I have a worker that has several past DWI. The last about 4 years ago and he hurt himself and 2 others. He is now trying to get another car,. If I verify employement he gets it. If I refuse he does not. I dont feel that I can do so as when he hurts or kills himself and others,I do not want to be a part of the cause. He has shown no signs or quitting drinking and only little remorse for what has happened in the past. I was told that it is his life and that if he kills someone that is his problem. Not mine.. What would you do?
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
- Thread starter sudsman
- Start date
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How is he getting to work now? I say if you sign verification and he kills someone, you have blood on your hands. Personally, I say no. He has no remorse, no intention of corecting his life.
It's a dilemma. Technically your responsibility is only to verify employment status ... but under the circumstances ...
I'd hate to be in your position. I think what I'd do is verify employment, but strongly state my reservations based on past and present behavior (more emphasis on present). You've observed him intoxicated on more than one occasion? Socially, or at work? You've heard him state (or infer) that he's not particularly remorseful about the previous accident and not caring if it happens again?
I'd hate to be in your position. I think what I'd do is verify employment, but strongly state my reservations based on past and present behavior (more emphasis on present). You've observed him intoxicated on more than one occasion? Socially, or at work? You've heard him state (or infer) that he's not particularly remorseful about the previous accident and not caring if it happens again?
I agree with DADoES.
Legally, if he works for you, you should probably tell the truth and acknowledge that. If you say he does not work for you, when in fact he does, then you could get in trouble. I think that if you are asked to verify employment, do so, but clearly state your objections.
Who is asking? A financing company, or the state's DMV (or whatever that delightful agency is called in your state)? If it's a financier, ask what your options are for objection. If its the state, ask the same question and state your objections.
Also, ask if can you refuse to answer their question; neither confirming, nor denying his employment. That way, everything you say is 100% the truth and his employment is not confirmed.
Tough situation no matter what you do, thanks for looking out for humanity,
Dave
Legally, if he works for you, you should probably tell the truth and acknowledge that. If you say he does not work for you, when in fact he does, then you could get in trouble. I think that if you are asked to verify employment, do so, but clearly state your objections.
Who is asking? A financing company, or the state's DMV (or whatever that delightful agency is called in your state)? If it's a financier, ask what your options are for objection. If its the state, ask the same question and state your objections.
Also, ask if can you refuse to answer their question; neither confirming, nor denying his employment. That way, everything you say is 100% the truth and his employment is not confirmed.
Tough situation no matter what you do, thanks for looking out for humanity,
Dave
Frankly I think the post is bizarre, and a little scary. If I called you for an employment verification, and you came off with this attitude, I'd think, "You're employing someone (for 4 years or longer?) who you've decided can't be trusted to drive to work? No wait, he's allowed to drive to work, but he can't be trusted to own his own car?"
You're his employer, not his freaking legal guardian. Honestly and with nothing personal intended, you seem to have a false sense of power over this person ("if I refuse he does not", etc). You can't lie in this case, at least legally, and if you refuse to respond he can simply present paycheck stubs or bank statements to verify his employment history.
You're his employer, not his freaking legal guardian. Honestly and with nothing personal intended, you seem to have a false sense of power over this person ("if I refuse he does not", etc). You can't lie in this case, at least legally, and if you refuse to respond he can simply present paycheck stubs or bank statements to verify his employment history.
Any rules about needing insurance in order to own a car in Texas? I doubt this guy could get anybody to insure him so verifying employment may not get him into a car anyway.
<blockquote>Any rules about needing insurance in order to own a car in Texas?</blockquote>Yes. Minimum liability coverage is required by law. Vehicle inspection and automobile license requires proof of insurance.
pturo
New member
Verifying employment to get a loan is not the same as verifing his sobriety, nor is it any way legally attached to you as his employer if he gets drunk and kills someone, under his own car and insurance.
Am I correct, this is an employment check on a loan to finance a car?
There is no way as his employer that you could be tied to his registration or his driving record. It is the bank that is contacting you not the Sheriff's department.
What you morally decide is another matter, but it is not your job to keep him from behind the wheel, it is the law enforcement in your state or city.
Am I correct, this is an employment check on a loan to finance a car?
There is no way as his employer that you could be tied to his registration or his driving record. It is the bank that is contacting you not the Sheriff's department.
What you morally decide is another matter, but it is not your job to keep him from behind the wheel, it is the law enforcement in your state or city.
nmaineman36
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2004
- Messages
- 933
I have to chime in here as well. Legally when a bank contacts you to verify employment all you have to do is say yes AND THATS ALL YOU HAVE TO SAY. Period. Do NOT go into the fact he's a drunk because it will come and bite you hard in the ass and not in a good way. Unless you have a penchant for being sued if the worker ever found out...and the bank will have to disclose that to the person looking for a loan in the reasons why they were denied. You may want to let them know but resist the urge to flap your gums.
