What Does Speed Queen, Hotpoint, AMC Coronado, Easy and Grainger have in common?

[Unimatic1140]

The Beam version of those machines (solenoid Speed Queen types I'm referring to) use huge solenoid(s) to shifts into wash and spin.

Well Grainger still sells those exact solenoids! Yay, part number 2x662. The catalog page even descrbibes the solenoid as "Solenoid,Laundry 2X662: For Hotpoint, Maytag, Norge, Speed Queen, Philco-Bendix, and other brands of washers and dryers."

I needed a new one because the Agitate solenoid in my 1956 Hotpoint started to smoke. Those of you with vintage Beam style machines might want to pick up a few of these to have on hand. Gosh the brand new one looks all nice a shiny compared to the only one. The only difference I can see between these two is the terminals are on the opposite side, but who cares, the frame is exactly the same otherwise.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2X662

 

[Unimatic1140]

Look how pretty it looks installed in the 1956 Hotpoint. Unlike other Beam machines the 1955 and 1956 Hotpoint with the Spider Clutch design only used one solenoid to do both shifting into agitate and de-energizing to release and shift the machine into spin.

 

[swestoyz]

OMG Robert this is so funny! I was at work two days ago thumbing through the catalog in a training session for one of my Electrical Tech Support guys. I was on that very page, 337, and said to the new guy - hey look, we even sell solenoids for old washers! Grainger also used to sell direct replacement motors for all the major washer brands but discontinued about 5 years ago as the demand had fallen out from our customers.

Take a look at a 4UE53 - an almost perfect match to a Kelvinator motor, minus the set screw hole on the shaft that needs to be drilled.

Ben

 

[golittlesport]

I love the beauty of an all-porcelain inside and out finish. Robert, your Hotpoint looks awesome!

 

[scott55405]

You saved washday for Mrs. Nelson!

 

[hooverwheelaway]

Yay! For new parts!

It's beeeeeautiful!



~F

 

[jetcone]

I wonder

if that solenoid would fit my KDS-14 drain valve?? hmmm

it looks beautiful in there

 

[mickeyd]

What Does Speed Queen, Hotpoint, AMC Coronado, Easy and Grai

None of them were former mouse houses like all of Jon's big bad Bendicies. :>> ;'D ha ha tickle tickle

 

[sudsmaster]

Yes, Grainger is really great. That's where I found a solenoid to replace the defective one in one of my Miele W1065 washers. It wasn't an exact fit (it's much larger) but it works just fine.

 

[swestoyz]

Trip back in the archives

This week I was in Lincolnshire, IL for business. I took a new position within the Technical Product Support team for Grainger. What was the first thing I did when I got to town? Started digging in the old catalogs!

Here is a wonderful example from the spring of 1975. Lists the MFG OEM part number for the replacement solenoids. Note that each listed here are the exact same ones that Robert had pointed out earlier - and are still for sale. Who would have thought?

Ben

 

[mrb627]

Maximum On-Time

Interesting that the Catalog Page indicates that the MAXIMUM ON-TIME is 3 MINUTES. I sure hope that is a misprint.

MRB

 

[fltcoils]

Rewind

Did anyone ever consider rewinding a solenoid coil? Something to do on long winters nights?

A measurement of the coil outside diameter, and a measurement of the coil wire cross section diameter is all you need.

It's just like winding kite string on a spool...patience but not mechanically or electrically difficult.

And, if you like you can redesign to make it run cooler (but weaker). Changing wire diameter down .002" will raise the coil resistance and so lower the watts consumed/ and radiated as heat by between 50 and 70%.

Those "max on time 3 minutes" notes are because of high coil current. It heats up and begins to melt if ....

sorry I'm probably going into too much detail, but I do know a bit about solenoids.

 

[panthera]

Bill,

You can not go into too much detail - I am fascinated.
Often wondered how the manufacturers dealt with the relationships between inductive load, electromagnetic force needed and heat loss (or not) over single and repeated actuations.
Not to mention the fact that, at least into the early 50s, they'd have had to build for 25-60hz...or was that too great a range to even attempt?
Do say more.
Another question, sorry, but get these things in my head and they just echo around forever: Is the heat rise the reason for teflon insulation? I could see how that might have made things easier.
Thanks!

 

[fltcoils]

solenoid design

The solenoid converts electric watts into pull, a potential energy, and also into heat.

Copper wire has resistance to current, and takes up space.

From this one designs the solenoid.

Look up a great magnetic analysis program called FEMM 4.0. manual and everything. allows you to model things magnetically.

So... someone says "I need a solenoid"
It must pull this hard
stroke this far
run this long
run on voltage of this level
consume this many watts
be this big
be this heavy.
(and for airplanes
run from -65 to +300 degF, vibrate at 40 Gs and cycle >2,000,000 with a 2 * 10^-6 failure rate.)

from that we check to see if physics and material science allows such a beast to be built, then refine the design so it can be and fit the budget.

2 kinds of solenoid,
the door bell type with just a slug in a coil
the stronger kind with a slug pulling into and against a metal post.

metal conducts magetic fields 10,000 time better than air. So a metal frame for a solenoid helps a lot.

Solenoid strength doesn't directly depend on voltage, because you can use smaller/larger wire and still get current thru the solenoid. Mostly it is a product of coil winding cross-sectional area and watts. That's about it. Run small hotter, or larger cooler.

don't let it melt. That's kind of the main point of solenoid design. The common magnet wire is rated 180C for 100,000 hrs. But aerospace uses 240C wire more often, so temps of the coil > 420 degF are not uncommon or cause for concern. Some designs are good for 10-30 seconds every 20 minutes, like reaction control jet thrusters on a rocket, but others are good for continuous operation. Designing every solenoid for continuous operation would waste size and weight/copper etc.

There are equations out there relating turns of wire and amps to magnetic pull force. But rebuilding a coil actually can skip this. you know the coil volume, and the mag wire size from the old coil. Simply wind off the old wire and rewind. Use scotch teflon winding tape (see MSC catalog etc.) to cover the bobbin ID and ends well, and use stranded wire strapped to the finished coil to get the current to the coil. Never connect to things using the solid magnetic wire 1) it's not insulated well 2)it cold works easily and fractures.

another thing,
it takes a lot more current for a solenoid to pull into it's energized position than it does to hold it's self in an energized position. so economies can be had by adding a resistor and microswitch to vary the solenoid current. Some turboprop planes use 4" by 10 " solenoid to shift the gearbox for prop feathering, an incredable force for a small solenoid, because it can shift current and has a means to shift current.

enough, I'm sure I've bored you.

 

[tuthill]

fltcoils

Very interesting post! that's pretty cool you get to design something that has to meet all those specifications

 

[panthera]

Thanks!

Not boring at all - I love these details.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Interesting that the Catalog Page indicates that the MAXIMUM ON-TIME is 3 MINUTES. I sure hope that is a misprint.

yeah I saw that too before I bought it, but I just assumed it was a mistake, and sure enough it was. The Hotpoint works just fine now and after a 15 minute wash cycle the solenoid is only warm, just like the original ones.