Whither Goes Chrysler?

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sudsmaster

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I own a small amount of stock in Daimler-Chrysler (I prefer the Chrysler side of the equation. I was shocked when I opened up my proxy statement today and found a proposal submitted for voting, which detailed that the name of the corporation be returned to the old "Daimler-Benz AG" moniker, "not later than March 31, 2008", leaving Chrysler out of it completely.

To add insult to insult, the proposal went on to say things like, "Maintaining a corporate name that evokes associations with teh failure of the business combination with Chryselr is deterimental to the image of the corporation and its products....this... can only be borne at most for a short transition period until there is a peroper separation from Chrysler ... If a proper separation cannot be affected within on eyear, this would only serve to underscore the need to remove this affliction on the image from the corporation's name."

To be fair, this proposal came not from DC management, but from a couple of German shareholders by the names of Prof.Dr. Ekkehard Wenger and Dr. Leonhard Knoll. DC management, in the same proxy, stated, "The requested amendments... are neither necessary nor appropriate. The DaimlerChrysler name is established all over the world. There are no grounds to change the name of the corporation. "

This is, however, under the buzz about DC looking for someone to buy off its currently money losing Chrysler branch - at a big loss. It may still happen. However I'd also like to point out that when Daimler "merged" with Chrysler, the American firm was the most profitable automaker in the world. The Mercedes division was losing money. Susequent problems at Chrysler were not unique among American automakers, but perhaps have been compounded by Daimler's inability (or unwillingness) to truly merge the two companies and gain synergistic benefits from sharing both engineering and styling talent.

That these proposals, which look like they won't pass, have come up at all is somewhat indicative of a strong anti-Chrysler sentiment within the old Daimler-Benz company. I suppose it's part of the general disdain that Germans have for American products - but it's worth noting that Mercedes vehicles generally score near the bottom of Consumer Reports' reliabiity surveys.

What does this have to do with appliances? Not much, but it is somewhat familiar - we've seen Maytag swallowed up recently by Whirlpool, and many other appliance makers have fallen by the wayside over the years, only to be kept alive in name only as rebadged parent corporation products.

Personally, I'd be happier if Chrysler were to become an independent corporation again, but I think the Mercedes side of DC has really goofed on this one - they had a great opportunity to produce a stunning world car, by combining German engineering with American manufacturing efficiency, and blew it. It may be too late to recover, but I hope we'll be seeing Chrysler products in showrooms from some time to come.

What success Chrysler has had in the past couple year has in fact been in part due to greater cooperation between the two companies - for example, the best selling Chrysler 300 sedan utilizes Mercedes suspension, albeit from a dated model. But it may be too little, too late.
 
If memory serves me correctly the Chrysler Corporation was founded in 1924 by Walter Percy Chrysler.
I truly saddens me to see this great company being destroyed. I hope it does not end up being just a memory.
Remember AMC.
 
I don't follow the car biz much anymore and my interest in new cars has waned considerably to almost zip nowadays. Where once I could tell just about any car on the road it's the exact opposite now with few exceptions most being Chryslers. They seem to have aced it in the styling department. The 300's are very popular as are their Dodge cousins, the gangsta-mobiles I think of them. Our roads are cluttered with Dodge Ram 1500's including the one in our driveway. I dunno what happened to the PT Cruiser, they were fairly common sights on the roads the last few years but I see nary a one around here these days except for Jennys Floral Shop delivery cruiser up the road. Oh and the Town & Country / Caravan vans, kazillions of those as well.
 
not true

It is absolutely not true that Germans hold American products in disdain.
Germans, such as myself, who grew up familiar with the tremendous creativity, engineering and superior design American products embodied - together with high quality - up to the mid-1970's are very disappointed by what the trend US manufacturers have taken in the last forty years or so.
Instead of bashing us for pointing out that nothing built in the US today comes even close to a real thumper, why not take a real look at US quality/price versus what the Europeans and Chinese are offering?
It is no coincidence that a tremendous number of American trained, born and bred engineers are working abroad. They would rather work for companies which appreciate their creativity and outstanding education than for domestic firms which scorn anything expect the manager's salary.
The Daimler-Chrysler marriage was doomed from the start. The arrogance of Jürgen Schremp and his arschküssende managers was 99% of the problem. If he had been honest with the American side of the family and with the German house, this constellation would never have been approved.
I still get a hard-on over Chargers when their hemi roars to life. Chrysler deserved better.
But bashing others won't solve the problem...a casual reading of the German entries in this forum will show that, apart from me, no Germans make disparaging comments.
At all.
 
