What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy

[3beltwesty]

LAWSUITS

If USA washers here moved back to weight specs like what was more common decades ago; some bozo would sue!.

Thus all thus ruckus might have turned up a reason why specs are different. ie tort hell where a maker gets sued.

 

[MrX]

This debate really gets tiresome after a while.

European machine are smaller for one simple reason; Europeans adopted modular kitchens in the 1950s. So, all appliances to be installed in a kitchen or utility room have to be 850mm high, and 595 - 600mm wide to fit into those slots. Or, where appliances like fridges or ovens/hobs (cooktops) are wider, they retain that modular sizing i.e. they'll be 1 unit or 1.5 or 2 units wide. E.g. for a side-by-side fridge European style, we sometimes put in a fridge that's 600mm wide and a freezer that's also the same size next to it.

Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little less obese).

US laundry machines are usually installed free standing in a basement or utility room and do not have to slot-in. So, they don't really seem to care too much what their exact dimensions are as long as they're reasonably similar to the old top loaders.

Loading factors are probably more to do with the fact that North Americans are used to agitator machines. You cannot stuff those full or they don't wash where as horizontal axis drum machines are quite capable of washing with the drum stuffed to capacity as the action is more about pushing water and detergent through the clothes by tumbling than about splashing them around.

I use an 8kg Bosch Logixx machine and it will happily hold about 15 towels without any fuss or a large basket/hamper of dirty laundry.

We stuff it to capacity pretty regularly and it does a great job.

Our dryer's a matching 8kg Bosch and it also handles the clothes without any fuss. Although, you might not want to stuff it too full if you're drying delicates or at least you need to take them out as soon as the buzzer rings to avoid wrinkling.

I just find this repetitive debate about Euro vs US washers gets a bit silly though.
We've different designs of utility rooms and kitchens and a very slightly different evolution of laundry technology.

Having lived in several parts of Europe and several parts of the US, there really isn't a lot of difference in terms of clothes or lifestyle.

The washers are just a tiny bit different, although less and less so as European machines are bigger capacity than they used to be and US machines are now more and more FL.

So, perhaps we're harmonising with the best of both worlds?

 

[3beltwesty]

Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little le

RE "Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little less obese)."

Maybe this is another discovery too!

Here in the USA folks that are larger/bigger/fatter *tend* to buy larger clothes.

If the average European is less obese; do they just still were bigger clothes; ie baggie style?

 

[franksdad]

Why are ya'll obsessed with Dockers? I have some but I prefer my khakis from Eddie Bauer and Columbia. I love Eddie Bauer. I buy 99% of my pants from The GoodWill Store. No need to pay $45.00 for a pair of Columbia pants when you can get them at GoodWill for $4.25.

And, for the record, I wash about four or five pairs of jeans or khakis per load. I divide my laundry by type of clothing, then by whites, light colored, "gray matter" and dark coloreds. I wear a lot of charcoal gray polo shirts and t-shirts and cotton shorts. I think the charcoal color looks nice with my salt and pepper hair and beard. I also love blues from sky to robin to lapis and navy. I wash my sheets separately and put ONE queen fitted, one queen flat, and four pillowcases per load. Y fronts and unmentionables constitute a small load and the towels are washed separately with about three loads per week.

 

[franksdad]

And jeans

I've bought every pair but one pair of my Levi's from GoodWill for the last six or seven years. I wear Levi's 550. They fit me the best. Can't wear Lee jeans or Wrangles jeans. They don't come up far enough over my fat @$$. I can "do' Arizona jeans in a pinch - if I find some at GoodWill.

 

[dj-gabriele]

I wash my sheets separately and put ONE queen fitted, one qu

Do you own Barbie's washing machine?

I can fit twice of that in my washer and it's only 5 kg (or 1,5 cubic feet)

 

[paulc]

Neptunebob

No, I don't own any dockers. I usually wash six pair of jeans at a time, I could fit more in but they tend to crease badly.

 

[franksdad]

Do you own Barbie's washing machine?

No, I'm just anal. aka anal retentive, that is. )

BTW I have a 2008 BOSCH Nexxt Premium washer and dryer in platinum. Jim

 

[franksdad]

BTW I have a 2008 BOSCH Nexxt Premium washer and dryer in pl

Correction. 2007 BOSCH washer and dryer. I went to get a BOSCH dishwasher in 2007 because I was so impressed with the washer and dryer. I ended up with a Whirlpool Gold. This was right after my brother's death. My brother passed away from prostrate cancer in September 2007. I remember a lot of things as BC or AC... before Charlie's death or after Charlie's death. Jim

 

[sudsmaster]

It really does depend on many factors

Even the owner's manual for the Miele 1930 washer clearly states that the maximum recommended load will vary with fabric type and soil load.

 

If you are washing perm press stuff, you do not want to fill the washer to max. Otherwise you'll get more wrinkling, which sort of defeats the whole perm press concept.

