What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy

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"I MAY consider washing all that together, but I wouldn't even think of drying all that together. Everything would dry unevenly."

Yup in a traditional air dryer that would likely be the case. With a good condenser dryer (popular in Europe) it seems to work fine on Mixed Fabrics. Many in EU land also line dry at least some of their items as well.
 
To be truthful, many people don't even own that many jeans so a single person is not likely to have what you consider a full load. I would think most Europeans do not have as many clothes as Americans do.  Appnut, do you wear genuine Dockers or do you wear one of the off brands? 

 

Then there is the issue of the dryer being overloaded:  If the load has any polyester in it at all, the dryer could get so hot that some of the fabric gets burned onto the back of the drum.  I don't know about Westinghouse dryers back then but Frigidaire dryers are based on that dryer and they get hot as hll.  Of course, that might no be a problem with all cotton jeans, or in Europe where there is less polyester.  I don't know if they ever went through a disco phase in the 70s with John Travolta dancing in a white polyester suit. 
 
bob, some are actual Dockers and other brands acquired from Academy, Sams, Dillards, Wallyworld.  Not from Target.  Target seems to have an aversion to anything that's wrinkle free cotton pants, at least in my small store. 
 
I would never do that large of a load in my FL machine.   Funny, I cleaned out my closet a week ago, and had lots of jeans too. I  tossed stuff that had not been worn in some time in the wash.  Not dirty, just been there for a year or two.  I wear 34x36 jeans and I have possibly 18 of them.  I'd put maybe a max of 8 in the Duet FL at one time.  I don't believe in stressing the machine that much, wet jeans are heavy.  Why stress the machine to save a bit of water and power?
 
For my "daily driver"front loads,mah3000 neptune and splendide combomatic
(2002,antonio merloni mfg),i just stuff the clothes in until i am about
to the center of the drum or just above-i like the clothes to tumble and
drop with some force to get them clean,if it is overloaded and the clothes
mostly just rotate dipping in and out of the water i feel they won't be
washed as effectivly..
For work i fix motors,generators,gearboxes and other industrial machinery-
much of it from gravel pits,mines and other extremely dirty locations so
my clothes get really dirty,but always come out clean loaded about to drum
center.
 
Ok, I've waited all day for my PC to be functioning to add to this....and I may regret it, but here goes...

Firstly, I don't for a moment believe that anyone here is intentionally wasteful. We choose to do things a particular way because it suits us, our family or our time frames.

Secondly, the question I raised a couple of weeks ago and on another post recently was about USABLE drum volume/capacity....I was trying to find out a comparison between the CU FT and KG measurments.

Myself and every other person who previously commented that owns a European style machine has been trying to say this:

- European style machines (and I include every Asian made non-American market specific ones here too) are DESIGNED and INTENDED to be filled right to the top of the wash basket......that is what constitutes a 'Full Load'

- There is a belief, generally, that American 'large capacity' machines do not have the ability to be filled in the same manner as a European machine and to wash to an appropriate standard. This would seem to be confirmed by the comments above with people saying 'I would split that load' etc....

- Consumer magazines test to a country specific standard. Normally, test loads consist of a mix of different shapes and sizes of cotton fabric to represent sheets, towels, clothing etc. When filled with these items in a particular way, the resulting weight is the 'capacity'. Some are easier to fill to this weight of dry cotton cloth than others.

 

- Good try with the jeans 3Belt, but a mixed load of differing sized items is what is needed plus scales should be on a hard surface, not on another appliance.... ;) 

- In Australia, when our Consumer Magazine test machines, they are FILLED to their stated capacity (in KG) in the manner above. The mix of items will vary depending on stated capacity, but will be the same for all machines of the same stated capacity.

- American made machines have historically been shown, in this country at least, to overstate what they will hold. 'Choice' famously published a photo of either a Whirlpool or Maytag 'filled' to the stated capacity (in KG) - the lid was up at 45 degrees with the test load billowing out!