Um, I didn't think I was bashing Germans when I quoted two German stockholders who didn't have very nice things to say about Chrysler. That Germans held American products in high regard until the 1970's is nice, but doesn't mean that they still hold the same opinion today. Certainly Drs. Wenger and Knoll don't. But no, I had no intention of bashing Germans and I don't think I did.

Yes, Shrempp was rather disengenuous before the merger. But I can't believe that Bob Eaton (CEO) and Bob Lutz (VP) were unaware of the probable result of the merger they engineered with Schrempp. That merger made a lot of car fans quite unhappy on both sides of the pond - the Chrysler fans in the USA and the Mercedes fans in Europe. There is plenty of blame to go around on this one.

I have read that one of Chrysler's problems is that it has over $16 Billion in long term debt in the form of obligations to cover medical care for retired employees. This makes the company a rather unattractive buy for a lot of suitors. I think Daimler-Benz bought Chrysler back in 1999 for $17 billion. Now the best offers range around $5 billion.

What is unfortunate is that innovation on the Chrysler side seems to have died with the merger. The 300 is a nice car and all, but it's a gas guzzling throwback. Chrysler has no fuel-efficient small cars in the hopper; the replacement for the Neon, the Calibre, is getting dismal reviews from all quarters, as are the Jeep versions based upon it (Compass and Patriot). Of all their cars, I like the wagon version of the 300, the Dodge Magnum, the best, as it combines good style with a lot of practicality, but it's sort of an anomaly. Hand-me-down obsolete Mercedes components won't make a cutting edge vehicle for Chrysler, either.

Oh, and Walter P. Chrysler - a great engineer in his own right - was of German-American heritage (his grandfather's name was something more like "Kreisler"). He started out as a mechanic for the American railroads, made all his own tools (as was the custom at the time), became a master mechanic and ran the railroad's mechanical operations. When he got enough cash (sympathetic banker) he bought a Locomobile and took it completely apart and put it back together again before even taking it for a spin. From there on his career soared. He was brought in to rescue the Maxwell Corp and turned that into Chrysler Corp with his trend-setting 1924 Chrysler Six. Sadly the 1934 Airflow - a superior engineering achievement - was saddled with a face only a locomotive engineer could love - and for two decades after that Chrysler Corp became a styling backwater, afraid to do anything daring or unconventional. That turned around in the mid-50's, with the "Forward Look" that rivaled similar trends in appliances like the "Sheer Look" in the Frigidaire lineup. A hiccup in the early 60's resulted in some of the ugliest grills ever made, but the styling recovered nicely by '64 and today late 60's/early 70's Chrysler corp muscle cars (like the Charger, Challenger, Barracuda) net prices in the hundreds of thousands in classic car auctions.

Remember AMC? Of course I do. Chrysler bought that up in the 80's - primarily to get its Jeep division. But a hidden prize was AMC's engineering/design department, which was managing to field an impressive lineup of cars with a very small department by structuring around platforms instead of around brands and models. This led to the LH platform lineup, and the idea continues today with the 300/Magnum; Sebring/Stratus/Avenger, Calibre/Compass/Patriot, etc...

I'm actually of a mixed opinion on how I should vote on the name change proposal. In a sense I think the best thing that could happen to Chrysler would be to become independed again, free to innovate on its own without having to answer to a foreign company's needs first. But I'm a realist and I would prefer Chrysler stay with Daimler rather than become a division of Chery.
 
Me, too

I do think the company owes it to their Chrysler division to make up for the shit they pulled. Lots of German shareholders are furious at what they were saddled with, lots of Americans were just plain lied to. Schremp & Co. were a nasty piece of work.
I don't know any solutions...it just seems like, if a tiny little country like Germany or Italy can keep it's domestic production going, a big whopping country like the US should be able to support three domestic car makers, too. If only for the sake of competition.
 
It was said in a prior post

medical coverage!

We need Health Care FINANCE REFORM in this country, desperately.

We don't need health care reform. Our health care can be quite excellent. We need health care finance reform, and probably a single payer.

ALL of my doctors agree with me on this. From my internist to my cardiologist to my gastroenterologist.

If employers weren't saddled with ridiculous health care expenses for current and former employees, things would be better for everyone in this country.

It breaks my heart. When I drove, I drove Chrysler cars (mostly Plymouths).

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
You could see that coming when they merged. At least I did.

I used to work for a few German companies. They do not appreciate American engineering, design, or much of anything we do beyond cheap labor. It will eventually not resemble anything American or one of the big three. We are bad off here in Michigan due to our dependance on one product manufactured. I dont blame them, but there is nothing currently to replace them.

I was treated fairly by the Germans but there is a decided ceiling for natives. German American or not (I am).

