Whirlpool dishwasher motors update

[gelaundry4ever]

I understand the visualation of components and construction is important.
However, besides that, it's the actual performance in operation can only be determined by testing or use.

Nevertheless, things are not built like they WERE back when.

I completely agree, and it's only getting worse. We have dish misters, not dishwashers.

 

[phillymatt53]

I completely agree, and it's only getting worse. We have dish misters, not dishwashers.

Some might say they'd rather piss on their dishes and they'd come out cleaner!

 

[johnb300m]

Why don't you buy my broken KUDS25 PowerClean KitchenAid Jerome?
You can finally learn about actual appliances, and fix it up and learn how they go together.
Then you'll finally, FINALLY have your big beefy motor and lots of splashy water that can scrub the Ford building (Lmao, which they are tearing down by the way, to move to a new modern Tech center).

 

[michaelz08]

Hi Mike,
I can appreciate the intention for appliances to use less water per cycle.
However, the "water saving- energy saving" advertizing is, if you dig deep enough, a form of propaganda used in marketing, and entices consumers to believe they'll benefit from purchasing such products.

What manufacturers won't mention, or realize, is how a given savings and efficiency of something will actually please the consumer.
I'll use the well-known phrase "Your Mileage May Vary".

Take for instance, those water-saving low-flow faucets and shower heads.
There are sometimes when you may want a forceful stream of water.
But since that option has been forcefully taken from you, oh well!
File that under "Population Control" - lack of individual Freedoms.

And another one of the never discussed problems due to this "saving" propaganda is those new type of low-flow toilets....
You're led to "believe" that it's beneficial to save water - again, you're not allowed an option....
And what has those toilets accomplished?... read on..
That quick flush use's what, maybe a gallon to flush the dump and paper down?
OK... but the dump is now sitting under your home.... sitting, and sticking to the sewer pipe, and likely adhering to it, instead of flushing the crap all the way out to the street's main.
Mind you, the dishwasher, garbage disposal, etc, all leave "bits' in the pipe as well.
This eventually causes a major problem when you need to spend over a hundred bucks for a professional to come out unclog the line, because it's "your" responsability for any plumbing on your property.
So much for Savings!
I'm not joking!.... several of my neighbors have had to call in a plumber because of this very issue.
Because the main is 50 to 75 feet from the house, and a stinking gallon flush isn't going to propel solid sewage all the way where it needs to go.

Thanks, but I'll keep my 1970's Kohler toilet that I know flushes things right out of my lateral pipe to the street.
That 5 or 6 gallon flush insures that I'm not going to hire a plumber.

Bottom line, ignore things that you're "told" to believe are beneficial to "the green" propoganda.

There are some cases where good intentions have unintended consequences. Low flow toilets in an old home are an example as yes, the plumbing relies on the water flow to move sewage.

But you’re most certainly going too far off the deep end with the series of examples here. You sound like a curmudgeon on the matter.

I pay my water bill. I like my bills to remain reasonable. Things have gotten fairly expensive for those my age, especially after COVID. If I can reduce the amount of water used without altering effectiveness, every little bit of water saving adds up to a difference, from my low flow shower head to my 3 gallon dishwasher. So, that is a selling point to me and surely many others. Because efficiency is cost effective.

And just because water is abundant where you live, doesn’t mean it is everywhere? Do you not know there are regions even within the US where water is either expensive or the reservoirs they draw from can only supply so much at a given point in time?

Tell me the last time you heard someone going on about how they wish our cars still took leaded gasoline and got an average of 13 miles per gallon?

 

[phillymatt53]

There are some cases where good intentions have unintended consequences. Low flow toilets in an old home are an example as yes, the plumbing relies on the water flow to move sewage.

But you’re most certainly going too far off the deep end with the series of examples here. You sound like a curmudgeon on the matter.

I pay my water bill. I like my bills to remain reasonable. Things have gotten fairly expensive for those my age, especially after COVID. If I can reduce the amount of water used without altering effectiveness, every little bit of water saving adds up to a difference, from my low flow shower head to my 3 gallon dishwasher. So, that is a selling point to me and surely many others. Because efficiency is cost effective.

And just because water is abundant where you live, doesn’t mean it is everywhere? Do you not know there are regions even within the US where water is either expensive or the reservoirs they draw from can only supply so much at a given point in time?