- Matt posted a table in a previous post that 3Belt provided a few months ago. These are the weights that the US Government (I think...it could be your consumer magazine) state that a machine should wash for a given CT FT capacity:

Container volume Test load
cu. ft.¡Ý< liter¡Ý< lb kg
0-0.80 0-22.7 3.00 1.36
0.80-0.90 22.7-25.5 3.50 1.59
0.90-1.00 25.5-28.3 3.90 1.77
1.00-1.10 28.3-31.1 4.30 1.95
1.10-1.20 31.1-34.0 4.70 2.13
1.20-1.30 34.0-36.8 5.10 2.31
1.30-1.40 36.8-39.6 5.50 2.49
1.40-1.50 39.6-42.5 5.90 2.68
1.50-1.60 42.5-45.3 6.40 2.90
1.60-1.70 45.3-48.1 6.80 3.08
1.70-1.80 48.1-51.0 7.20 3.27
1.80-1.90 51.0-53.8 7.60 3.45
1.90-2.00 53.8-56.6 8.00 3.63
2.00-2.10 56.6-59.5 8.40 3.81
2.10-2.20 59.5-62.3 8.80 3.99
2.20-2.30 62.3-65.1 9.20 4.17
2.30-2.40 65.1-68.0 9.60 4.35
2.40-2.50 68.0-70.8 10.00 4.54
2.50-2.60 70.8-73.6 10.50 4.76
2.60-2.70 73.6-76.5 10.90 4.94
2.70-2.80 76.5-79.3 11.30 5.13
2.80-2.90 79.3-82.1 11.70 5.31
2.90-3.00 82.1-85.0 12.10 5.49
3.00-3.10 85.0-87.8 12.50 5.67
3.10-3.20 87.8-90.6 12.90 5.85
3.20-3.30 90.6-93.4 13.30 6.03
3.30-3.40 93.4-96.3 13.70 6.21
3.40-3.50 96.3-99.1 14.10 6.40
3.50-3.60 99.1-101.9 14.60 6.62
3.60-3.70 101.9-104.8 15.00 6.80
3.70-3.80 104.8-107.6 15.40 6.99
Notes: (1) All test load weights are bone dry weights.

Using the above scale...a 4.40 CU FT machine would have a test load of about 8.1 KG.

 

Hoover sell a machine in Europe that is 40cm (16") wide that will take an 8KG load - thats the same amount that a 4.40CU FT machine would be expected to wash in the US!

 

- My comments previously in respect to the above table have been that....my machine here is rated at 6.5KG and would be tested at that capacity by our consumer magazine and European ones. This means that, in our market (and Europe) it is expected to perform to the equivalent of a US 3.55CU FT machine even though in the US it would be rated at about 2.20 - 2.50 CU FT. 

 

- Before anyone bleats about cycle times being shorter in the US, I run my machine on the 'Quick Cotton 40c' cycle filled...just over an hour. The standard cycle is just short of 2hrs.

- The ability of a machine to actually WASH a given load has no relevance at all to dryer capacity. The majority of the world don't own them and those that do own them outside of North American, tend not to use them all the time. Plus, it wasn't the point of the question...Washer capacity and the ability to wash a 'full to the brim' load is.
 
And let me say this. When I bought my compact Bosch machines, I bought them new and when the nice guys at Lowe's left and I opened the plastic packet with all the waranty info stuff, etc, there was a two-page owner's manual. It didn't really tell me much except for laundry pound limits. I couldn't find anything on the web either under the Bosch site. I would get on the bathroom scales and pick up laundry until I had surpassed my weight with the laundry weight load. I figured out it did better if I didn't do all towels or all jeans, but a combination of large and small items. I had to change my thinking because I was used to traditional large capacity American machines. Also, another thing I had to get used to was how long it took for it to complete entire wash cycle. Being high efficiency, it would stop and add a little more water and sometimes stop and add a little more. It was a practice patience for me. We were having an extreme drought her in SC back in the summer 2008 when I bouht them and I liked the fact this model didn't use much water. Also, they're very small and don't take up much space. The dryer is ductless and I don't think I will ever do that again. I have to be careful to keep up the maintenance on the dryer and keep the lint traps cleaned out. The last two times Mr. appliance repairman, aka Mr. Big Hands came out he told me it was very vary important with the ductless dryer to keep all the lint cleanded out at all times. He said I didn't want my house to burn down. The other thing is it heats the kitchen up.
 
