WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

[toggleswitch2]

There is more than one path to Nirvana.

In my state if you as an employer acknowledge alcoholism you yourself become liable to pay for all treatment. Here we tend to see coming to work intoxicated as "Against the rules" in published rules of the job. Three strikes and you are out. Unfortunately, employers have to interpret these as isolated events (to protect themselves) and not a pattern of alcoholism.

Blond haired, blue eyed people tend to have a greater genetic predisposition to alcoholsim than others and don't understand why others don't have the same attraction/affinity /"need" for booze. Teaching such a person that alcohol is overall "bad" is not so easy. One person can't do it for them alone.

As far as all the above emotional resposnes; the man asked for opinions, not to be crucified. Remember, believing one thing one way, and passionately, doesn't mean it is so. It means the thinker may be inflexible and rigid in their way of thought. How does the saying go? There are three sides to every story, yours, mine and "the" truth. Calm down.

Cake anyone?

If you feel you have to deny confrirming employment because of your convictions, beware of potential liabilites. Thsi country is overly litigious. Please don't say "why" (out loud) you did not choose to answer. I truly commend your concern but it is a double-edged sword; don't get cut.

 

[sudsman]

Jon1077

He is a Laundry Processor. This is a shared services hospital laundry. I am a Certified Laundry Manger .

Thank you all for the comments but I do not feel that ANY ONE should be considered "out of line" for ANYTHING they say.

6 Weeks ago I was in the E R at one of the sister hospitals doing a late nite inventory. A mother (32) and 2 sons 7 and 8 were brought in by care flight.. They had been in a accident caused by a drunk driver who hit them and knocked them into a telephone pole. The mother did not survive, The two boys did. Thier dad was killed 2 years ago by a drunk driver whe ran a red lite. Now 2 little boys are orphands.

Almost a year ago one of our best Drs. and his wife were hit and car turned over by a drunk driver . He is no longer able to do surgery and his wife is wheelchair bound.

A ounce of prevention is always worth a pound of cure no matter what the situation is.

 

[oldhouseman]

Your intentions

are understood but be careful of your involvement into the personal life of an employee. It sounds like you may be putting to much of your personal feelings into the situation.

People with drinking problems are going to continue on a downward spiral until they hit bottom and sober up or they are going to die. Unfortunately they do alot of damage along the way. They sober up only if they want to. And you cannot make that choice for them.

You need to ask yourself about your relationship to this person. If you are only his supervisor then you need to keep that relationship in prospective and follow the legal guidlines.

Your concern about drunken drivers are valid. We all want them off the road.

Where I work a supervisor is not allowed to verify employment. That is a function only allowed by the personnel department. You could possibly tell the bank (or whoever) they need to contact your human resources department to verify
employment status thus taking you out of the picture.

Whatever you do just remember to keep deep emotions out of the picture. You are his supervisor not his personal caretaker.

 

[sudsman]

Greg

Thank you, I handle all H R issues for the laundry no matter what. I must always keep in mind what is best for our patients saftey and their loved ones. No matter what. I am not as concerned about what happens to him as I am what will happen to others on account of him. In his case it is not a matter of if anything happens just a matter of when it will. The last 3 cars he wrecked out within 3 days each time. And does not have a D/L. He backed over the ladies dog across the street and almost ran down the UPS man.. when he had his last auto,

 

[appliguy]

Sudsman I did not think you were playing God.....

That was directed at APPNUT for telling you that if you verify this guys empoloyment and he kills someone the blood will be on your hands!!!!! THat was a real haneous thing for him to lay at your feet. I actually think it is cool that you care so much for the others he might harm!!!!!!! BUt unfortunately in this day in age you can get yourself in a lot of trouble if you say he does not work for you when he still does. I had no problem with what you were saying it was with APPNUTS answer. PAT

 

[sudsman]

Pat

Thank you also. I would not lie and say he does not work here just would say I cannot give out information on any employee. A lot to companies in the area are doing just that. No verification of any kind. No job refrences or anything else.. they are too afraid.. of backlash. As far as I am concerned I could care less about me. I will be fine. too many times others are not so lucky. As I witness almost daily.