Tell me the last time you heard someone going on about how they wish our cars still took leaded gasoline and got an average of 13 miles per gallon?

I can certainly understand a person being frugal about spending and living within their means, I'm the same way.
Being retired now, I'm careful, and use common sense about spending as well.

However, I don't think it's accurate to think that my water availability is a factor pertaining to my comments, because I'm merely pointing out the fact that not all of the mandated legislations concerning water level control of appliances are as beneficial as claimed to be.
I was pointing out things as the toilet situation causing people to spend a lot more money for plumbing repair services because of water saving legislation.
There goes any of their water-saving, down the drain.

And anyone who personally knows me can tell you that I'm far from being labeled a curmudgeon type of guy, asides from friendly joking.
Even my younger friends, relatives, neighbors, in their mid-30's have told me that they've admired my vast knowledge about things, and that it's helped them to avoid having to deal with some issues.

 

[combo52]

Growing older and becoming an old curmudgeon

This was an important life lesson for me as I’m even older than Matt.

My first job in the St was working for two really great guys Bill and Bob. They had a good attitude and were fun to work with. As time went on Bill became more and more negative. This was in the 80s and everything was no good. the customers are all out to get us. The manufacturers were making nothing but junk and wanted to cheat the dealer at every return, etc. etc. he became so negative that it taught me that if I ever get this way, I will quit the business.

Matt, most of your examples are highly exaggerate. You have no idea what caused the plumbing clogs that your neighbors had. I have 180 feet of cast-iron drain pipe running from my house out to the street and then all the way across the street where the sewer hooks up on the opposite side. 38 years ago, I changed out all three toilets to low flow toilets. I have never had a problem I use my garbage disposals continuously and always never have a problem.

Your old 70s toilet does not likely use 7 gallons either very few toilets ever used more than 3 1/2 at that time.

I love new technology. It’s amazing how these new dishwashers can get a load completely clean cleaner than your old KitchenAid ever could with only three or 4 gallons of water as I said in another post, I had a KSS 20 in my kitchen for about eight years and it worked quite well, but I got sick of the food rotting in the bottom of it it always stunk, and it didn’t dry nearly as well as other machines and that’s why you end up rinsing a lot of your dishes, etc. you’re not challenging it because you don’t have a great dishwasher that works like the new ones you should treat yourself to some new stuff.

I intend to enjoy the hopefully many years I have left in one of the things that gives me great joy is the new technology of many products.

I got a top-of-the-line Chrysler Pacifica two years ago. It is just absolutely astounding how well everything works from the rain sense wipers to the auto dimming headlights the navigation systems vehicle surround safety. Features are amazing. I am so glad I got rid of my old 2004 Town & Country, which was a great vehicle and is still on the road. I’m just glad I don’t have it.

John L

 

[phillymatt53]

Matt, most of your examples are highly exaggerate. You have no idea what caused the plumbing clogs that your neighbors had.

Your old 70s toilet does not likely use 7 gallons either very few toilets ever used more than 3 1/2 at that time.

John L

Let me be perfectly clear here....

I'm already aware of how you ASSUME things about people, mis-quote their statements, and your acccusations.
Among other members on here that feel the same way.

Go back, and see if I ever said my toilet use stated 7 gallons - I did not.
And your comment regarding my neighbors? - yet another false claim.
Because they told me, not you, what the issues was.

Put that bottle of cheap wine down before posting garbage talk.

 

[Chetlaham]

I find that speech to text can produce translation errors coming across as showing minimal investment and respect for the forum. That is why I avoid using speech to text programs unless it is necessary.

Which takes me to the Whirlpool. Alternating wash arm produce complexity creating more components which can fail. I like dishwashers that run all spray arms at the same time. Motors for me have to be induction or wet rotor, brush motors wear out to quickly for the life of the machine.

 

[qsd-dan]

My first job in the St was working for two really great guys Bill and Bob. They had a good attitude and were fun to work with. As time went on Bill became more and more negative. This was in the 80s and everything was no good. the customers are all out to get us. The manufacturers were making nothing but junk and wanted to cheat the dealer at every return, etc. etc. he became so negative that it taught me that if I ever get this way, I will quit the business.