Capacity

I think we are just trying to work out from the testing table above what is a perceivable equivalent KG capacity...

Take the ASKO models, the standard 24inch machines W60000 series capacity is:
US rating is 2.2cu ft = 4kg capacity
Euro rating = 6kg capacity

Your LG WM2501HVA machine is rated at 4.2cu ft capacity yet that table would confirm it at
US rating = 8kg capacity
Euro rating = 11kg capacity

Now here is the interesting bit, the GE Energy Star 4.0 cu ft washer is now sold in the UK..I will be road testing it from next week in the distributors training center
US capacity rating is 4.0cu = 7.63kg
Euro rating is 10kg capacity

Many 10kg FL machines are 24inches wide
The LG Euro machine rated at 11kg is 24 inches wide
What we where simply asking is why the rating conversions differ?? and that it is possible to wash 8 - 11kg loads in a Euro style 24 inch capacity machine.


http://www.thewashingmachineplace.c...arch.Object=1&machine.Type=200&manuf.id=13486
chestermikeuk++2-20-2011-06-07-33.jpg
 
Capacity v Need or How You Actually Use It

I think with any new appliance making its way into an existing long standing market sector there will be issues, confusion and failed expectations... - along with many people who will
"Love their New Machines"

I do think the Energy Star features and low water levels have compounded the issue along with capacity and loading...A lot of videos on the web show extra large capacity machines underloaded with people experiencing spin balance problems, so my question is I wonder if peoples requirements are being met in the department stores selling the machines...and the info available from the manufacturers etc...

A front loading cylinderical drum washing machine works best when the Tub is at filled to designed capacity, Not underloaded, The drum is able to spin with an even layer of clothing distributed around the drum...so...Mixed loads of different cloth sizes can help. If washing large absorbent items (bathrobes bath mats) 2 or 3 are better than one as the drum needs to have an even layer to spin.. This is ever so important as now most new machines rely on sophisticated electronics and sensitive OOB systems...older mechanical machines usually cope better than todays more flimsey made cheaper machines.

When I disuss requirements with customers they are very surprised when I start asking how they use their machines now...usually they just want the Biggest Capacity & Fastest Spin
My Reccomendations would be (IMHO)
Single Person average laundry, no mega items, load seperation, requirement average = 5 - 6kg
Single person, no load seperation, bung it all in loads, occasional large items = 7kg
Couples, average laundry, load seperation, whites, lights, darks = 7 kg
Couples & small family, average laundry, load seperation and the occasional large items wash (Bed throws i.e. your comforters, sleeping bags, small rugs,Duvets etc)= 8 - 9kg
Large familys / households, big seperation loads, bung it all in loads, lots of large items regularly washed = 9 - 11kg

Of course this only a good discussion start point, we do get a singles buying 11kg and fill them then switch on to wash when full, and families with three young kids with a 6kg machine as they wash every day at max capacity and that works for them!!! Its all about WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU!!!

The best sellers at TWMP are the 7kg 1400rpm spin machines,
 
Thank you for this information. You have been a big help. I will make sure it's filled to the top from now on. That will actually cut down the time it takes to get my weekly wash done. Now, I have to change my thinking.

Thanks again!
 
Bob/Appnut:

I have mostly Dockers and some off brands.  I notice Dockers have a better fit but the off brands have some polyester in them and keep the color better and fewer wrinkles. 