The only other way out I see is if you terminate his employment. If your state is like a lot of states where its an "at will" state you dont have to give a reason for termination to the employee...harsh yes I know but thats reality folks.
The only other way out I see is if you terminate his employment. If your state is like a lot of states where its an "at will" state you dont have to give a reason for termination to the employee...harsh yes I know but thats reality folks.
Oh, well, sure, if it's simply an employment verification for a loan, then you must answer truthfully and without any qualifications. The question initially sounds as if it's a law enforcement check to verify sticking with terms of sobriety after the accident, or something similar.
All you're doing is verifying employment, no more, no less.
Brent-Aucoin
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 887
Wow!
If this is really your employee, why would you be so involved with his personal life? If you are his boss, manager, etc... this is totally inappropriate. All that you can do by law is give his employment status, and his salary if they ask for this.
The fun part for him will be when he tries to get insurance.
Don't set yourself up for crazy people crap. If you are in a position of which you described, you should all ready know this.
I have been close to my bosses in the past, but as a professional, I would never indulge such information.
If either you are this persons boss, or friend, either way, you need to seperate from them. They are bad news, and obviously you can't handle the relationship that you have with them.
Keep us informed.
Brent
If this is really your employee, why would you be so involved with his personal life? If you are his boss, manager, etc... this is totally inappropriate. All that you can do by law is give his employment status, and his salary if they ask for this.
The fun part for him will be when he tries to get insurance.
Don't set yourself up for crazy people crap. If you are in a position of which you described, you should all ready know this.
I have been close to my bosses in the past, but as a professional, I would never indulge such information.
If either you are this persons boss, or friend, either way, you need to seperate from them. They are bad news, and obviously you can't handle the relationship that you have with them.
Keep us informed.
Brent
Don't go there....
It is not your place, legally or otherwise, to do anything other than verify employment. For one thing, as stated above, you can get yourself in trouble. Secondly, the car loan people could probably care less if you think he's a drunk. They're there to collect interest on a loan.
And the notion that you would have "blood on your hands" if the guy were to kill someone behind the wheel because you gave an employment verification is nonsense. If you see him getting into his car loaded, then you have an obligation to stop him. Otherwise, his actions are his own.
It is not your place, legally or otherwise, to do anything other than verify employment. For one thing, as stated above, you can get yourself in trouble. Secondly, the car loan people could probably care less if you think he's a drunk. They're there to collect interest on a loan.
And the notion that you would have "blood on your hands" if the guy were to kill someone behind the wheel because you gave an employment verification is nonsense. If you see him getting into his car loaded, then you have an obligation to stop him. Otherwise, his actions are his own.
sdlee
Well-known member
what???????
not your problem to keep him out of a car or from behind a wheel. If you refuse his varification hes gonna get a car by some other means.i wouldnt worry about it and go ahead and make the varification, at least here on this site you know WE all know your hearts in the right place and you were trying to do the right thing.
i think rather than denile of the varification or losing your job or whatever Id make an annmynous call to MADD and maybe even one to this mans family and the peoples familes that he hurt before? Under handed? yes.
his hopping behine the wheel driving drunk and perhaps maiming people underhanded? Yes and deadly besides.
for those of you who think a dealership isnt going to sell a car to a drunk wake up...they are in it for the money
For those of you thinking he wont get insurance...wake up they are in it for the money
for those of you who think he might get something more than liabilty ins beyond the first month of ownership?...wake up...etc.
not your problem to keep him out of a car or from behind a wheel. If you refuse his varification hes gonna get a car by some other means.i wouldnt worry about it and go ahead and make the varification, at least here on this site you know WE all know your hearts in the right place and you were trying to do the right thing.
i think rather than denile of the varification or losing your job or whatever Id make an annmynous call to MADD and maybe even one to this mans family and the peoples familes that he hurt before? Under handed? yes.
his hopping behine the wheel driving drunk and perhaps maiming people underhanded? Yes and deadly besides.
for those of you who think a dealership isnt going to sell a car to a drunk wake up...they are in it for the money
For those of you thinking he wont get insurance...wake up they are in it for the money
for those of you who think he might get something more than liabilty ins beyond the first month of ownership?...wake up...etc.
Sudsman pay no attention to Appnut he is way OUT OF LINE!!!!
