What Really is Full Load for a washer? Philosophy

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Well what about the Dockers? Would they be the smaller sizes than in the US? Do they have them in England too? Oh wait, I don't think they have them in Scotland because they sing about having no pants!

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US machines have lower Department of Energy standard that only assures a minimum load capacity per cubic foot of stated space.

EU machines have a test per load to determine max load.

LG machines have an (across the board?) dry linen minimum capacity of 10kg.

That's what I took from this thread and research into the difference between loading.
 
Random Comments from the view point of Joe and Jane in Anywh

(1) KG is NEVER USED HERE with washers; but BASKETS is more common; If one polled folks of all walks of life in the USA, steet homeless to Phd; about none has ever heard of Kg's used for washer capacity.

Probably a greater percentage of folks in the UK, OZ or SA rate washers with Firkens as volume; or stones as mass.

Marketing washers with Kg is non existant in the USA.

Gobs of folks sort dirty clothes into baskets by type and color and wash when the basket is full and or then are out of clothes.



(2) DRYERS as far as dryers; the vast majority of folks who have a washer in the USA have a dryer too. In more rural areas some folks use cloths lines; some it cites do too. One cannot here in many big cities hang laundry to dry on the open porch of a giant apartment building liker folks do in some overseas cities; ie one gets evicted. Ie my apartment I lived in California had rules against this thing that one agreed to in the rental agreement. Many of us who own dryers here WILL on a weekend use a clothes line on a sunny day for big items to dry at our houses. Here this is mostly with blankets, bluejeans, rugs, big heavy stuff.

(3) NON USA folks are maybe smaller?? ; thus your items mix better??. The 16 Pairs of jeans I washed were mostly 32 to 34 waist and about 36 in length; probably average to small here in width a bit longer in length. One has gobs of folks in the USA that are obese; it think double ie 300Lbs. Thus in an oddball sense those 16 pairs of jeans might be like only 8 Giant persons; or 24 + pairs in Singapore.

Without getting into a tangent as to WHY; many folks items here are way bigger than my own stuff. There are folks whose whole DNA and stuff is all large here . ie the Potato Family drives a giant trucks ; their clothes are triple X T shirts; they are "overweight" by more than a typical Asian weighs; all their things and kids are husky sized. This has to have some bearing; ie their stuff is all giant sized; washer, dryer, clothes, trucks, refrigerator. ie one has a family of mom and dad and 2 kids and their mass is over 1000 Lbs. ie one is at the grocery store and the aisles are so tight that 2 carts/trolleys barely can pass!. ie one cannot pass Mr or Miss Potato Family in the aisle since each person is wider than the trolley.

(4) RE "American made machines have historically been shown, in this country at least, to overstate what they will hold. "

Here I only heard this after seeing this website. When I was in Japan, Singapore, Germany and New Zealand the washers I used there were smaller and held less stuff. Thus my take is this is really wild marketing claims to sell washers there and not real science. I have really never seen TV, or printed Advertising here in the USA that compares washers or mowers to non usa ones.

One of the Miele non us sites claims their machine washes 50 percent more than an American machine. The actual few 24" machines sold in the USA are smaller in size and wash less clothes, that is why the market is basically zero. Even if a Miele 24" FL machine here with pure magic can wash as much stuff as a normal 27" machine; the average person is not going to believe it based on a non usa machine; or non usa test.

On the Flip side non usa folks live and breath 24" washers; thus they can improve this form factor to the nth degree.

Joe and Jane Public here have never seen a 24" machine before. Thus this argument has no end. The average user of a washer in the USA uses a dumb basket of dirty stuff to wash as a measure and thus wants a machine to physically hold the same as the old washer.

