Which FL Washer Has Highest Temperature Boost Heater?

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LG and Electrolux models have Sanitary cycles with NSF certification.  Whirlpool has Sanitary cycle but the NSF certification was removed with model updates about 4 or 5 years ago.  And I'm still pretty mad at Whirlpool about that.  Currently there's one Maytag Maxima model with Allergy cycle NSF certification but there are impending model updates for both Whirl[pool and Maytag models.  The separate NSF certifications are NSF P351 for Allergy and NSF P172 for Sanitize.  The difference is Allergy temp was around 131 to 133 and uses more water and Sanitize temp is at least 153 degrees.  I'm fortunate my 2011 Whirlpool Duet had separate NSF certifications for m Allergy cycle as well  as Sanitize wash water temperature options.  My Sanitize wash water temp option is not isolated to one cycle.  I can select Sanitize wash water temperature for Whites, Heavy Duty, Allergy, Bulky Items, Sheets/Linens, Kids Wear, and Cotton Blankets cycles.  There are those who will make fun of all those cycles, but me being me, I've studied all those cycles and they each have different tumble patters, different tumble and soak/pause patters, and use different fill levels. 
 
George, if you're in a hurry, and per Bob's information, I suggest going with Electrolux.  We had a full size Frigidaire Affinity, which was made by Electrolux, and while its customary balancing acts prior to spin were often aggravating, it cleaned well.

 

I opted to use the Maytag Neptune stacking pair that was left behind in our new house, and while the washer gets the job done faster than the Affinity, the actual wash (tumbling) action isn't nearly as effective as that of the Affinity.  It's a trade-off I'm willing to accept, but with the Electrolux you'll get the on-board heater along with excellent wash action.
 
I went to a local appliance store where the salesman told me that Maytag will raise the water temperature 20 -- 25 degrees, that LG is made to last 5- 7 years, that Whirlpool is pretty much like Maytag, but Maytag is built to last longer, that Electrolux has a poor repair record along with LG, which he said is nearly impossible to get repaired in the Bay Area. Whom to believe???
 
George, member JKBFF is an appliance salesman in North Dakota.  He recently posted Duets & Maximas are pretty rock solid.  They don't sell many LGs and Samsung because that's what they seem to have to replace.  Member Combo52 has been a repairman for 40+ years.  Aside fomo Speed Queen (which doesn't have a heater), I think his next recommendation is Whirlpool or Maytag front loaders.  They both have upgraded memberships as you do, you could also contact them via the private message system too.

 

Me, if I had to replace my Duet, it would be Maytag or Whirlpool.

 

Also, on WP products, if you select the heaviest soil level, that allows more time for the water to heat.  The Steam for Stains option forces the heater to energize on cycles that it's an option and not used by default.  That's part of the flexibility I like about WP related front loaders. 
 
If I were in the market, I'd go with Maytag or Whirlpool too, even though the Affinity only needed its pump replaced this past December after nine years of service.  I made that repair myself.

 

The only reason I went with Frigidaire/Electrolux back in 2008 was because their full size FL machine had the same footprint as a standard top loader, and I had space limitations in the laundry room.  Otherwise I'd have brought my Duet pair with me.

 

I would absolutely steer clear of any Korean makes.
 
for most domestic machines, it doesn't seem to be a great increase in temps....

I was considering a heater model, but only to find out the best most could do was 140, luckily my water heater is set at 180....

I was hoping for temps close to a boil wash....at least 180/190....

some like the temps that a built in heater give.....I can't see the extra cost of having one....to each his own
 
Martin, I live in an all-electric house. I keep in my water heater at 1:20. My dishwasher and my washing machine raise water temps to over 150 degrees when I need it. It saves me a lot of money! Normal hot water temperatures in the washer of 125 130 degrees as well as dishwasher of 132 144 normal is more than adequate as far as I'm concerned.
 
yeah, I have one PowerVent gas water heater, and it has notched settings that allow temps up to 180...

all bathroom faucets are scald-safe units....those are set to give a luke warm shower....now in the master bath, I bypass those set temps...

even my regular vent gas water heater allows temps up to 160.....