 

Heavily soiled laundry should also be washed at less than max load. It only makes sense. A smaller load will get more wash action and not overload the detergent component as readily.

 

It also depends on how well the washer handles heavy loads on spin.

 

Take my Neptune 7500, for example. When I wash large bulky items like a fiberfill comforter, I can stuff it in there and not have a wash performance or spin problem. But when I wash bath sheets (really big bath towels, I find that the optimum number is five. The washer will handle six or seven, but then it takes forever to balance the load to spin, and usually when it's over five towels I have to halt the spin rebalance process, open the washer, and do some untangling of the towels. Then it will usually spin to max extract OK. But I'd rather not have to deal with that for every load.

 

Smaller items also can be packed to max load, because they don't tangle as much and cause balance problems.

 

The Miele 1930 doesn't seem to have the balance problems that the Neptune can experience, probably because it's not a tilted tub design that tangles some items. I wash small white items (gym socks, underwwear, kitchen towels, etc) exclusively in the Miele, in part because they are generally smaller loads and also because it can boost the temp up to 170F, while the Neptune is limited to 130F. The Miele does an excellent job with these loads, and the 1600 rpm spin speed makes short work of later drying.

 

Anyway, I don't think there are hard and fast rules about what is the optimum load. It varies with the types of items being washed, and with the washer. Also, most all modern front loaders have adaptive water fill, so water/energy waste from washing a smaller load in a bigger washer is somewhat minimized.

 

[3beltwesty]

RE "Heavily soiled laundry should also be washed at less than max load. It only makes sense. A smaller load will get more wash action and not overload the detergent component as readily."

Here I have heard this in the USA since the 1950's, and this philosophy is what we used with our 1947, 1976 Front Load westinghouses.

Several folks in Europe have mentioned on this board that a FL washer needs to be full to wash well; conflicting with my past 50 years of American FL washer usage.

Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries.

With different machines and different water schemes of non usa washers; maybe their machines act differently.

 

[solsburian]

Pic from my Hoover manual...

It can take up to a 6KG load.

 

[favorit]

"Several folks in Europe have mentioned on this board that a FL washer needs to be full to wash well; conflicting with my past 50 years of American FL washer usage.

Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries."

It is based on our experience with those vintage frontloaders filled up to half glass door even on the main wash. I have a vintage Zerowatt in garage that acts like that. Is the best machine to wash wetsuits or towelling BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. They just float and roll over as if they were on a delicate cycle.

Another clue : my mother's Candy SA5 had an half load button (lower water lever) BUT as the motor had a lower load to tumble the drum rotated too fast and it made distributions rather than tumbles. So without actual tumble action there was no stain removal

Chek Norfolk Southern's Zerowatt : not a case it has a true european full load

 

[favorit]

link

to the aforementioned Zerowatt

Indesit? Hotpoint? Candy? I got it, but what is it?

OK, so my buddy the scrapper was out doing his thing, and among the stuff he picked up was this washing machine, a couple old rusted fans, and a dishwasher. More on the dishwasher later. Well, he obviously gets more from me than the metal recycler would give him, so I always get first dibs. So...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[haxisfan]

@ Favorit... ineffective half loads...

It wasn't always the case with all models... perhaps with the pre-Candy ones due to their 'higher than average' set tumble speed. My parents 1988 Zerowatt (already Candy in 1985) could wash half loads brialliantly with guaranteed tumble action. The phenomenon you described above would probably occur with a very small load but not with half loads. Perhaps even after entering the Candy group Zerowatt adopted some of its own components... e.g. the drum in the washer I mentioned above is exactly the same as the one in the Zerowatt (Excellence) of your link.

Being aware that lots of people (especially Italians) keep paraising the old Zerowatt appliances for their sturdy construction and the durability of their components but I have good reasons to believe just the opposite: I witnessed a massive improvement in Zerowatt appliances only after they had been absorbed by Candy: I refer to my lifelong experience with this brand since early 70's. I wasn't around then yet, but my grand parents had a Zerowatt FL produced in this era which gave the occasional electrical glitch... though it couldn't be blamed as much as it was kept in a very damp place, however, after 4 or 5 years it had to have a new timer control mechanism. My parents had a 1976 Zerowatt (cosmetically similar to my grand parents' one but with a slightly faster spin speed) and it had a repair for something or another every couple of years... with the most recurrent failure being the bearings. It gave up the ghost after 12 years with a burn out motor and a collapsed drum spider (it's still kept in a garage... as an antique object d'art). My aunt had the exact same washer which she bought a year later... she never complained for its cleaning abilities and she managed somehow to make it last 20 odd years only thanks to countless sets of bearings and 3 whole outer tubs!