A machine with a physically smaller drum has already a mark against it in the USA. ie folks were NOT taught to to cram stuff in a washer to be full. thus if the smaller machine really holds as much as a 27" one one has a vast education to do. Thus to sell a magical 24" machine that washes as much as a 27" machine; the average Joe wants to see solid proof. It really is a tall order; non usa folks constantly mention Kg's. Nobody here normally weighs clothes; they use a darn basket as a metric. Thus somebody here can be Joe Metric and the Kg ratings are meaningless.

(5) PRICE and Availability ; most USA folks buy locally..Many folks here just want to wash clothes and price matters. I bought the LG on sale last fall for 599 bucks. It was just an average washer here. The floor models were 3.2 to 5.2 and I got a 4.2 IEC one. It can wash 11Kg worth of stuff and is just a normal washer size. The non sale models were only 4.0 and had less featuresreleddoielsThe smaller models available locally cost less; but have less features. Ie the 249 dollar but IEC top loader was a 3.2 IEC size; But I did not want a starter basic top loader that uses a lot more water. The Front load 3.2 IEC small model on sale for 349 dollars had bad reviews.

Here I am not sure what the real answer is. There are so many variables. Even if has no meaning to others; here I still "like" to know what the actual displacement is of my lawnmower or washer.
 
(1) Nice dodge on LG and their across the board greater than 10kg guarantee.

What do we care about john or jane q public thinks about metric measures? If a machine is engineered to greater than 10kg it dosen't matter if you use metric or standard it is what it has been engineered to.

We have americans on this very board with US brand machines that cannot wash even less than you jean load with the same or bigger machines. Thankfully we also have some US users with machines that can.
 
I gotta ask a "stupid" question here.  Does volume and density of a garment/fabric have an impact on how much one can get into a machine?  Seems to me, I can get less of my thickest towels in as a load in my Fridgemore than I can with bath towels which ar not nearly as fluffy/bulky.  The thicker garments take up more amount in the machine.  Just like thick sweatshirts and swetpans, I cannot get as many in as I can say, poly/cotton no-iron long sleeve shirts or dress pants. 
 
Yes It Does

Eleven pounds of "thick and thirsty" bath towels and wash cloths are going to be much less in number than an equal weight of items made from thinner material.

The thicker and or denser a textile, in general the more water it will absorb, this in turn increases the weight.

Though many washing machine owner's manuals from past and present would give the "average" weight of items needed to make up a load, it has long been known how full the tub is gives a better indicator.

Many a poor front loader has dashed itself to bits trying to spin wash loads that are simply too heavy. Far to many consumers do not use common sense, and all there hear is "you can load the machine until it's full.....".

Or, people figure that one little ole quilt cannot weigh that much, and load the thing either by itself (not a good idea), or add several heavy towels. Quilts and other vintage linens become *very* heavy when wet, and once the machine starts to spin often you hear a loud *CRASH*. That lovely sound is caused by the drum attempting to spin whilst out of alingment caused by heavy weight on one side of the tub. This can damage shocks, concrete or other counter-weights, bearings, drive belts and lots of other things.
 
(Neptunebob) No Dockers here.

(Appnut) RE "I gotta ask a "stupid" question here. Does volume and density of a garment/fabric have an impact on how much one can get into a machine? "

I think this has a lot to do with it. What type of clothes folks wear around the world varies.

(Pingpeep) RE "What do we care about john or jane q public thinks about metric measures? If a machine is engineered to greater than 10kg it dosen't matter if you use metric or standard it is what it has been engineered to. "

Here when I bought the LG WM2501HVA last fall I never saw any weight references of what it will hold; Ie what non usa folks seem to worship, live and breath as holy. Such a reference is non existent when one researches a purchase. That is why I purposely ran a test with weight as a variable; ie loads of 24, 16 and 2 Lbs; the variable non usa folks dwell on as important.

If one does an exhaustive local look at locally sold washers and does web exhasutive web research; about non have any reference to the variable non usa folks worship as holy; ie weight. Thus about all of those 100 Maytag, Whirlpool,GE, Samsung, LG, Amana, Fridgiare, Electrolux, Sears etc washers have no specs on the non usa spec of weight.

