Whither Goes Chrysler?

[sudsmaster]

I own a small amount of stock in Daimler-Chrysler (I prefer the Chrysler side of the equation. I was shocked when I opened up my proxy statement today and found a proposal submitted for voting, which detailed that the name of the corporation be returned to the old "Daimler-Benz AG" moniker, "not later than March 31, 2008", leaving Chrysler out of it completely.

To add insult to insult, the proposal went on to say things like, "Maintaining a corporate name that evokes associations with teh failure of the business combination with Chryselr is deterimental to the image of the corporation and its products....this... can only be borne at most for a short transition period until there is a peroper separation from Chrysler ... If a proper separation cannot be affected within on eyear, this would only serve to underscore the need to remove this affliction on the image from the corporation's name."

To be fair, this proposal came not from DC management, but from a couple of German shareholders by the names of Prof.Dr. Ekkehard Wenger and Dr. Leonhard Knoll. DC management, in the same proxy, stated, "The requested amendments... are neither necessary nor appropriate. The DaimlerChrysler name is established all over the world. There are no grounds to change the name of the corporation. "

This is, however, under the buzz about DC looking for someone to buy off its currently money losing Chrysler branch - at a big loss. It may still happen. However I'd also like to point out that when Daimler "merged" with Chrysler, the American firm was the most profitable automaker in the world. The Mercedes division was losing money. Susequent problems at Chrysler were not unique among American automakers, but perhaps have been compounded by Daimler's inability (or unwillingness) to truly merge the two companies and gain synergistic benefits from sharing both engineering and styling talent.

That these proposals, which look like they won't pass, have come up at all is somewhat indicative of a strong anti-Chrysler sentiment within the old Daimler-Benz company. I suppose it's part of the general disdain that Germans have for American products - but it's worth noting that Mercedes vehicles generally score near the bottom of Consumer Reports' reliabiity surveys.

What does this have to do with appliances? Not much, but it is somewhat familiar - we've seen Maytag swallowed up recently by Whirlpool, and many other appliance makers have fallen by the wayside over the years, only to be kept alive in name only as rebadged parent corporation products.

Personally, I'd be happier if Chrysler were to become an independent corporation again, but I think the Mercedes side of DC has really goofed on this one - they had a great opportunity to produce a stunning world car, by combining German engineering with American manufacturing efficiency, and blew it. It may be too late to recover, but I hope we'll be seeing Chrysler products in showrooms from some time to come.

What success Chrysler has had in the past couple year has in fact been in part due to greater cooperation between the two companies - for example, the best selling Chrysler 300 sedan utilizes Mercedes suspension, albeit from a dated model. But it may be too little, too late.

 

[2drumsallergy]

If memory serves me correctly the Chrysler Corporation was founded in 1924 by Walter Percy Chrysler.
I truly saddens me to see this great company being destroyed. I hope it does not end up being just a memory.
Remember AMC.

 

[petek]

I don't follow the car biz much anymore and my interest in new cars has waned considerably to almost zip nowadays. Where once I could tell just about any car on the road it's the exact opposite now with few exceptions most being Chryslers. They seem to have aced it in the styling department. The 300's are very popular as are their Dodge cousins, the gangsta-mobiles I think of them. Our roads are cluttered with Dodge Ram 1500's including the one in our driveway. I dunno what happened to the PT Cruiser, they were fairly common sights on the roads the last few years but I see nary a one around here these days except for Jennys Floral Shop delivery cruiser up the road. Oh and the Town & Country / Caravan vans, kazillions of those as well.

 

[panthera]

not true

It is absolutely not true that Germans hold American products in disdain.
Germans, such as myself, who grew up familiar with the tremendous creativity, engineering and superior design American products embodied - together with high quality - up to the mid-1970's are very disappointed by what the trend US manufacturers have taken in the last forty years or so.
Instead of bashing us for pointing out that nothing built in the US today comes even close to a real thumper, why not take a real look at US quality/price versus what the Europeans and Chinese are offering?
It is no coincidence that a tremendous number of American trained, born and bred engineers are working abroad. They would rather work for companies which appreciate their creativity and outstanding education than for domestic firms which scorn anything expect the manager's salary.
The Daimler-Chrysler marriage was doomed from the start. The arrogance of Jürgen Schremp and his arschküssende managers was 99% of the problem. If he had been honest with the American side of the family and with the German house, this constellation would never have been approved.
I still get a hard-on over Chargers when their hemi roars to life. Chrysler deserved better.
But bashing others won't solve the problem...a casual reading of the German entries in this forum will show that, apart from me, no Germans make disparaging comments.
At all.