I would say that for a single person lower temps would suffice, but not really the case for me, as when it was just us two, gas is cheap enough to allow me to run temps that high....

and there are times when running several machines, a dishwasher, and having up to 10 kids, the on-demand is ready.....at a lowest temp, to mix a warm bath, you would need 60% hot to 40% cold...but at the highest setting, you may only need 30% hot water to a 70% cold.....I have never run into a case of running out of hot water when there is a high demand...

washing in hot or true warm temps, has proven to keep my machines running at top condition.....we all have seen the effects of washing in cooler to cold temps does to a machine...

I was never wild about having an electric water heater, but when we did, it seemed best to add a timer to it....but you did have to work around when the hot water I could see where heaters in machines set availability.....I could see an internal heater may be of help...
 
Pretty sure you'll find the miele's will attain and sustain a hotter temp than anything on the market today- 194

Sustaining is the trick as hot water from a tank starts cooling on its way to the washer - we do a load per day of filthy animal towels used for dog grooming on hot 60C (140f - the magic number) - the washer itself disinfects everything without bleach.

It has two setting beyond that up to 90C I rarely use.....

I went from a huge top loading maytag to a miele 1215 and worried mightily about size with myself - my wife 2 teenagers and 3 dogs in a so cal house with a swimming pool.

Much to my surprise the miele would actually clean more clothes better than the top loader- and spin dry them to a much less moisture % before they go into a dryer.

My clothes also last a lot longer than with an agitator arm type top loader.

I can wash and entire queen sized bed in one shot with 6 shams.

UD
 
The hottest a Miele home model at 120V goes is 75C 167F, but only on Sanitize with a reduced load IIRC, normal goes to 60C 140F. Those start at 1499$, service is horrible in the US probably.

Their 208-240V 2 phase washing machines from their professional range listed on the home site (those should still be sold to private households) go up 203F still and have probably a lifespan equal to a SQ. But AFAIK these have "service intervals" which are for mainting the machine in a commercial enviroment, but you probably could reset these on your own.
But those are about 3700$.

Compairing Asko USA manuals to the Australian once, the maximum preset is 60C / 140F and the listed usages are the same as in the American manual.

Electrolux has NSF certification on the 500 and 600 series plus the compacts.
But keep in mind that Electrolux allows for Sanitation on 3 cycles (Heavy Duty, Whites and Normal). These do not limit the load size which should be noted!
Also, the SmartBoost system seems to be pretty capable by what I've red on the EU compact versions with that system.

If you are handy checking for a Miele W1xxx series might be an option, but they still run at high voltage!
 
I have a 240v receptacle where the stacking Neptunes were before I relocated them to the basement (the Neptunes operate on 120v because the dryer is gas).  I can definitely see a Miele in my future if I should decide to put laundry back upstairs if I ever get tired of going up and down the stairs to the basement.
 
Miele - Little Giants are what you are looking for

Miele Little Giants will fill the bill.

I went through a Kenmore 'Direct Drive' Top loader, 2 sets of Asko and then finally found the Miele showroom in Dallas.
Little Giants are not cheap by any means - but they are heavy and very well built. They run on 220 and have the hot water booster you are looking for. I run Queen size quilts with no balancing issues. I wish I would have known about them before I bought Asko.
If you have any questions, please ask.

http://https//www.mieleusa.com/domestic/product-selection-of-professional-washing-machines-3050.htm#
 
If you want bigger capacity than the Miele Little Giants, I wonder if you could get them to sell you the Octoplus machines? There's the PW5080 (8kg) washer & matching dryer (also available as a single stacked unit), and the bigger PW5105 (10kg) version (no stacker or matching dryer available).

Other options might be a commercial FL from Alliance (Unimac UYN series) or Whirlpool (ADC)?

All likely to be very expensive!

I really don't understand why America, with its hot-fill machines, can't have a 90-95c boil wash. This side of the pond, it's cold fill only, but we get 95c anyway. That said, my Miele struggles to heat to that level when I've filled it right up using the extra rinse cycle to begin with, so I've taken to filling it with hot using a spare drain hose fixed to the kitchen hot tap and stuck in the Miele's powder drawer...
 