 

[appliguy]

We could use more caring peoplein this world

Well I guess what it comes down to is........you have to do what you feel is right. Like I said I could see from the beginning you were not doing this out of spite or for any selfish reasons so go with your heart man. It sounds to me like you have got it figured out how to handle it without causing any backlash so I say good luck I hope it works out ok.
PAT

 

[appnut]

OK Pat hear this!!! I have a friend who works in the exact same type of managerial position as Sudsman for exactly the same type of employer. He had the exact same employee situation, it's almost like it was the same guy, but it wasn't. My friend had the same thing posed to him as his manager. He did exactly what I stated. No negative ramifications. In fact, the guy got so pissed because of what his boss did, he went through a sobriety program and has been sober for 4 years. So I guess here in Texas, we do things a little bit differently and our mgrs. actually care about their employee enough to try and get them to get their life back together so that they can be productive and reliable on their jobs!!! And at the same time maybe save a couple of other human beings from being permanently mamed, or killed, and anguish for all families and friends involved. I wasn't stating anythihng I said out of ignorance!!! So stick it in your pipe and smoke it big boy

 

[~sudsshane]

Appliguy~

Why do you find it necessary to attack Appnut? Couldn't you have made your point in a much more respectful manner? I think you owe Appnut an apology.

He is a well respected member of Applianceville/AW.Org and has EVERY RIGHT to give HIS OPINION, just like you did yours. Just because you didn't like what he said doesn't give you the right to verbally assault him in public here on the threads.
Sudsman asked for people's opinions and not everybody will agree. You could have given yours and not been so rude!

There is a moral dilemma here. What if Sudsman verifies this guys employment, he buys the new car, and gets behind the wheel drunk and kills someone??? How would you feel if that someone was somebody you love?
I can't believe in TX this guy is still allowed to have a drivers license?? It should be revoked permanently! Driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a right!

Think about it...Personally, I wouldn't do it.

 

[nmaineman36]

Meeeow!

 

[~sudsshane]

back at ya

Michael!! =)

 

[appnut]

Aww, shucks Shane, thank you. That was very sweet of ya. I know some day I'll be able to give ya a hug in person for it. For now, ((((Shane))))

 

[perc-o-prince]

"Why do you find it necessary to attack Appnut? Couldn't you have made your point in a much more respectful manner? I think you owe Appnut an apology."

Well said and AMEN!!!

I don't know why some people(I'm not picking out anyone as it's has been several people) think that any time someone pisses in THEIR Cheerios that they can just lash out and assault someone for it. This has happened much more than I like to see. It's hurtful and NON productive to sharing thoughts and opinions. It certainly has made me much more gun-shy in participating with and sharing my thoughts and ideas with this nice group!

Pat, I hope that you don't take what I have said as directed toward you personally. I just hate seeing these things happen in such a unique group of people and this isn't the first time it's happened(not due to you) plus I just finished a round of chemo and I'm feeling well enough to write BUT im feeling just poorly enough to be a bit cranky!!! )

Peace,
Rich

 

[andrewinorlando]

Yeah Pat, your comments were way out of line, as was your freakin' tone. I know Bob (Appnut) very well, and he is a personal friend to boot. He is nothing you describe, and certainly the farthest thing from arrogant as you will ever find in another human being. If you can't say something with civility, then don't say it. You're obviously a tightly wound individual who has trouble expressing an opinion in a courteous and civil way. Attacking people on these boards will get you nowhere. And skip the caps buddy...you can certainly find it in yourself to make a point without SHOUTING. Or can you?