 

[sudsmaster]

Um, I didn't think I was bashing Germans when I quoted two German stockholders who didn't have very nice things to say about Chrysler. That Germans held American products in high regard until the 1970's is nice, but doesn't mean that they still hold the same opinion today. Certainly Drs. Wenger and Knoll don't. But no, I had no intention of bashing Germans and I don't think I did.

Yes, Shrempp was rather disengenuous before the merger. But I can't believe that Bob Eaton (CEO) and Bob Lutz (VP) were unaware of the probable result of the merger they engineered with Schrempp. That merger made a lot of car fans quite unhappy on both sides of the pond - the Chrysler fans in the USA and the Mercedes fans in Europe. There is plenty of blame to go around on this one.

I have read that one of Chrysler's problems is that it has over $16 Billion in long term debt in the form of obligations to cover medical care for retired employees. This makes the company a rather unattractive buy for a lot of suitors. I think Daimler-Benz bought Chrysler back in 1999 for $17 billion. Now the best offers range around $5 billion.

What is unfortunate is that innovation on the Chrysler side seems to have died with the merger. The 300 is a nice car and all, but it's a gas guzzling throwback. Chrysler has no fuel-efficient small cars in the hopper; the replacement for the Neon, the Calibre, is getting dismal reviews from all quarters, as are the Jeep versions based upon it (Compass and Patriot). Of all their cars, I like the wagon version of the 300, the Dodge Magnum, the best, as it combines good style with a lot of practicality, but it's sort of an anomaly. Hand-me-down obsolete Mercedes components won't make a cutting edge vehicle for Chrysler, either.

Oh, and Walter P. Chrysler - a great engineer in his own right - was of German-American heritage (his grandfather's name was something more like "Kreisler"). He started out as a mechanic for the American railroads, made all his own tools (as was the custom at the time), became a master mechanic and ran the railroad's mechanical operations. When he got enough cash (sympathetic banker) he bought a Locomobile and took it completely apart and put it back together again before even taking it for a spin. From there on his career soared. He was brought in to rescue the Maxwell Corp and turned that into Chrysler Corp with his trend-setting 1924 Chrysler Six. Sadly the 1934 Airflow - a superior engineering achievement - was saddled with a face only a locomotive engineer could love - and for two decades after that Chrysler Corp became a styling backwater, afraid to do anything daring or unconventional. That turned around in the mid-50's, with the "Forward Look" that rivaled similar trends in appliances like the "Sheer Look" in the Frigidaire lineup. A hiccup in the early 60's resulted in some of the ugliest grills ever made, but the styling recovered nicely by '64 and today late 60's/early 70's Chrysler corp muscle cars (like the Charger, Challenger, Barracuda) net prices in the hundreds of thousands in classic car auctions.

Remember AMC? Of course I do. Chrysler bought that up in the 80's - primarily to get its Jeep division. But a hidden prize was AMC's engineering/design department, which was managing to field an impressive lineup of cars with a very small department by structuring around platforms instead of around brands and models. This led to the LH platform lineup, and the idea continues today with the 300/Magnum; Sebring/Stratus/Avenger, Calibre/Compass/Patriot, etc...

I'm actually of a mixed opinion on how I should vote on the name change proposal. In a sense I think the best thing that could happen to Chrysler would be to become independed again, free to innovate on its own without having to answer to a foreign company's needs first. But I'm a realist and I would prefer Chrysler stay with Daimler rather than become a division of Chery.

 

[panthera]

Me, too

I do think the company owes it to their Chrysler division to make up for the shit they pulled. Lots of German shareholders are furious at what they were saddled with, lots of Americans were just plain lied to. Schremp & Co. were a nasty piece of work.
I don't know any solutions...it just seems like, if a tiny little country like Germany or Italy can keep it's domestic production going, a big whopping country like the US should be able to support three domestic car makers, too. If only for the sake of competition.

 

[maytagbear]

It was said in a prior post

medical coverage!

We need Health Care FINANCE REFORM in this country, desperately.

We don't need health care reform. Our health care can be quite excellent. We need health care finance reform, and probably a single payer.

ALL of my doctors agree with me on this. From my internist to my cardiologist to my gastroenterologist.

If employers weren't saddled with ridiculous health care expenses for current and former employees, things would be better for everyone in this country.

It breaks my heart. When I drove, I drove Chrysler cars (mostly Plymouths).