Health care reform is needed but not just at one level. We pay the most in the world for prescription drugs, Dr. visits, and testing procedures. Its simple greed, nothing more. This country also must learn to do for themselves and allow people to take care of themselves some. Internet drugs are being made illegal to buy in many states but for us, its cheaper to buy them when you know what you need than to pay 185.00 for a Dr. office visit and then 40.00 co-pay for a generic medicince all the while running all over town as opposed to ordering a drug online for 169.00 delivered by fedex. Its not rocket science and I dont need a Dr to figure out I need a refill or whatever. If you dont know thats when you go. This however threatens a Dr.s 5 minutes fir 185.00 practice and the lifestyle they have become accustomed too.
 
With the exception of the Jeep lineup, I think most Chrysler cars are styled with the ghetto bling bling market in mind. And Mercedes is not too far behind.
Here is a story for you:

When I was a teen, I wanted a Corvette more than anything in the world. My parents told me that one day I will make enough money to buy one for myself. When the time came, I no longer wanted one as I saw the impracticalities of them.
Now that I also wanted a Mercedes, and can now afford one, I no longer want one. Why? With all the car jackings going on and people being knocked off just for their cars, I wouldn't chance it. To me that would be just asking for it! Give me a Japanese Econobox that has been built in America, or a BOL Eurpeoan car anyday.

Daimler has never had much luck with companies they have purchased. Look at the mess they made of Fokker Aircraft.
To tell you the truth, I am disappointed in the German management of Chrysler. They are known for exceptional engineering and innovation skills, but then again, Chrysler was a near basket case when they acquired it.
I think that the Jeep division will be spun off to another manufacturer and the Mopar stuff will either be disolved or radiaclly changed.
 
You keep referring to Innovation in American Cars

Thats not how its seen in other parts of the world.

In Australia and the UK (Has anyone seen Top Gear) compared to the local and imported Asian/Euro designs, they constantly bag the outdated american stuff that comes from the US big 3. The rest of the world doesnt see anything the US is doing as innovative. The styling has barely changed since the 80's and anything updated does seem to be about Bling.

When we were in the US last year we had a Taurus rental. It was almost identical to the Taurus and Falcon that was on the market in Australia in 1997 and it couldnt sell over here then because the styling was so far behind the Australian designed 1996 model Falcon.

Look at the new Pontiac coming to the US that is based on the Australian GMH Commodore. That car is based on the European Opel design that has been Australianised. The GM Large global car platform has come from Europe to Australia and now onto the US.

I'm not trying to start an all out War here, but there is a reason that the US big 3 are in trouble, and there is no point in them trying to blame anyone else. If Toyota can now make cars profitabley in the US, and is on track to start selling more vehicles than GM, it must be in the method and design rather than the US market itself.

On a seperate note, during our 3 weeks in the US, I was absoluted shocked to see the effects of a country with no universal health care. San Francisco was unbeleivably frightening at times, due to the incredibly high proportion of homeless/beggers and the High proportion of Mental illness that goes with that. It reached the point where we travelled entirely on the Cable cars because we got sick of fights and the yelling and screaming whilst on the trams.

In Australia, we are lucky enough that no person need ever be homeless or without healthcare and seeing what parts of the US can be like, it made us appreciate that very much.
 
Well in Al Gores "An Inconvenient Truth" Australia isnt exactly leading the world in the evironmental issues, design asside. Your as bad as us. :P

Ask the Canadians where they go when they need an MRI say sometime before they die on a waiting list. This government is so stupified I most assuredly DO NOT want them managing my health care. I want less interference from them, not more.
 
The PM has finally acknowledged global warming

and he is slowly starting to make murmours about carbon trading. It has taken a while though :)

He's been pro nuclear to cut Greenhouse emissions, however the rest of the country is strongly opposed.

We're heavily dependant on Coal for power generation.
 
Ask the Canadians where they go when they need an MRI say so

More Republican propaganda. No one needing immediate or emergency care goes on a waiting list for an MRI in Canada. Heck I was at the doctors last year for routine stuff, some stress etc and he had me booked for an MRI in 2 days. Granted there are some waiting lists for some surgeries in Canada such as knee replacements etc but those are non life threatening and naturally people here will gripe about "the wait" but they'd be griping even more if they were handed a bill for tens of thousands of dollars or paying hundreds or thousands a month for health insurance and still possibily denied because they're HMO wouldn't cover it. All I ever here on the radio here from Michigan are one ad after another for health insurance or one hospital competing against another for customers. I'll take our system any day.
 
Nathan...