I'm all for people having choice, but as to why very high temps (over 140F) have never taken off the in the USA, I think they're just not needed to get most laundry clean if you're using a top detergent.  Even clothes that would benefit (like white socks) could never take that kind of heat without being damaged anyway.

 

If someone is washing shop or cleaning rags I could see where it could be useful though.

 

 

 

 
 
I use my 95C cycle all the time for stuff like underwear, towels and bedding, as well as heavily-sweated-into clothing... I could not cope with a machine that only heated to 60C or so! Good detergents help, but to really sanitise stuff that could have nasty bacteria etc in it, you need an Imperial shit-ton of heat! Even 95c is a compromise, a sop to the Euro eco-police, the old AEGs, Bauknechts, Brockes and Constructas did a full rolling-boil 100c... what I'd give to find one of those!
 
Thanks, guys, for the comments. Keep 'em coming!
In the US, only the smaller Miele is available, and I am pretty sure my son, who asked for me to choose a new washer, wants a larger size. He and his wife are remodeling most of the first floor of their house, including the laundry room. They currently have a Bosch Nexxt, but that model is also no longer available in the US. I often do their laundry.
I am a big fan of very hot water after having a Miele 1203 (I thin that is the right model number).
 
Have said this before, an am doing so again

Not even hospital/healthcare linens are "boiled" routinely any longer.

Besides the energy costs there is also fact it has been long known such high heat washing increases wear on textiles.

Current accepted standard is either 65C wash held for ten minutes. Or 71C for at least three.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/biosafety/blood-borne-viruses/laundry-treatments.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/science/how-to-kill-germs-in-the-laundry.html

As for NSF standard:

"The protocol does not evaluate the water or steam temperature per se,
but it evaluates the ability of the sanitization cycle to perform
effectively. The sanitization cycle of a washer is dependent on the
combination of many variables (i.e. – drum size, drum shape, heater
wattage- if applicable, cycle time, cycle temperature, tumbling action,
etc.) These variables can change from model to model and manufacturer to manufacturer as long as they perform effectively.”

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/3985455/nsf-protocol-p-172-sanitary

Meaning that designation is no guarantee of "boil washing" temperatures. How can it when few to any washing machines sold in USA have the power to flash heat water fast enough to truly quickly sanitize.
 
People mention different things to explain why Americans did not get cozy with very high temperature wash: we have 120V as standard (240V outlets are not found everywhere, even when people have a single home and could pay for someone to install it), hot and cold fill hookups are usually available, people are afraid that the very high temps will damage the fabrics/garments, etc.

But the biggest factor, in my opinion, is a very simple one: people here are addicted to chlorine bleach -- that's why most people say 95C is unnecessary. Yes, a very high end detergent is helpful, but we did not have that until recently -- until Wisk tried to introduce tabs, Euro detergents were *much* better than our top-of-the-line Tide and Wisk. P&G only improved Tide substantially when Henkel entered the market with Persil.

So, until very recently, *anyone*, even people using chlorine bleach, would immediately notice a *huge* improvement after washing with detergents from Europe (Persil, Ariel, etc) and 95C (205F). The *other* thing that is common in this case, is that I've often heard people complain about "stains that came back after boiling!", that is, stuff that had been "gone" for years, say, a chocolate stain, that is now very faint, but noticeable. The problem is that now that the fabric is *whiter* than it's ever been, you notice the stain that even bleach could not remove. Once you wash the fabric at 95C a couple of times more, they'll disappear too.

And, I'd like to point out again, that bleach (even chlorine bleach) doesn't really "clean" the stains -- it removes the color. It can denature some proteins, but it's not a miracle worker. That's exactly why people who murder someone and "clean" the crime scene with bleach often end up in jail anyway. The color is gone, but there are plenty of tests that not only test for bleach presence, but also for the compounds that are still left behind.

The other thing I can say, to *both* camps, the European people who don't understand why/how we can live without "boil washes" *and* the American contingent who don't understand why/how European people don't turn their clothes into rags by boiling them: there is no wrong or right here. Clothes are basically manufactured to withstand the way local people wash them. And in any case, there is not a lot of difference between bleaching the laundry with chlorine every time and washing the clothes at 95C every time.