The 1970's were "peak" in a lot of ways for appliances. I'd say that out-of-the-box thinking and unique designs peaked in the 1960's. Fridges peaked in the 1950's except for interior space. There's a lot fo 1950's fridges working out there without a repair. Dishwashers peaked in the 80's, some in the 70's, like KA. I'd love to hear Bills opinion on today stuff without having an anureism, it's like navigating a minefield. You're in the repair business, lots of money to be made with cheap junk that doesn't last and you make money just showing up without grabbing a tool and letting the cutomers know it isn't worth repairing. The only negative part of the job is dealing with angry customers when their new stuff is breaking down and throwing error codes.

Your old 70s toilet does not likely use 7 gallons either very few toilets ever used more than 3 1/2 at that time.

Only lowboys and special ordered toilets were 3.5 GPF in the 70's and their performance suffered. 4 gallons was the norm in the 70's but Kohler made a Wellworth that used 7 gallons in the 70's and their performance was crappy (pun intended) from their design, paticularly very small trapways.

I had a KSS 20 in my kitchen for about eight years and it worked quite well, but I got sick of the food rotting in the bottom of it it always stunk,

Clean your filter. I always clean my filter after every run.

and it didn’t dry nearly as well as other machines

My hobart KA's dried better than any dishwasher I had and that's with air dry only. The Maytag RR was a close second. Crappy drying performance is a big complaint these days due to very small or non existent blowers/fans. My KDS-18 also outperformed every dishwasher I had, inlcuding the very low mileage TOL late 1997 Kenmore Powerclean dishwasher. I couldn't use the heated dry option on the Kenmore as it warped everything plastic, even on the top rack. The Point Voyager is the worst cleaning dishwasher I ever had and that's using the longest cycle with every single option selected. It's also the worst drying. My KDS-18 outperforms it using the Normal cycle and in 1/4 of the time. If you load a new Kitchenaid clean water wash dishwasher the way you load your 1980's PC, you'll be pulling it out and repairing it often, really often.

 

[phillymatt53]

Thanks Dan, for that great post #39!

And I'll add that indeed, the quality of products in general was peaking during the 1970s - including audio/hifi equipment.
And thank you for identifying the toilet model in my main bathroom, I didn't know it had such a classy "name".
Yes, it's got a sluggish flush compared to modern lo-flo crappers, but I've never had to service it, or unclog it, other than replacing the flapper valve and the wax ring.
Your comments about the KA machines are spot on, and I can agree since my KDC-19 also dries things without issues.

 

[vacerator]

Our low flow toilet was good in 2018 when new, but now you must flush twice for most solid waste. I don't know if the glazing ion the trap is not great or what, but it seems to get stuck in the trap with just 6 to 8 pieces of T.P. The second flush is very strong. The MSRP was $800 then. Dealer discount was 40%.

 

[phillymatt53]

Our low flow toilet was good in 2018 when new, but now you must flush twice for most solid waste. I don't know if the glazing ion the trap is not great or what, but it seems to get stuck in the trap with just 6 to 8 pieces of T.P. The second flush is very strong. The MSRP was $800 then. Dealer discount was 40%.

800 bucks for a crappy toilet????
Is it made of gold?
Does it have bluetooth speakers?

Id never pay even the discount price for a lousy toilet.
I believe inflation and todays miserable products are taking advantage of consumers by giving them no recourse to fight this evil robbery spree.

 

[vacerator]

No, it's a top line Kohler made in USA San Succi raised seat elongated one piece and the cashmere color was extra cost. It's better than the very old big tank two piece in our basement though.

 

[vacerator]

Well Matt, many wouldn't and some spend thousands on toilets. To each their own. Do you like gold? You seem to favor one who does.

 

[phillymatt53]

Well Matt, many wouldn't and some spend thousands on toilets. To each their own. Do you like gold? You seem to favor one who does.

All I can say is that spending such a high price for something that you crap on is mind boggling.
If a person is SO obsessed with their bathroom decor to the point of having to feed their ego with a thousand dollar toilet, I honestly think that's goofy.
It's like those "High-End" snobby audiophiles that insist on having $150,000 speakers or $25,000 turntables.
Where is the reasoning? - it's only in their heads.