One can reverse the comment and state too why would a USA washer customer care about Kg's too; a spec that is not mentioned in the 100 washers Joe and Jane just looked at.

If a non USA person who worships washer Kg specs is transfered to Kansas City Mo; he too can do the exhaustive research of 100 local washers and may never find thee holy spec of Kg that he/she wants.
 
Come on 3belwesty even LG's site for their washers lists kg under the specifications tab for any of the newest washers. Some of those are 12 months or older since release. It is also included on the downloadable spec sheet pdf (page 2).

 

 

So LG took a global initiative and brought it to the US.

Sorry that you missed it.

 

Here's a link to one on their US site.

Anything after Jan 2010 has a minimum 10KG spec most are >10.1kg.

 

BTW: I've seen >10KG dry linen capacity on LG sell sheets and product boxes when I was in NY state too. So it's not just on the web but in dealers too.

 

While John and Jane Q public may adore IEC equivalent cubic feet (not bloody likely) we both know that commercial laundry equipment more often than not lists LB or KG or both.

 

Is there any other commercial laundry maker that is more American than Dexter?
 
/wow my state must be odd ball. Sears lowes and all other stores have 24" machines on floor to look at. I order my washer and most other items online and never went to look at them. But my washer 24". I load it to the top drum full as can be. Not overloaded at all.

I do my wash when needed if the machine is not full I wait it out. Saves time to do ! full load and be done with it.

new ge was online for 634.00 in home depot it was 749.00. My frig 10cu ft online 499.00 in store at sears lg 699.00 It is the tall slim unit Width: 23 1/2". Height: 67 5/8" It holds more then a 18cu ft frig I replaced. I never went to look at it also. I read about and order it.

Only thing I never seen in any shop here is a portable dishwasher. So order mine online and would order aging.
 
UK Machines

Maybe the UK machines are rated at higher capacity because they are 220v machines compared to our 110v here in the States.

 

Malcolm
 
I think....

it comes down to wash times. In the EU we are used to longer wash times. People in the US are used to short wash times in a T/L. US F/L machines have to show they can wash quick and well otherwise they won't sell. We in the EU can cram our machines full as we know in 2 hours our wash will be clean. In the US if you cram a F/L machine full you will not get the same results in 50mins.
 
Re KG specs to a USA buyer

(PING) RE "Come on 3belwesty even LG's site for their washers lists kg under the specifications tab for any of the newest washers. Some of those are 12 months or older since release. It is also included on the downloadable spec sheet pdf (page 2)."

For the LG washers that were available locally last fall like my WM2501HVA HVW; Lg lists no specs in Kgs of clothes washed.

Locally I was comparing what I could buy here; NOT Canada or Brazil via mailorder.

Ie the local WM2501HWA, LG WM2350HRC, LG WM2140CW, were on the show floors

LG WM2140CW 4.0 IEC lists a Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg
LG WM2350HRC 4.2 IEC Lists a Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg TODAY
LG WM2501HWA 4.2 IEC Lists no "Dry Linen Capacity"

The PDF's I downloaded from LG before Last Thanksgivings sales had no reference to "Dry Linen Capacity" ; except on the WM2140CW which was not one sale.

Thus I had the "Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg" only on the machine I really was not going to purchase.

Thus the two on sale LG's the LG WM2350HRC LG WM2501HWA / HVA I was really considering had no Kg value via the web or brochures locally.



I actually called up Maytag; GE, LG, Whirlpool etc folks to *ASK* how many Lbs (or Kg) of clothes before last thanksgivings purchase. One might as well as what the capacity is in Blackberrys.

Thus here I did not have an magical way to find out this info that is revised today on the LG WM2350HRC and and still not published yet on the WM2501HWA that I bought and own.

