What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy

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Really, is it not the volume that matters rather than the weight of the clothes?  Blue jeans are a heavy, dense material but do not take up that much volume like sheer curtains would but those do not weigh much. 

 

Still I would have divided that load as I wonder how it must smell.  I find when I overload (I don't) the clothes do not smell clean.  I would also be afraid of overheating the dryer. 
 
Both Weight and Volume matter

Both weight and volume are not perfect guides, both matter.

But what else can we use?

using just one is poor too.

If one has fluffy stuff one has a lot of volume and little mass.

If one sewed fishing sinkers in the jeans the machine could have just 8 pairs of blue jeans and the same 11 Kg weight but more room for movement.

All the stuff washed here smells fine; it all washed very well.

There has to be some sort of tracking with the number of jeans washed versus basket size since there has to be space for things to move round. Since non use folks washers are speced in Kg it seems odd that the volume issue is often downplayed.

Thus if this same 11Kg load is placed in a smaller basket that is 2/3's the size the mixing has to be less; unless there is some trick?...

This load of clothes will not fit in the 1976 westy FL drum with a 2.6 cuft basket; the same volume as many 24" frames. Thus one would have to wash less pairs of jeans since the volume is too large.
 
...members are claiming that Americans are being wasteful...

by washing the same amount of clothing in a 27" machine that a 24" machine can handle. Is this accurate?

EXACTLY THAT!

And without offending anybody I just would like to explain the point again:

The average American load is a half load compared to the European average load, nobody is saying that an American FL machine is wasteful compared to an European one.

Anyway jeans is not a standard cotton load, it's jeans. You should try to put a mixed load of towels, t-shirts, bed sheets and similar other items.

Myself I wouldn't overload my machine with more than 5 pair of jeans because otherwise the denim develops those nasty discolored lines and the fabric is stiff so it needs room to tumble! In this case it's not underloading, it's following care instructions.

11 kg or 24 lbs is the standard capacity for this 24" machine from LG, sold all over the 230 Volts world.
So indeed a small machine can hold the same capacity of a larger one, it all depends on the software that drives it (within certain limits of course!)

Now going back to "standard" and not oversize 24" machines, the average American load fits, and space remains in a "little" 5 kg machine. This was just what we (can I use we) wanted to say.

And of course the machine regulates water and power use!

There were a lot of official tests done here: one of Whirlpool Italy, that can be found on youtube too, shows the machine washing a full load of clothes (8kg) and it consumed 60 litres of water.
When washing 1 kg of clothes, the machine used only 25 litres of water and completed the programme in half the time.

Now:

60/8 = 7,5 litres of water per kg
25/1 = 25 litres of water per kg

this is or not a waste?

It's what everybody is trying to explain.

And to finish up, indeed in a bigger volume you can stuff more clothes, but if the machine isn't designed to handle it, you're not going to obtain a fair result!

Please comment, I wish I've been clear enough!


dj-gabriele++2-19-2011-15-48-36.jpg.png
 
My factory reps for LG, GE, and Maytag

All tell me essentially the same thing: When you've loaded the machine, you should be able to shut the door easily without forcing it. If you're pushing, it's overloaded. If not, it will wash whatever's in there satisfactorily if you've selected the correct cycle.

They use either bath towels or king-size bed linens as a measure, since they are of uniform size. You just can't compare 25 pair of mens' sz.40 jeans to 25 pairs of ladies' sz.4 jeans! Ditto with sweats, shirts, et. al.

Goes the same for top-load non-agitator machines.

Off topic, but I just had to share. Yesterday I was doing wash at my apartment's laundry room (TL Maytags). A middle-eastern man was using a 2X4 to cram laundry into one of the machines! I had to leave promptly before I started screaming at him.
 