People who lived in both places (or used both methods) understand this very readily, it's not a hard concept to grasp. And in any case, the best way to get clean clothes and gentle wear/care is *still* to use the proper kinds and amounts of enzymes anyway.

Like the soap opera actress in Women at the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown said in the "advertisement", her son the murderer never went to jail because she washed all his clothes with OMO... :-P ;-)

Until people understand that, they'll be fighting two unequal battles: people who want to finish their laundry sooner, and use up to 140F/60C and chlorine bleach, versus people who want a slightly whiter/cleaner laundry and wait 2 hours for a 95C wash with no bleach or oxygen bleach.

Cheers,
      -- Paulo.
 
Something else have said previously

Boiling as routine part of domestic laundry went out when fully or even semi-automatic washing machines became the norm.

Yes, you still needed hot water. Also "yes" some housewives or whoever still chose to boil certain things such as baby's nappies, used handkerchiefs, etc...

But remember prime reason for all that hot to boiling water (aside from perceived sanitation) was use of soap as detergent. Quite simply unless kept in solution (warm to hot or even elevated temperatures) soap will congeal in textiles trapping not only that residue, but scum, dirt and muck as well. Hence sooner or later you ended up with tattle-tale grey or yellow laundry. Boiling opens fabric weave allowing whatever to be passed out, rather than trapped.

Chlorine bleach is/was a godsend in that it whitened, sanitized and *removed stains* (by decolorizing), but then as now commercial and domestic laundry manuals gave same advice; laundry that was properly washed shouldn't need routine chlorine bleaching. This regardless of what Clorox and other brands of the stuff would have us believe.
 
European detergents weren't always as good as they are nowadays ofcourse. That was the reason boil washes were done. In the sixties a lot of European detergents didn't contain that much enzymes. That's why Biotex came on the market in some countries, a special pre-wash (Biotex blue) and pre-soak detergent (Biotex green) were brought on the market. Standard in the sixties were to pre-wash with Biotex and wash with a regular detergent (my mother used Dixan).

In the seventies the energy crisis came around and on most European washing machines the E-button was introduced, a button that lowered the temperature to 60, 67 or there abouts and also prolonged the main wash. That's when washing at lower temperatures started. I know only a few washing machine enthousiasts that still wash at 95 degrees celcius, most other people wash at lower temperatures.
 
Miele OctoPlus

They won't sell these to US private customers as they do not meet domestic safety regulations.

And honestly: Don't think you need a bigger machine. It fits basicly any size pillow, most comforters, about 14 pounds of laundry.
Unless you have a thick king size comforter that needs weekly processing, you'll get along more then fine.
 
Energy Crisis In Europe At Least

Spurred invention of oxygen bleach activator TAED, which allowed "boil wash" results at 40c: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraacetylethylenediamine

Sodium perborate was the oxygen bleaching agent of choice on both sides of the pond then (Persil just that *PER*borate and *SIl*icate, along with soap and other substances. By 1959 the soap went, but sodium perborate remained.

Sodium perborate is cheaper than sodium percarbonate which probably is one reason why it was so often used. However recently EU has banned borates for laundry so everyone is switching over to sodium percarbonate. That oxygen bleach is known for "cold water" power and technically doesn't need an activator, but many products choose to add TAED anyway.

In the USA P&G developed NOBS first found in Biz (when it switched from a pre-soak to oxygen bleach "booster". It later was found in Oxydol then finally Tide with Bleach. It was TWB that killed off eventually both Oxydol and Biz as P&G sold both off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate

NOBS has the advantages of working better in the usually more dilute conditions of American laundry (all those top loading washing machines). It also works well in the shorter cycles and lower temps (since American top loaders obviously don't heat water, "hot" is what comes out of the taps), found with top loaders.

Interestingly in EU the patents on TAED have long expired, so you find activated oxygen bleach products not just from Henkel, but many other companies as well.

OTOH P&G has kept NOBS patents on lock down ever since their discovery. As such the only laundry products (and IIRC dishwasher detergents such as Cascade) that have activated bleaching systems based on that substance all come from Proctor and Gamble.

Ecolab has a solid oxygen bleach product and have some in my stash. It however is TAED based, not NOBS, which gets around P&G.
 

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