timer when the exhaust temps go above 140*F-160*F.
Here is an example of an old Combo that appears to do the same in regards to having stats that advance the timer when exhaust temps go up: [this post was last edited: 10/28/2020-10:31]
murando531
Well-known member
Putting soggy clothes into a dryer is going to ruin the dryer.... what sense does any of this make. Not even in the hanging-out-to-dry days did people just hang clothes up sopping and dripping wet... they got as much water out by hand or they ran each item through a roller wringer. My grandparents grew up as kids without even a wringer washer, just a big barrel and a stick to wash clothes, and they still squeezed everything out as best they could.
Idk who needs to hear this but put soggy clothes in your dryers at your own risk, because once that water starts sloshing through the felt drum seals and into the blower and onto the motor and heating elements, I don't think I have to illustrate the outcome.
Idk who needs to hear this but put soggy clothes in your dryers at your own risk, because once that water starts sloshing through the felt drum seals and into the blower and onto the motor and heating elements, I don't think I have to illustrate the outcome.
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