Thus in Nov 2010 one could say the target 4.2 IEC LG WM2501HWA / HVA is sort like a smaller IEC 4.0 LG WM2140CW 4.0 IEC listed a Dry Linen Capacity >10.1 kg

Is this sort of info so hard to provide?.

The not having a reference has one guessing. The "great than" is a weasel bunch of spineless bunk too. is it 11; or 12; or 13; or 15 Kg.?

It is bad enough to have zero info on one's target washer. Then one is suppose to compare this to another that has a smaller IEC; then see the weasel greater than sign?

What if the buyer was not an American and they live in the USA and find these numbers half missing and with "greater than" weasel words?
 
It's better than 29 bath towels (specially designed and of various thicknesses) which the Maytag Maxima will use to describe it's capacity when it launches this summer. A journalist from the EU produced a luggage scale and a bag to put the towels in but the maytag/whirlpool. hired pr people said the towels were unavailable. No weaseling around there.

Also you can bet that LG did that so no one or the states could sue. "So we tested our machines at a weight over min US standards. What's the big deal."

Well 3belt at least you know your machine can handle it.

One day the US market will settle on weight as part of capacity. The wheels just turn slowly.
 
If I was from Europe and my washer DNA was all in Kg; then I would be even more confused If I was living in the USA buying a buying a USA washer.

I think you hit the bullseye with the lawsuit comment.

The USA is a hell hole for torts and lawsuits; thus specs with weasel words are used!
 
LAWSUITS

If USA washers here moved back to weight specs like what was more common decades ago; some bozo would sue!.

Thus all thus ruckus might have turned up a reason why specs are different. ie tort hell where a maker gets sued.
 
This debate really gets tiresome after a while.

European machine are smaller for one simple reason; Europeans adopted modular kitchens in the 1950s. So, all appliances to be installed in a kitchen or utility room have to be 850mm high, and 595 - 600mm wide to fit into those slots. Or, where appliances like fridges or ovens/hobs (cooktops) are wider, they retain that modular sizing i.e. they'll be 1 unit or 1.5 or 2 units wide. E.g. for a side-by-side fridge European style, we sometimes put in a fridge that's 600mm wide and a freezer that's also the same size next to it.

Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little less obese).

US laundry machines are usually installed free standing in a basement or utility room and do not have to slot-in. So, they don't really seem to care too much what their exact dimensions are as long as they're reasonably similar to the old top loaders.

Loading factors are probably more to do with the fact that North Americans are used to agitator machines. You cannot stuff those full or they don't wash where as horizontal axis drum machines are quite capable of washing with the drum stuffed to capacity as the action is more about pushing water and detergent through the clothes by tumbling than about splashing them around.

I use an 8kg Bosch Logixx machine and it will happily hold about 15 towels without any fuss or a large basket/hamper of dirty laundry.

We stuff it to capacity pretty regularly and it does a great job.

Our dryer's a matching 8kg Bosch and it also handles the clothes without any fuss. Although, you might not want to stuff it too full if you're drying delicates or at least you need to take them out as soon as the buzzer rings to avoid wrinkling.

I just find this repetitive debate about Euro vs US washers gets a bit silly though.
We've different designs of utility rooms and kitchens and a very slightly different evolution of laundry technology.

Having lived in several parts of Europe and several parts of the US, there really isn't a lot of difference in terms of clothes or lifestyle.

The washers are just a tiny bit different, although less and less so as European machines are bigger capacity than they used to be and US machines are now more and more FL.

So, perhaps we're harmonising with the best of both worlds?
 
Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little le

RE "Our clothes aren't smaller, (although we are a little less obese)."

Maybe this is another discovery too! :)

Here in the USA folks that are larger/bigger/fatter *tend* to buy larger clothes.

If the average European is less obese; do they just still were bigger clothes; ie baggie style?
 
Why are ya'll obsessed with Dockers? I have some but I prefer my khakis from Eddie Bauer and Columbia. I love Eddie Bauer. I buy 99% of my pants from The GoodWill Store. No need to pay $45.00 for a pair of Columbia pants when you can get them at GoodWill for $4.25.