 

The reason I bring it up I am changing the subject is that if you are wearing a 40 waist your body mass index (BMI) is putting you at risk for diabetes and heart problems.  I am 5'11" and have a 36 inch waist and my BMI could be better too. 

 

So I have been hiking in the woods, climbing up a hill in our neighborhood where I sing the "Mass of the Shepherds as sung by Alpine mountaineers" and I going to start the masters swimming again.  I also started to life by brother's weights.  And I have listened to my brother-in-law  and "Dump that Quik out!".

 

So Bob, I think you need to get in the water.  I find that men with beards look nice when they are swimming.  Remember, you are swimming for your life!
 
Retromania, thank you.  Please divide load that big

 

Having an overloaded washer is kind of like having an overcrowded high school as BH has.  When the place is packed full of people, a lot are not going to learn as much as if it were less packed.  overload a washer and you are taking a chance you won't like the results.
 
Dont Be....

You still have the bosch machines?? sort your laundry into cottons, synthetics, delicates..cottons and some robust synthetics I will combine!!

Sort by Whites, light colours and darks,and they usually determine temperature, hot, warm & cool...

Then pick up your load and place in into the drum, fill the drum so you can on a

cotton load, place your arm in the top over the clothes, or
synthetics, man made fabrics, no more than 3/4 of the drum
Delicates, woollens, 1/4 op half drum

Then select your programme and use correct measurment of powder, & press go!!!

Dont be afraid to experiment, my loads washes consist of three piles, whites, lights & darks, with a mix of sizes, most of the time I use cotton type programme and adjust the temperature and spin speed, (mainly 40d warm & fast spin). If you do regularly sort your laundry, you will find you have smaller loads than full capacity, not to worry, the machines uses less resources accordingly!!

chestermikeuk++2-20-2011-10-35-56.jpg
 
I don't wash loads that full because they dryer can't handle it. Everything comes out wrinkled as hell......Dry, but wrinkles......Smaller loads come out of the dryer fine. I guess I could just separate the load and dry it like that, but I don't. I only wash about four loads per week anyway.......Some weeks eight loads........
 
dryer loads and wrinkles

Mark,

 

that's why the guidelines say for wrnkle-free and similar garments, as Mike points out too, only 3/4 full.  I consider all clothing that's worn on the outside to be treated as such--even jersey shorts & t-shirts.  Only undergarments, towels are loads that get the "full" treatment. 
 
No, Dockers are not jeans they are the casual pants made by Levi Strauss and Co.  They have the label in the back.  But there are also some "off brands" that have a label like Dockers do.  I think all of my pants have a label.  Here's a Dockers commercial when they came out in the 80s.
 
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I like this commercial because I like the parkour moves he does that I wish I could do.

Macy's has the best selection of Dockers in our area, I also find them at Kohls and Sears.

Doesn't he look like Spencer on "Criminal Minds"?[this post was last edited: 2/20/2011-17:25]
 
I know, isn't parkour neat? I try to do some moves like 2 steps at a time and run along a curb and over a rail but at my age I have to be careful and I can't do the flips he does. If I do rolls, I will sink in the mud this time of the year. So I will have to buy a pair of Dockers like he has. Regular running just seems so boring.

There are Dockers that are made of denim material but they have the internal pockets and are styled as pants and not jeans. I think they have Dockers cargo pants now too, but I have not seen them.

So do you have Dockers or do you have mostly off brands?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Volume vs weight