Sudsman, you are his BOSS!!! NOT GOD, NOT his PARENT, NOT his GUARDIAN, NOT his KEEPER. If he kills someone you would NOT BE RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY!!!! and I think for Appnut to infer that you would be is a real ROTTEN, SELF RIGHTEOUS, EGOTISTICAL thing to do to you, ecspecially when you are obivously so concerned and are such a caring guy. Your employee's problem is not yours. I say disregard Appnut's comment and listen to the other folks who OBVIOUSLY have more COMMON SENSE. I agree with them it is not worth the trouble it could cause you. AS for you APPNUT, I can not believe you would have the nerve to make such a HEARTLESS, THOUGHTLESS, AND JUST PLAIN ARROGANT comment as the one you made in your post. You need to get over thinking that you are God man because only he can make the kind of judgement on people that you made in your post. I pray God takes pity on your soul for that post dude. Lastly I try not to be judgemental of other people either but Appnut's thoughtless post just makes my blood BOIL!!!!
PAT COFFEY
Sudsman, you are his BOSS!!! NOT GOD, NOT his PARENT, NOT his GUARDIAN, NOT his KEEPER. If he kills someone you would NOT BE RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY!!!! and I think for Appnut to infer that you would be is a real ROTTEN, SELF RIGHTEOUS, EGOTISTICAL thing to do to you, ecspecially when you are obivously so concerned and are such a caring guy. Your employee's problem is not yours. I say disregard Appnut's comment and listen to the other folks who OBVIOUSLY have more COMMON SENSE. I agree with them it is not worth the trouble it could cause you. AS for you APPNUT, I can not believe you would have the nerve to make such a HEARTLESS, THOUGHTLESS, AND JUST PLAIN ARROGANT comment as the one you made in your post. You need to get over thinking that you are God man because only he can make the kind of judgement on people that you made in your post. I pray God takes pity on your soul for that post dude. Lastly I try not to be judgemental of other people either but Appnut's thoughtless post just makes my blood BOIL!!!!
PAT COFFEY
PAT
First he trying to buy a car thru a tote the note place. Banks will NOT loan him anything and he cannot get a car any other way. He rides the bus now. I will not lie. But I DO NOT HAVE TO VERIFY ANYTHING! I DONT HAVE TO GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION FOR ANY REASON IF I DONT WANT TOO.
I AM NOT trying to play GOD I am trying to keep you and your family from getting injured or killed. He has had 4 P I TICKETS IN the last 4 months. Prehaps you would like to meet him driving on the wrong side of the road one evening!
I dont need GODS pity on my soul and for damn sure not yours.
I see 100s injured and killed each day just beacuse someone did not think things thru and others thought they were doing something good by letting such people drive.
First he trying to buy a car thru a tote the note place. Banks will NOT loan him anything and he cannot get a car any other way. He rides the bus now. I will not lie. But I DO NOT HAVE TO VERIFY ANYTHING! I DONT HAVE TO GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION FOR ANY REASON IF I DONT WANT TOO.
I AM NOT trying to play GOD I am trying to keep you and your family from getting injured or killed. He has had 4 P I TICKETS IN the last 4 months. Prehaps you would like to meet him driving on the wrong side of the road one evening!
I dont need GODS pity on my soul and for damn sure not yours.
I see 100s injured and killed each day just beacuse someone did not think things thru and others thought they were doing something good by letting such people drive.
I was hoping not to have to say this, because it's so sa
A couin of mine was hit by a drunken driver when she was driving to her first day of teaching.
Karel did not die. It would have been better, perhaps, if she had. She has been in a Persistant Vegetative State since 1967.
She was intelligent, loving, generous, and inquisitive, all qualities needed for an excellent teacher.
Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. It is clear to me, at least, that this employee of Sudsman does not currently deserve to drive.
Just like chlorine and ammonia, driving and drinking should never mix.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
A couin of mine was hit by a drunken driver when she was driving to her first day of teaching.
Karel did not die. It would have been better, perhaps, if she had. She has been in a Persistant Vegetative State since 1967.
She was intelligent, loving, generous, and inquisitive, all qualities needed for an excellent teacher.
Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. It is clear to me, at least, that this employee of Sudsman does not currently deserve to drive.
Just like chlorine and ammonia, driving and drinking should never mix.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
Sudsman,
Maybe this question's been asked already and I missed it, but what kind of job does this person do? What line of work are you in? Just wondering. If it's confidential then no worries.
Jon
Maybe this question's been asked already and I missed it, but what kind of job does this person do? What line of work are you in? Just wondering. If it's confidential then no worries.
Jon