You are so right about American cars. They are well past it now. I think that even Americans are tiring of the low quality and blandness of the cars. The "big" 3 are in lots of trouble. They brought it on themselves. I personally have been a victim of FOUR lousy GM cars. I really do not care what it looks like, but if I am throwing down 18 or 19 grand then I want a car that is not in need of mechanical attention every month. It should last longer than a year or two. In this country, the citizens are going to reach a point here soon where we will spend 5 or 10% more just to get a QUALITY product no matter where it is made. The days of cheap wal mart cars are over. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler realize this, things may turn around for them. My Honda is made right here in Ohio paying many employees good wages and healthcare not to mention the taxes down in Marysville. It is a quality product. So I know that Americans can do it. We just need to have companies that will let Americans be innovative and not just look at the bottom line...

Just my two cents...

--Tom
 
The worst part about the whole bit is the poor quality of the Mercedes products! Growing up in the eighties, I remember that Mercedes vehicles were regarded as the pinnacle of engineering. They were some of the most durable cars on the road. 20 years later, that still holds true. Thousands of those old 240D and 300D and many other models are still cruising around with amazing amounts of mileage numbers on them...many of them out-living their modern counterparts. In many cases the same M-B car that would bring a child home from the hospital became the same car that the child learned to drive when he/she became 16 years old!

A few years back, I owned a 1978 450SL 2-seat sports car. Although the car was over 20 years old, it still drove like a new car, and looked it too, with a paint job that was unparalleled to any other vehicle. The car's V8 engine had EFI, which was a remarkable thing back then, and unlike cars from other makes, it had lots of power, started perfectly on the first crank, and ran silky smooth! M-B went the extra mile to use all the highest grade materials to build this car out of and it showed!

I am still mad at myself for selling that car, but I did need something with a bit more room in it than a 2-seater. Sadly, none of their current products will be the multi-generational vehicles previously enjoyed...they went the way many great American appliances went
 
No it isnt republican propaganda, but an actual fact in point. Canadians were coming here (Detroit) for MRI's in the 90's due to a two year waiting list in Canada. I hope its better now for the Canadians. Our system is far from even good, but polititians and government cannot even provide assistance for American college students but find billions to kill on a global scale. I do not want them managing my health care.
 
Hi Pinksket, we're wayyyy off topic here LOL but you are right in one sense of the matter and I'll try and explain why some people do in fact go to the US to get an immediate MRI. It is illegal in Canada to operate a "for profit" hospital or "for profit" clinic that does not follow the rules set down by the Canada Health Act which stipulates that access cannot be denied to any Canadian regardless of their inability to pay for such services. In some cases I would hazzard a guess that the persons doctor has deemed that an MRI isn't actually necessary but if they want one they can get it but since it isn't deemed a necessity or they are not life threatened they are just going to have to wait or "cross the border, pay for it yourself, and bring the results back" MRI's are a highly expensive tool to purchase and operate for any hospital and that's where the difference is. Sure they could put more in the hospitals here which they have done but then you run into the scenario of everyone wanting one for every little broken finger or muscle sprain and overtaxing the health care system on frivilous requests. Now when it comes to border crossing Canadians looking for instant MRI's what is more of a concern here and seldom if ever mentioned on any US newscast are the hundreds of Americans from surrounding US states coming into Canada with faked/stolen Canadian id's or using their Canadian relatives id's to get "free" surgeries because they don't have any insurance back home. Had you heard of that before?
 
Very cautiously,

I submit that Americans are a very creative and hard working folk.
The quality problems are a result of many factors, not least the isolation of the country for so very many years from the global markets.
Many of my American family and friends genuinely believe the US still is the world leader in every field. These people have never been outside of the US.
Every single one of my family and friends who have been to Europe or Asia, however, are shocked by the lack of crime, the clean streets, the health care, the high quality of goods and the technological superiority to 'back home'.
I can well understand how someone who is wealthy and has only heard the horror stories the Republicans promulgate could believe that all health care is 'socialized medicine' and doesn't work.
Speaking only for Germany, it does work and it works a damn sight better than the horrible way the elderly and the poor are treated in this country.
So what does the US have to offer the world?
Well, customer service (not counting Circuit City) is so much better here than in Europe it is like heaven and hell. My German friends always speak of "ueberflaechlichkeit", but I'd rather someone smile at me than glare at me when I enter a store.
Another thing Americans are great at is optimism. There's gotta be a way! We can do it!
I think, ultimately, the US will get back on track again.
The economic pressure coupled with the disaster which this christianist administration has brought on the country (I count the senseless death of over 3,000 young American men and women as a disaster) will ultimately lead to some rethinking of fundamental values.
Of course, that optimism is my American side showing through...
 
I haven't been over to Europe or the UK since the early 70s so I can't really comment on anything over there but it was interesting that when my UK cousin were over here 2 summers ago his wife mentioned out of the blue one day we were in Kmart or Walmart or someplace how much more friendly the sales people were as to back home in the UK.
 
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