Hi All,

I have been following this thread with great interest. I wanted to scan my very old 1960s Miele laundry brochure which featured both their top loaders with agitator (yes Miele did make them) as wringers as well as their front loaders but it has gone missing :(
Anyway from memory this is what the Miele philosophy between the two systems was:
The top loader with agitator needed 15 litres per kg of washing so the laundry could move around freely and be washed properly. So a toploader with a drum volume of 90 litres could handle 6kg of dry laundry.
With a front loader the principle is similar, but because of no agitator the machines weight to volume ratio changes to 10 litres per kg of washing.
I think many consumers of front loaders as well as top loaders are being taken for a ride. Yes, they can hold and wash their claimed capacity, but many manufacturers are just putting in more in the same space and extending wash times to compensate. Many wash programmes for the energy and water label are exceeding 4 hours in frontloaders! I think there is going to be a modification to the AUS standard to state a maximum wash time of no longer than 3 hours. This change in the future may see ratings on the same drum volume decrease as they may not be able to meet the cleaning requirement in a lesser time, so lowering the load size would be the only option, otherwise they would need to increase energy and water consumption.
Therefore the traditional 15 litres and 10 litres per kg of washing doesn't apply anymore.
In Australia and in Europe manufacturers are using the same drum volume and rating it at different capacities. A 50 litre drum is being rated up to 7kg and a 78 litre drum up to 11kg. All they are doing in this scenario is dropping the ratio to 7 litres per kg.
What the DOE is doing in the US is to standardise this ratio somewhat, but are not distinguishing the volume to weight ratio of the different systems.
If they did the same in Europe with drum volume it would be a similar story. I think all manufacturers of front loaders should state the rated volume in litres as well as its claimed capacity. This would give more transperancy to the consumer, like in the US.
With the new energy label in Europe, Miele has changed the Cottons programme to make it more energy efficient, but in doing so has had to increase the cycle time by 40 minutes. So now a Cottons 60 degree programme for 8kg takes 2 hours 59 minutes instead of 2 hours 19 minutes.
So you can see it is a real balancing act to get the right ratios of time, water and energy consumption to get your clothes clean.
Cheers
Rod
 
big splendide load

i tried a larger load in my euro-size,italian made,splendide combomatic 6100
washer is rated for 11 lb,and though i do not know the weight of the load-
3pr 32x36 jeans,about 4 t-shirts,misc undies and socks;running this larger
than usuall load did not bother the washer in the least,tumbling did not
look as effective and the drain water was not as dirty as i was expecting
for the moderatly dirty load...clothes did seem to be decently clean though
it is hard to tell exactly how clean they are VS my usuall loading habits..
BTW that larger load had the drum loaded about 3/4 full.
 
I think when I read an LG user manual, it stated for the new Cold Clean cycle, the load size should not be more than 8 pounds.  that's about 1/2 the machine full as a rough estimate, if not slightly less. 
 
Are NON USA KG specs higher because your clothes are smalle

Above in the thread a comment is made :

Take the ASKO models, the standard 24inch machines W60000 series capacity is:
US rating is 2.2cu ft = 4kg capacity
Euro rating = 6kg capacity

Your LG WM2501HVA machine is rated at 4.2cu ft capacity yet that table would confirm it at
US rating = 8kg capacity
Euro rating = 11kg capacity

maybe folks in out of the usa have smaller clothes and thus they mix better. Ie the average pair of bluejeans worn in Texas is larger than a pair of Blue Jeans worn in Singapore.

Thus maybe the usa spec reflects that our clothes are larger?

It is really easier to wash 16 pairs of blue jeans that weigh 9Kg than 10 pairs that weigh 9Kg. The smaller jeans "mix better" and thus are easier to clean.

Maybe that is the issue of why US and non US specs a so different; there are many folks here that are way larger. When I worked in Singapore and Bangkok; I worked along folks who were in the 70 to 120 Lb range. I was really the tallest person on the factory floor there; but only of average usa height.
 
Are NON USA KG specs higher because your clothes are smaller

Just for the record its my data that you quote above, BUT I certainly didnt type the jeans size wording!!!...LOl

I admire you engineering break downs and think I see where you are coming from, (when I sit back and take time to study the data) but when I looked at that above post am not sure whether you are being serious
or "takin the michael"as we say here???

The question I ask still in above posts is ... Why are equivalant US machines rated a lower KG capacity than equivalent Euro models?? and am not sure thats the answer...LOl

Its all in the detail...somewhere!!!
 

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