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[wannapinkset]

You could see that coming when they merged. At least I did.

I used to work for a few German companies. They do not appreciate American engineering, design, or much of anything we do beyond cheap labor. It will eventually not resemble anything American or one of the big three. We are bad off here in Michigan due to our dependance on one product manufactured. I dont blame them, but there is nothing currently to replace them.

I was treated fairly by the Germans but there is a decided ceiling for natives. German American or not (I am).

Health care reform is needed but not just at one level. We pay the most in the world for prescription drugs, Dr. visits, and testing procedures. Its simple greed, nothing more. This country also must learn to do for themselves and allow people to take care of themselves some. Internet drugs are being made illegal to buy in many states but for us, its cheaper to buy them when you know what you need than to pay 185.00 for a Dr. office visit and then 40.00 co-pay for a generic medicince all the while running all over town as opposed to ordering a drug online for 169.00 delivered by fedex. Its not rocket science and I dont need a Dr to figure out I need a refill or whatever. If you dont know thats when you go. This however threatens a Dr.s 5 minutes fir 185.00 practice and the lifestyle they have become accustomed too.

 

[whirlcool]

With the exception of the Jeep lineup, I think most Chrysler cars are styled with the ghetto bling bling market in mind. And Mercedes is not too far behind.
Here is a story for you:

When I was a teen, I wanted a Corvette more than anything in the world. My parents told me that one day I will make enough money to buy one for myself. When the time came, I no longer wanted one as I saw the impracticalities of them.
Now that I also wanted a Mercedes, and can now afford one, I no longer want one. Why? With all the car jackings going on and people being knocked off just for their cars, I wouldn't chance it. To me that would be just asking for it! Give me a Japanese Econobox that has been built in America, or a BOL Eurpeoan car anyday.

Daimler has never had much luck with companies they have purchased. Look at the mess they made of Fokker Aircraft.
To tell you the truth, I am disappointed in the German management of Chrysler. They are known for exceptional engineering and innovation skills, but then again, Chrysler was a near basket case when they acquired it.
I think that the Jeep division will be spun off to another manufacturer and the Mopar stuff will either be disolved or radiaclly changed.

 

[brisnat81]

You keep referring to Innovation in American Cars

Thats not how its seen in other parts of the world.

In Australia and the UK (Has anyone seen Top Gear) compared to the local and imported Asian/Euro designs, they constantly bag the outdated american stuff that comes from the US big 3. The rest of the world doesnt see anything the US is doing as innovative. The styling has barely changed since the 80's and anything updated does seem to be about Bling.

When we were in the US last year we had a Taurus rental. It was almost identical to the Taurus and Falcon that was on the market in Australia in 1997 and it couldnt sell over here then because the styling was so far behind the Australian designed 1996 model Falcon.

Look at the new Pontiac coming to the US that is based on the Australian GMH Commodore. That car is based on the European Opel design that has been Australianised. The GM Large global car platform has come from Europe to Australia and now onto the US.

I'm not trying to start an all out War here, but there is a reason that the US big 3 are in trouble, and there is no point in them trying to blame anyone else. If Toyota can now make cars profitabley in the US, and is on track to start selling more vehicles than GM, it must be in the method and design rather than the US market itself.

On a seperate note, during our 3 weeks in the US, I was absoluted shocked to see the effects of a country with no universal health care. San Francisco was unbeleivably frightening at times, due to the incredibly high proportion of homeless/beggers and the High proportion of Mental illness that goes with that. It reached the point where we travelled entirely on the Cable cars because we got sick of fights and the yelling and screaming whilst on the trams.

In Australia, we are lucky enough that no person need ever be homeless or without healthcare and seeing what parts of the US can be like, it made us appreciate that very much.

 

[wannapinkset]

Well in Al Gores "An Inconvenient Truth" Australia isnt exactly leading the world in the evironmental issues, design asside. Your as bad as us.

Ask the Canadians where they go when they need an MRI say sometime before they die on a waiting list. This government is so stupified I most assuredly DO NOT want them managing my health care. I want less interference from them, not more.

 

[brisnat81]

The PM has finally acknowledged global warming

and he is slowly starting to make murmours about carbon trading. It has taken a while though

He's been pro nuclear to cut Greenhouse emissions, however the rest of the country is strongly opposed.

We're heavily dependant on Coal for power generation.