And, for the record, I wash about four or five pairs of jeans or khakis per load. I divide my laundry by type of clothing, then by whites, light colored, "gray matter" and dark coloreds. I wear a lot of charcoal gray polo shirts and t-shirts and cotton shorts. I think the charcoal color looks nice with my salt and pepper hair and beard. I also love blues from sky to robin to lapis and navy. I wash my sheets separately and put ONE queen fitted, one queen flat, and four pillowcases per load. Y fronts and unmentionables constitute a small load and the towels are washed separately with about three loads per week.
 
And jeans

I've bought every pair but one pair of my Levi's from GoodWill for the last six or seven years. I wear Levi's 550. They fit me the best. Can't wear Lee jeans or Wrangles jeans. They don't come up far enough over my fat @$$. I can "do' Arizona jeans in a pinch - if I find some at GoodWill.
 
I wash my sheets separately and put ONE queen fitted, one qu

Do you own Barbie's washing machine?

I can fit twice of that in my washer and it's only 5 kg (or 1,5 cubic feet)
 
BTW I have a 2008 BOSCH Nexxt Premium washer and dryer in pl

Correction. 2007 BOSCH washer and dryer. I went to get a BOSCH dishwasher in 2007 because I was so impressed with the washer and dryer. I ended up with a Whirlpool Gold. This was right after my brother's death. My brother passed away from prostrate cancer in September 2007. I remember a lot of things as BC or AC... before Charlie's death or after Charlie's death. Jim
 
It really does depend on many factors

Even the owner's manual for the Miele 1930 washer clearly states that the maximum recommended load will vary with fabric type and soil load.

 

If you are washing perm press stuff, you do not want to fill the washer to max. Otherwise you'll get more wrinkling, which sort of defeats the whole perm press concept.

 

Heavily soiled laundry should also be washed at less than max load. It only makes sense. A smaller load will get more wash action and not overload the detergent component as readily.

 

It also depends on how well the washer handles heavy loads on spin.

 

Take my Neptune 7500, for example. When I wash large bulky items like a fiberfill comforter, I can stuff it in there and not have a wash performance or spin problem. But when I wash bath sheets (really big bath towels, I find that the optimum number is five. The washer will handle six or seven, but then it takes forever to balance the load to spin, and usually when it's over five towels I have to halt the spin rebalance process, open the washer, and do some untangling of the towels. Then it will usually spin to max extract OK. But I'd rather not have to deal with that for every load.

 

Smaller items also can be packed to max load, because they don't tangle as much and cause balance problems.

 

The Miele 1930 doesn't seem to have the balance problems that the Neptune can experience, probably because it's not a tilted tub design that tangles some items. I wash small white items (gym socks, underwwear, kitchen towels, etc) exclusively in the Miele, in part because they are generally smaller loads and also because it can boost the temp up to 170F, while the Neptune is limited to 130F. The Miele does an excellent job with these loads, and the 1600 rpm spin speed makes short work of later drying.

 

Anyway, I don't think there are hard and fast rules about what is the optimum load. It varies with the types of items being washed, and with the washer. Also, most all modern front loaders have adaptive water fill, so water/energy waste from washing a smaller load in a bigger washer is somewhat minimized.
 
RE "Heavily soiled laundry should also be washed at less than max load. It only makes sense. A smaller load will get more wash action and not overload the detergent component as readily."

Here I have heard this in the USA since the 1950's, and this philosophy is what we used with our 1947, 1976 Front Load westinghouses.

Several folks in Europe have mentioned on this board that a FL washer needs to be full to wash well; conflicting with my past 50 years of American FL washer usage.

Thus that is why I wonder what the "has to be full" saga is based on in other countries.

With different machines and different water schemes of non usa washers; maybe their machines act differently.
 

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