OK, I have my 3.1 cu. ft. Fridgemore.  My pants size is 40 to 42 x 30.  I can comfortably get 5 or 6 pair of Dockers type of slacks in my washer.  Anymore than that, it erally has a difficult time balancing and tangling is even worse.  the only way I can get more in there without it hving big balancing problems, is if I load the slacks like in a Unimatic, even more extreme actually.  I fold them over in half and then fold them up vertically so they're almost shaped like a pillow.  then I put them in the machine and they pretty much stay that way through the cycle.  My jeans are 42 or 44 X 30 (I like them loose).  I will be washing jeans tomorrow, 4 or 5 pair, and that's about maximum I feel like I SHOULD put in the machine given their weight and size. 

 

3Belt you are obviously a far smaller person in clothing dimension thatn myself.  I odn't think I could get 15 pair of my size jeans in your LG.  also, you look like you took some care and logical approach to placing all those jeans in the tub.  I have found that if you take your time and just don't stuff a whole bunch of stuff in there all at once, the machine balances easier. 

 

And congratulations everything came out clean, I know that load had various soil levels in all the jeans. 

 

Also, thank you for the videos. 
 
Cramming Commercial/Laundromat Front Loaders

Happens all the time at our local, and the 50lb Speed Queen at that.

This is quite annoying since it is the only reaons one goes to the place! *LOL*

Last few times it has always been the same bloddy stupid woman. According to the attendent she comes in with huge bin liners of stuff, and then proceeds to cram it all into that one washer. Both times damage was so great the bearings had to be pulled and replaced.

Upon hearing this story I'm like: "you let her do it the first time, what did you think was going to happen when she showed up and started over-loading the machine again? The attendents at this laundry will jump on anyone trying to start a wash near or after "last call", but yet they stand around and allow all sorts of "abuse to go on.
 
Nonsense

Your numbers don't make sense.  We are talking about the same quantity of clothing washed on opposite sides of the pond.  Whether or not I wash in a smaller machine or a larger one.  If the quantity of clothing doesn't change, what is the difference? All the writeups I read on the Miele machines report that one of the first things the owner does is go into the programming and bypass the water efficiency of the machine for maximum fills.

 

 You are claiming that my machine is wasting energy.  I say hogwash.

 

A few years back, I invested in a set of Asko machines.  What a nightmare.  The average load took 90 minutes.  And it went through 5 deep rinses.  Compared to the two rinses on my current American machine.  Talk about wasteful...

 

Malcolm
 
I think you should divide the load. My Bosch HE machine doe

Just goes to show dosen't it.

The way the machine 3beltwesty has posted is loaded is considered underloaded in our machines.

But even the cheapest machines sold here don't flinch at it!
 
You should try to put a mixed load of towels, t-shirts, bed

Personally, I wouldn't think of washing a load like that with varios fiber weights and such.  I MAY consider washing all that together, but I wouldn't even think of drying all that together.  Everything would dry unevenly.  I wash & dry how a Sears repair man told a neighbor to wash and dry so thihngs dry evenly and don't under or over dry, even with electronic sensor dryers.  Wash & dry similar weight items together.  t-thirs (undershirts) and other undergarments dry at a lower heat and dry at a different rate than towels.  and sheets dry fairly quickly compared to most anything else in my laundry piles. 
 
"I MAY consider washing all that together, but I wouldn't even think of drying all that together. Everything would dry unevenly."

Yup in a traditional air dryer that would likely be the case. With a good condenser dryer (popular in Europe) it seems to work fine on Mixed Fabrics. Many in EU land also line dry at least some of their items as well.
 
To be truthful, many people don't even own that many jeans so a single person is not likely to have what you consider a full load. I would think most Europeans do not have as many clothes as Americans do.  Appnut, do you wear genuine Dockers or do you wear one of the off brands? 

 

Then there is the issue of the dryer being overloaded:  If the load has any polyester in it at all, the dryer could get so hot that some of the fabric gets burned onto the back of the drum.  I don't know about Westinghouse dryers back then but Frigidaire dryers are based on that dryer and they get hot as hll.  Of course, that might no be a problem with all cotton jeans, or in Europe where there is less polyester.  I don't know if they ever went through a disco phase in the 70s with John Travolta dancing in a white polyester suit. 
 
bob, some are actual Dockers and other brands acquired from Academy, Sams, Dillards, Wallyworld.  Not from Target.  Target seems to have an aversion to anything that's wrinkle free cotton pants, at least in my small store. 
 