My parents bought another Zerowatt after that in 1988 (the one aforementioned) which has been fairly reliable throughout the years and it's still as ready as ever to takle the toughest and fullest load of laundry you can imagine: it's had a number of drain pumps during the course of its life, a few door seals and a new set of drum bearings (when it was about 12 years of age), yet I wouldn't feel like judging such repair record mercilessly considering the fact that 'it' (or should I say 'she') punctually carried out a boilwash once or twice a week (as well as other easier wash loads with the least impact on its components).

Only a few months ago, she (the Zerowatt) finally obtained a part-time job... having pleaded with my parents for letting me have it in exchange for my modern Indesit washer-dryer which b.t.w. broke down during this period requiring a new PCB. I said 'part-time' as I will be using the Zerowatt only when I got to see my parents a couple of weeks twice a year.

I included a 10 minute clip below of a 3/4 wash load in this oldish Zerowatt (1988) where the half load function had been selected... I will test it with less clothes somewhen in future. The first 5 minutes of the clip shows a load of clothes washed in the Indesit washer dryer (now my parent's) as I wanted to test both washers for their ability to clean a load of laundry using cold water enabled washing detergents.

 

[3beltwesty]

my USA old reasons for old FL washers are similar to the UK

Here with some items that are real super dirty; I have always tended to have the machine say 1/3 to 2/3 rds full, never chock full.

The reasons here are that one has a safety factor, one was too getting a better chance of cleaning; than a full load that is crammed real full .

*****ie I never really heard of:

"BUT it does not clean properly an half load of very soiled table clothes /kitchen towels. Half loads don't tumble cause there's too much water. "

****** until I came to this washing machine website.

Most of my experience is with FL washing is my older 1976 3 belt westy; which has an oval potato pulley that varies the wash speed between 52 to 62rpm. The only real effect of varying the load is the average rpm drops slightly with more load; the motor is just a dumb 1800 rpm AC induction motor. This rpm is such with its 22" diameter that items drop back into the wash water; they do not stay at the other radius

Here with say a weekends worth of dirty pants and tshirts to work on the car, roof or truck I typically wash these as one wash load; even if the machine is 1/3 full.

I do not "wait" and save up like greasy dirty items and then wash them 2 months or 3 months later "when the machine is full". There are several reason why. Stains set with time . I also would not want to add church white shirts in the same load as some greasy bluejeans and "hope" that it worked; I was not raised to roll the dice.

Thus often here in the USA some folks purposely do not do the "lets fill the washer to its max gambit" .

we often do not want stains to set, we often do not want to mix 30 dollar new white shirts with 50 cent thrift store bluejeans full of axle grease, we often do not want colors to bleed on white items.

The added "waste" of washing a 1/2 load cannot even be measured in our budgets, our machines often do what well at 1/2 loads too.

 

[3beltwesty]

This is what our 1947 and 1976 westinghouse FL manuals prea

This UK comment is what my family found out with USA FL westys

Since folks here differ on opinions, the washers design must be a factor; or ones stance too.

 

[chestermikeuk]

The Westy

doesnt have variable speed control does it?? just the potato pully, so if you wash cottons, does it fill to low level??

and if you wash synthetics / man made/ /delicates then the water level is higher??

so if the water level is high there is less chance of them being lifted out of the water with a small load!!

The older UK / & Euro machines just had two water levels, so unless you used the HALF LOAD button on a small cotton load, you would get a less vigerous, more delicate wash

The beauty of todays UK machines is that they take the ammount of water required for the load inside & the programme selected, so its save save every load (providing you have filled the drum to optimum load setting for fabric being washed & you have selected the correct wash programme)

I used a potato pulley westy at the last convention, great machine, our English Electric is its decendant!!

 

[3beltwesty]

Thw Westys added a variable control on the last models

Westinghouse somewhere about 1988? dropped the 3 belt system and used a DC torquer motor controlled by an electronic speed control.

This system basically dropped the complex, many little parts, mechanical transmission and used one belt and a motor that could be controlled/programmed.

The tub was the similar (different sump for new pump) ; the spin basket was the same size but the shaft not was not replaceable, ie the drum can rotate either way. This was used from about say 1988? to about 1992/3 ? ish. ie until America "rediscovered" the FL washer!

Both the roughly 3 belt 1962 to 1988 and Torquer 1988 to 1993 models look similar; and use the same door boot; same door. Unless one looked at the "controls" one cannot really the difference.

The pump is different on the older variant; it is driven off the drive motor.

The 3 belt model I have here from 1976 has a fully manual water level control. One just sets it where you want to for the clothes being washed. The door is spring loaded and has a scale. One can weight the clothes as an aid for the water level setting. ie "weigh to save" .

My old 1976 westy really as two cycles; I need to posty an image to show the dials settings
On the non potato belt newer westy; the motor and control ; I think was originally German. Here is what the motor looks like in the link:

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[franksdad]

Dockers

I'm a natural fiber guy. I don't "do" polyester.