 

[nmaineman36]

You got that right....when one of us is attacked you know who your friends are and fast. We sistahs stick together and those that are not a sistah we stick by you as well...like velcro....I was going to use another way to put it but I dont think that it would be proper here and all.
Oh and the Meeeow was for Bob its just happened that you beat me to the post Shane Dahlink......for you you get a Meow Meow...lol
moi

 

[appnut]

Thank you guys for your kind words. It means a lot (tears welling in my eyes).

 

[angus]

Enough already with this nonsense!! As an HR professional, keep your moral opinion and personal feelings out of it. Plain and simple- you are asking for trouble if you refuse to verify employment. Also, terminating him because you are afraid he will injure someone while driving IS exercising an unnatural amount of power and like playing God. Tough, but true. I empathize with the horror stories, but even in an employment at will state, you are subjecting your employer to liability for wrongful termination. Now if you were having performance issues, that is another story - but it seems odd to me that these issues would only surface because of the driving question. Also remember that alcoholism is treated as an illness in the employment world. You will do what you feel you have to do, but recognize it for what it is, not what you want it to be.

Different approach - has his drinking affected job performance? If so, has he been offered employee assistance? Is anything documented? These are all the things that a lawyer would ask - so employment at will isn't carte blanche..Just something to think about.

 

[andrewinorlando]

Just remember, in employment at will, you can terminate anyone for no reason at all, as long as it's not for the wrong reason (race, age, gender, national origin, religion, etc.) So, you wanna can someone, then you certainly can; you don't have to have a reason. And let's face it - this is how many companies in the past have managed to get rid of gay people that they don't want in their employ, and there's nothing to protect them from this practice as they are not a protected class, just as our drunken friend in this example is not a protected class.

But you certainly cannot falsify an employment verification as that action may put you, and the company, at some risk, and it's just not worth your job when it comes right down to it.

 

[neptunebob]

Sudsman, can you go "higher up", that is, can your hospital's HR department either advise you or, refer any call you may get from the car dealer or bank to them to answer? After all, that is why your HR director gets paid the big bucks.

This also brings up another issue: If this employee can take a bus to work every day, does he really need a car that badly at all? I know this is probably for another thread but I have been living car free for the past month (old car could not pass inspection and I do not have money for new truck yet) and have done fine in my life (although, I have to admit, I don't get out much!). I am lucky in that I work from home, have a market within walking distance, can go downtown on the bus and can borrow a car from my family if need be, but one has to wonder: Maybe his money could be better spent on one of those rehabs in FL or Arizona where the bald guy on "Intervention" says "We're sending you to a place right now where you can resolve these issues and it's yes or no".

100 years of advertising have convinced America that every one must own a car. I guess that's a subject for another thread: Anyone here lived without a car?

 

[sudsman]

to all

agnus :I handle my own H/R issues and have for 30 + years. ad for taking anything to "HI UPS" I do not involve any one in my problems. Adminstratiors do not want to be bothered with "laundry problems' most dont give a damn anyway. They only thing they care about anymore is "how cheap can anything be done or how cheap it can be bought" I have out stayed 15 of them, and 12 Director of Nursing , 9 housekeeping services and so many others I can not start to count. I did not do it by taking my problems to anyone else.

As for Appnut.. I know him and he is FAR from the mean and hateful things that he is accused of. He is one of the most compassionate people I know. He entitled to speak his piece just as all others are. And I THANK HIM FOR HIS WORDS. As I do all others also. Attacks on him are OUT OF LINE and are for anyone else too.

Rodger does not need a car to hurt or kill anyone or anyones pets. After 2 drinks he is your woust nightmare . When not doing so he in kind and hardworking. He does not have a license nor did he in the last 3 accidents..

I will not help him get a car at this time.

I WILL NOT LIE ON VERIFICATION but I DO NOT HAVE TO VERIFY ANYTHING FOR ANY REASON I WANT TO!

I have no INTENTION OF FIRING anyone just to keep from verifying employment..

And for those of you who think I have to in Texas I DO NOT!