As for gold, I actually couldn't care less about it.
Precious metals, jewels, paintings. are something that have been worshipped for centuries, but for what reason?
To feed human egos, to impress, to create some form of status symbol.
I look past my nose and find that a lot of society's beliefs are man-made for purposes of virtually elevating human stature and self worth, among other things.

 

[vacerator]

Again, tastes, budgets and hearing are individual and unique.

 

[william8]

It's like those "High-End" snobby audiophiles that insist on having $150,000 speakers or $25,000 turntables.
Where is the reasoning? - it's only in their heads.

And I'll add that indeed, the quality of products in general was peaking during the 1970s - including audio/hifi equipment.

That's funny. Audio equipment was much better in the 2000's than the '70's. We didn't even have CD in the 70's. Then, just crappy cassettes, and vinyl that would lose quality every time you played it.

It's dropping now, as two or three companies have bought out every brand out there. Denon, Marantz, Bowers & Wilkins, Polk Audio, Definitive Technology, are all owned by Masimo, McIntosh was bought by Bose, for example. Voxx bought Klipsch, and they buy brands just to close them down I think the only mainstream independent brand left is Yamaha. And in the early 2000's all the mainstream brands went to China.

I agree there are some nuts out there that think $5K wires change their sound, and $4K power cords...But it's their money, and apparently they enjoy the hobby.

For a guy that keeps telling us to trust him, because he repaired them for 25 years, you seem to not know a whole lot about the subject. You told me to trust you about ATSC 3.0 tuners (NextgenTV) not being required soon for OTA. You never even heard of it, but it's been rolling out overseas since 2017. And announced in the US in 2018.
Yes, I have a stereo, In fact I currently have three brings me much joy. I've spent a ton on it (no fancy wires). That's up to the individual not you.

And if everything was so great in the 70's, what did you have to repair?

 

[phillymatt53]

That's funny. Audio equipment was much better in the 2000's than the '70's. We didn't even have CD in the 70's. Then, just crappy cassettes, and vinyl that would lose quality every time you played it.


I agree there are some nuts out there that think $5K wires change their sound, and $4K power cords...But it's their money, and apparently they enjoy the hobby.

For a guy that keeps telling us to trust him, because he repaired them for 25 years, you seem to not know a whole lot about the subject. You told me to trust you about ATSC 3.0 tuners (NextgenTV) not being required soon for OTA. You never even heard of it, but it's been rolling out overseas since 2017. And announced in the US in 2018.
Yes, I have a stereo, In fact I currently have three brings me much joy. I've spent a ton on it (no fancy wires). That's up to the individual not you.

And if everything was so great in the 70's, what did you have to repair?

First off, how OLD are you?
Because you sound like some snotnose 18 to 29 year old brainwashed individual that's bought into the hype of "old is bad, new is the best", and walk around with earbuds hanging out of your head.

And no, I didn't just do repairs for 25 years - that's your assumption.
I've been in the audio and video sales AND service profession for over 45 years, along with aquiring my certification as a professional service technician.
My customers have given me tons of 5-star reviews online as a matter of fact, and I've got emails, christmas cards, and web reviews saved to prove it.
As far as repairs on "great 70's" equipment, that comment of yours is childish and stupid. - I won't even give it attention.

Your quote of "That's funny. Audio equipment was much better in the 2000's than the '70's. We didn't even have CD in the 70's. Then, just crappy cassettes, and vinyl that would lose quality every time you played it.
Makes ME laugh.
It tells me that you know nothing about "vintage" equipment or the real quality of it. - OR the need to do repairs due to mis-use or accidents.

Listen, do me a favor, don't reply to me about anything further, because I'll report it as badgering, insulting, and harrassment.

 

[william8]

First off, how OLD are you?
Because you sound like some snotnose 18 to 29 year old brainwashed individual that's bought into the hype of "old is bad, new is the best", and walk around with earbuds hanging out of your head.

And no, I didn't just do repairs for 25 years - that's your assumption.
I've been in the audio and video sales AND service profession for over 45 years, along with aquiring my certification as a professional service technician.
My customers have given me tons of 5-star reviews online as a matter of fact, and I've got emails, christmas cards, and web reviews saved to prove it.
As far as repairs on "great 70's" equipment, that comment of yours is childish and stupid. - I won't even give it attention.