I would never do that large of a load in my FL machine.   Funny, I cleaned out my closet a week ago, and had lots of jeans too. I  tossed stuff that had not been worn in some time in the wash.  Not dirty, just been there for a year or two.  I wear 34x36 jeans and I have possibly 18 of them.  I'd put maybe a max of 8 in the Duet FL at one time.  I don't believe in stressing the machine that much, wet jeans are heavy.  Why stress the machine to save a bit of water and power?
 
For my "daily driver"front loads,mah3000 neptune and splendide combomatic
(2002,antonio merloni mfg),i just stuff the clothes in until i am about
to the center of the drum or just above-i like the clothes to tumble and
drop with some force to get them clean,if it is overloaded and the clothes
mostly just rotate dipping in and out of the water i feel they won't be
washed as effectivly..
For work i fix motors,generators,gearboxes and other industrial machinery-
much of it from gravel pits,mines and other extremely dirty locations so
my clothes get really dirty,but always come out clean loaded about to drum
center.
 
Ok, I've waited all day for my PC to be functioning to add to this....and I may regret it, but here goes...

Firstly, I don't for a moment believe that anyone here is intentionally wasteful. We choose to do things a particular way because it suits us, our family or our time frames.

Secondly, the question I raised a couple of weeks ago and on another post recently was about USABLE drum volume/capacity....I was trying to find out a comparison between the CU FT and KG measurments.

Myself and every other person who previously commented that owns a European style machine has been trying to say this:

- European style machines (and I include every Asian made non-American market specific ones here too) are DESIGNED and INTENDED to be filled right to the top of the wash basket......that is what constitutes a 'Full Load'

- There is a belief, generally, that American 'large capacity' machines do not have the ability to be filled in the same manner as a European machine and to wash to an appropriate standard. This would seem to be confirmed by the comments above with people saying 'I would split that load' etc....

- Consumer magazines test to a country specific standard. Normally, test loads consist of a mix of different shapes and sizes of cotton fabric to represent sheets, towels, clothing etc. When filled with these items in a particular way, the resulting weight is the 'capacity'. Some are easier to fill to this weight of dry cotton cloth than others.

 

- Good try with the jeans 3Belt, but a mixed load of differing sized items is what is needed plus scales should be on a hard surface, not on another appliance.... ;) 

- In Australia, when our Consumer Magazine test machines, they are FILLED to their stated capacity (in KG) in the manner above. The mix of items will vary depending on stated capacity, but will be the same for all machines of the same stated capacity.

- American made machines have historically been shown, in this country at least, to overstate what they will hold. 'Choice' famously published a photo of either a Whirlpool or Maytag 'filled' to the stated capacity (in KG) - the lid was up at 45 degrees with the test load billowing out!

- Matt posted a table in a previous post that 3Belt provided a few months ago. These are the weights that the US Government (I think...it could be your consumer magazine) state that a machine should wash for a given CT FT capacity:

Container volume Test load
cu. ft.¡Ý< liter¡Ý< lb kg
0-0.80 0-22.7 3.00 1.36
0.80-0.90 22.7-25.5 3.50 1.59
0.90-1.00 25.5-28.3 3.90 1.77
1.00-1.10 28.3-31.1 4.30 1.95
1.10-1.20 31.1-34.0 4.70 2.13
1.20-1.30 34.0-36.8 5.10 2.31
1.30-1.40 36.8-39.6 5.50 2.49
1.40-1.50 39.6-42.5 5.90 2.68
1.50-1.60 42.5-45.3 6.40 2.90
1.60-1.70 45.3-48.1 6.80 3.08
1.70-1.80 48.1-51.0 7.20 3.27
1.80-1.90 51.0-53.8 7.60 3.45
1.90-2.00 53.8-56.6 8.00 3.63
2.00-2.10 56.6-59.5 8.40 3.81
2.10-2.20 59.5-62.3 8.80 3.99
2.20-2.30 62.3-65.1 9.20 4.17
2.30-2.40 65.1-68.0 9.60 4.35
2.40-2.50 68.0-70.8 10.00 4.54
2.50-2.60 70.8-73.6 10.50 4.76
2.60-2.70 73.6-76.5 10.90 4.94
2.70-2.80 76.5-79.3 11.30 5.13
2.80-2.90 79.3-82.1 11.70 5.31
2.90-3.00 82.1-85.0 12.10 5.49
3.00-3.10 85.0-87.8 12.50 5.67
3.10-3.20 87.8-90.6 12.90 5.85
3.20-3.30 90.6-93.4 13.30 6.03
3.30-3.40 93.4-96.3 13.70 6.21
3.40-3.50 96.3-99.1 14.10 6.40
3.50-3.60 99.1-101.9 14.60 6.62
3.60-3.70 101.9-104.8 15.00 6.80
3.70-3.80 104.8-107.6 15.40 6.99
Notes: (1) All test load weights are bone dry weights.