Your quote of "That's funny. Audio equipment was much better in the 2000's than the '70's. We didn't even have CD in the 70's. Then, just crappy cassettes, and vinyl that would lose quality every time you played it.
Makes ME laugh.
It tells me that you know nothing about "vintage" equipment or the real quality of it. - OR the need to do repairs due to mis-use or accidents.

It was a typo, it says 45+ right in your signature. I did ask what you have been repairing since the 70's.
I'm 61. Been into audio since I was 8, it was Marantz tube equipment. Had full separates by 1980 at 16. It

Listen, do me a favor, don't reply to me about anything further, because I'll report it as badgering, insulting, and harrassment.

If you keep posting misinformation, I will reply. people come here for information.
It's discussion forum after all. Harassment? I post links and facts, you reply with non sense opinions. And now you want to control who posts?

Have a good day.

 

[qsd-dan]

That's funny. Audio equipment was much better in the 2000's than the '70's. We didn't even have CD in the 70's. Then, just crappy cassettes, and vinyl that would lose quality every time you played it.

I'm sure he was referring to amplifiers, not cassette/8-track players and lower end open reel decks. You'll find very few collectors for early 80's to modern amps unless they're really high end stuff but 70's amps have been very popular since at least the late 1990's. Higher end 70's turntables, tonearms (like the SME 3009 and 3012) and speakers have been very popular since that time frame as well. I was aggressively researching this stuff in 1998 when I got high speed internet. I was also aggressively buying this stuff from 1999-2005 on Ebay (later on Craigslist) when it was extremely cheap and virtually unknown to most of the public.

Picked up a cream colored grease bearing Garrard 301 with black plates (the rarest and most coveted combo) for $75 on Ebay in 2001. They go for $2K now. Swiped a perfectly working/looking Sansui G-9000 for $300 in 2002. They go for $4K now. A Kenwood KR-9600 for $120 in 2002 and later, another one for free. Teledyne Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers for free, $150, and $175 (had 3 pairs at one time), mint Sansui QRX-9001 for $200, mint Thorens TD-124 for $260, SME 3012 tonearm for $300. I could keep going on but you get the point. Shipping in those days was also very cheap. Glad I did this way back then, no way I could afford most of that stuff by 2010.

 

[maytag85]

Growing older and becoming an old curmudgeon

This was an important life lesson for me as I’m even older than Matt.

My first job in the St was working for two really great guys Bill and Bob. They had a good attitude and were fun to work with. As time went on Bill became more and more negative. This was in the 80s and everything was no good. the customers are all out to get us. The manufacturers were making nothing but junk and wanted to cheat the dealer at every return, etc. etc. he became so negative that it taught me that if I ever get this way, I will quit the business.

Matt, most of your examples are highly exaggerate. You have no idea what caused the plumbing clogs that your neighbors had. I have 180 feet of cast-iron drain pipe running from my house out to the street and then all the way across the street where the sewer hooks up on the opposite side. 38 years ago, I changed out all three toilets to low flow toilets. I have never had a problem I use my garbage disposals continuously and always never have a problem.

Your old 70s toilet does not likely use 7 gallons either very few toilets ever used more than 3 1/2 at that time.

I love new technology. It’s amazing how these new dishwashers can get a load completely clean cleaner than your old KitchenAid ever could with only three or 4 gallons of water as I said in another post, I had a KSS 20 in my kitchen for about eight years and it worked quite well, but I got sick of the food rotting in the bottom of it it always stunk, and it didn’t dry nearly as well as other machines and that’s why you end up rinsing a lot of your dishes, etc. you’re not challenging it because you don’t have a great dishwasher that works like the new ones you should treat yourself to some new stuff.

I intend to enjoy the hopefully many years I have left in one of the things that gives me great joy is the new technology of many products.

I got a top-of-the-line Chrysler Pacifica two years ago. It is just absolutely astounding how well everything works from the rain sense wipers to the auto dimming headlights the navigation systems vehicle surround safety. Features are amazing. I am so glad I got rid of my old 2004 Town & Country, which was a great vehicle and is still on the road. I’m just glad I don’t have it.

John L

I, too, like new technology, but if there’s bugs in the design, doesn’t live up to it’s name, not really worth anything.

Still using my machines from a bygone era, life still goes on as it always does and has.

Unfortunately, it’s getting to the point where everything is commonplace in life and is now longer ‘new’. Things eventually hit a plateau since everyone one who has got one has it, what do you do to keep the interest up.