Using the above scale...a 4.40 CU FT machine would have a test load of about 8.1 KG.

 

Hoover sell a machine in Europe that is 40cm (16") wide that will take an 8KG load - thats the same amount that a 4.40CU FT machine would be expected to wash in the US!

 

- My comments previously in respect to the above table have been that....my machine here is rated at 6.5KG and would be tested at that capacity by our consumer magazine and European ones. This means that, in our market (and Europe) it is expected to perform to the equivalent of a US 3.55CU FT machine even though in the US it would be rated at about 2.20 - 2.50 CU FT. 

 

- Before anyone bleats about cycle times being shorter in the US, I run my machine on the 'Quick Cotton 40c' cycle filled...just over an hour. The standard cycle is just short of 2hrs.

- The ability of a machine to actually WASH a given load has no relevance at all to dryer capacity. The majority of the world don't own them and those that do own them outside of North American, tend not to use them all the time. Plus, it wasn't the point of the question...Washer capacity and the ability to wash a 'full to the brim' load is.
 
And let me say this. When I bought my compact Bosch machines, I bought them new and when the nice guys at Lowe's left and I opened the plastic packet with all the waranty info stuff, etc, there was a two-page owner's manual. It didn't really tell me much except for laundry pound limits. I couldn't find anything on the web either under the Bosch site. I would get on the bathroom scales and pick up laundry until I had surpassed my weight with the laundry weight load. I figured out it did better if I didn't do all towels or all jeans, but a combination of large and small items. I had to change my thinking because I was used to traditional large capacity American machines. Also, another thing I had to get used to was how long it took for it to complete entire wash cycle. Being high efficiency, it would stop and add a little more water and sometimes stop and add a little more. It was a practice patience for me. We were having an extreme drought her in SC back in the summer 2008 when I bouht them and I liked the fact this model didn't use much water. Also, they're very small and don't take up much space. The dryer is ductless and I don't think I will ever do that again. I have to be careful to keep up the maintenance on the dryer and keep the lint traps cleaned out. The last two times Mr. appliance repairman, aka Mr. Big Hands came out he told me it was very vary important with the ductless dryer to keep all the lint cleanded out at all times. He said I didn't want my house to burn down. The other thing is it heats the kitchen up.
 
Capacity

I think we are just trying to work out from the testing table above what is a perceivable equivalent KG capacity...

Take the ASKO models, the standard 24inch machines W60000 series capacity is:
US rating is 2.2cu ft = 4kg capacity
Euro rating = 6kg capacity

Your LG WM2501HVA machine is rated at 4.2cu ft capacity yet that table would confirm it at
US rating = 8kg capacity
Euro rating = 11kg capacity

Now here is the interesting bit, the GE Energy Star 4.0 cu ft washer is now sold in the UK..I will be road testing it from next week in the distributors training center
US capacity rating is 4.0cu = 7.63kg
Euro rating is 10kg capacity

Many 10kg FL machines are 24inches wide
The LG Euro machine rated at 11kg is 24 inches wide
What we where simply asking is why the rating conversions differ?? and that it is possible to wash 8 - 11kg loads in a Euro style 24 inch capacity machine.



chestermikeuk++2-20-2011-06-07-33.jpg
 

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