Somewhat weary of marketing claims that are put out there, most of everything is just all style and no substance these days, unfortunately.

 

[william8]

I'm sure he was referring to amplifiers, not cassette/8-track players and lower end open reel decks. You'll find very few collectors for early 80's to modern amps unless they're really high end stuff but 70's amps have been very popular since at least the late 1990's. Higher end 70's turntables, tonearms (like the SME 3009 and 3012) and speakers have been very popular since that time frame as well. I was aggressively researching this stuff in 1998 when I got high speed internet. I was also aggressively buying this stuff from 1999-2005 on Ebay (later on Craigslist) when it was extremely cheap and virtually unknown to most of the public.

Picked up a cream colored grease bearing Garrard 301 with black plates (the rarest and most coveted combo) for $75 on Ebay in 2001. They go for $2K now. Swiped a perfectly working/looking Sansui G-9000 for $300 in 2002. They go for $4K now. A Kenwood KR-9600 for $120 in 2002 and later, another one for free. Teledyne Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers for free, $150, and $175 (had 3 pairs at one time), mint Sansui QRX-9001 for $200, mint Thorens TD-124 for $260, SME 3012 tonearm for $300. I could keep going on but you get the point. Shipping in those days was also very cheap. Glad I did this way back then, no way I could afford most of that stuff by 2010.

I think you mean receivers. Very few bought separate amps in the 70's and 80's. I do have power amps from 1989, 1999, and 2001, though I'm not a collector, I still use them. I think vintage gear has become very expensive, but that's for nostalgia, not quality. Everyone wants to recapture their youth.

I had a Nakamichi cassette decks, and Teac reel to reel at the at the end of the 70's. I was not talking about 8-tracks. The reel to reel sounded very good, but a pain to deal with.

Current main system, newest component is 10 years old:



No computer speakers here:


Garage, runs off zone 2 from the 5 channel amp:


But Philly thinks I'm just an 18 year old kid...

 

[phillymatt53]

I'm sure he was referring to amplifiers, not cassette/8-track players and lower end open reel decks. You'll find very few collectors for early 80's to modern amps unless they're really high end stuff but 70's amps have been very popular since at least the late 1990's. Higher end 70's turntables, tonearms (like the SME 3009 and 3012) and speakers have been very popular since that time frame as well. I was aggressively researching this stuff in 1998 when I got high speed internet. I was also aggressively buying this stuff from 1999-2005 on Ebay (later on Craigslist) when it was extremely cheap and virtually unknown to most of the public.

Picked up a cream colored grease bearing Garrard 301 with black plates (the rarest and most coveted combo) for $75 on Ebay in 2001. They go for $2K now. Swiped a perfectly working/looking Sansui G-9000 for $300 in 2002. They go for $4K now. A Kenwood KR-9600 for $120 in 2002 and later, another one for free. Teledyne Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers for free, $150, and $175 (had 3 pairs at one time), mint Sansui QRX-9001 for $200, mint Thorens TD-124 for $260, SME 3012 tonearm for $300. I could keep going on but you get the point. Shipping in those days was also very cheap. Glad I did this way back then, no way I could afford most of that stuff by 2010.

I recently overhauled 2 Thorens TD-124's for my next door neighbor.
He also brought me several RTR decks to repair/calibrate - Technics RS-1500 US, Akai Pro-1000, Otari MX-5050.
A pair of Acoustic Research LST speakers needing new tweeters//mods.
A classic Dual 1019, and a Dual 701, both in flawless cosmentic condition, but needing service.

I've kept busy in retirement, since there's not many techs out there with the qualifications and experience that I've managed to aquire.
Although, those internet techs will charm you with bullcrap and lies just to get your money.

 

[phillymatt53]

But Philly thinks I'm just an 18 year old kid...

No, I didn't think that.
I SAID you SOUND like one.
And obviously stubborn.

 

[william8]

No, I didn't think that.
I SAID you SOUND like one.
And obviously stubborn.

Now that's funny, you don't seem stubborn at all!

 

[phillymatt53]

Moving on to dishwashers, I just got back walking from the store and spotted a fairly new Whirlpool by the curb waiting for trash day.
Other than that, I kept walking and I didn't pay much attention to the thing.