 

[petek]

Ask the Canadians where they go when they need an MRI say so

More Republican propaganda. No one needing immediate or emergency care goes on a waiting list for an MRI in Canada. Heck I was at the doctors last year for routine stuff, some stress etc and he had me booked for an MRI in 2 days. Granted there are some waiting lists for some surgeries in Canada such as knee replacements etc but those are non life threatening and naturally people here will gripe about "the wait" but they'd be griping even more if they were handed a bill for tens of thousands of dollars or paying hundreds or thousands a month for health insurance and still possibily denied because they're HMO wouldn't cover it. All I ever here on the radio here from Michigan are one ad after another for health insurance or one hospital competing against another for customers. I'll take our system any day.

 

[myhooverco]

Nathan...

You are so right about American cars. They are well past it now. I think that even Americans are tiring of the low quality and blandness of the cars. The "big" 3 are in lots of trouble. They brought it on themselves. I personally have been a victim of FOUR lousy GM cars. I really do not care what it looks like, but if I am throwing down 18 or 19 grand then I want a car that is not in need of mechanical attention every month. It should last longer than a year or two. In this country, the citizens are going to reach a point here soon where we will spend 5 or 10% more just to get a QUALITY product no matter where it is made. The days of cheap wal mart cars are over. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler realize this, things may turn around for them. My Honda is made right here in Ohio paying many employees good wages and healthcare not to mention the taxes down in Marysville. It is a quality product. So I know that Americans can do it. We just need to have companies that will let Americans be innovative and not just look at the bottom line...

Just my two cents...

--Tom

 

[Cybrvanr]

The worst part about the whole bit is the poor quality of the Mercedes products! Growing up in the eighties, I remember that Mercedes vehicles were regarded as the pinnacle of engineering. They were some of the most durable cars on the road. 20 years later, that still holds true. Thousands of those old 240D and 300D and many other models are still cruising around with amazing amounts of mileage numbers on them...many of them out-living their modern counterparts. In many cases the same M-B car that would bring a child home from the hospital became the same car that the child learned to drive when he/she became 16 years old!

A few years back, I owned a 1978 450SL 2-seat sports car. Although the car was over 20 years old, it still drove like a new car, and looked it too, with a paint job that was unparalleled to any other vehicle. The car's V8 engine had EFI, which was a remarkable thing back then, and unlike cars from other makes, it had lots of power, started perfectly on the first crank, and ran silky smooth! M-B went the extra mile to use all the highest grade materials to build this car out of and it showed!

I am still mad at myself for selling that car, but I did need something with a bit more room in it than a 2-seater. Sadly, none of their current products will be the multi-generational vehicles previously enjoyed...they went the way many great American appliances went

 

[wannapinkset]

No it isnt republican propaganda, but an actual fact in point. Canadians were coming here (Detroit) for MRI's in the 90's due to a two year waiting list in Canada. I hope its better now for the Canadians. Our system is far from even good, but polititians and government cannot even provide assistance for American college students but find billions to kill on a global scale. I do not want them managing my health care.

 

[petek]

Hi Pinksket, we're wayyyy off topic here LOL but you are right in one sense of the matter and I'll try and explain why some people do in fact go to the US to get an immediate MRI. It is illegal in Canada to operate a "for profit" hospital or "for profit" clinic that does not follow the rules set down by the Canada Health Act which stipulates that access cannot be denied to any Canadian regardless of their inability to pay for such services. In some cases I would hazzard a guess that the persons doctor has deemed that an MRI isn't actually necessary but if they want one they can get it but since it isn't deemed a necessity or they are not life threatened they are just going to have to wait or "cross the border, pay for it yourself, and bring the results back" MRI's are a highly expensive tool to purchase and operate for any hospital and that's where the difference is. Sure they could put more in the hospitals here which they have done but then you run into the scenario of everyone wanting one for every little broken finger or muscle sprain and overtaxing the health care system on frivilous requests. Now when it comes to border crossing Canadians looking for instant MRI's what is more of a concern here and seldom if ever mentioned on any US newscast are the hundreds of Americans from surrounding US states coming into Canada with faked/stolen Canadian id's or using their Canadian relatives id's to get "free" surgeries because they don't have any insurance back home. Had you heard of that before?

 

[panthera]

Very cautiously,

I submit that Americans are a very creative and hard working folk.
The quality problems are a result of many factors, not least the isolation of the country for so very many years from the global markets.
Many of my American family and friends genuinely believe the US still is the world leader in every field. These people have never been outside of the US.
Every single one of my family and friends who have been to Europe or Asia, however, are shocked by the lack of crime, the clean streets, the health care, the high quality of goods and the technological superiority to 'back home'.
I can well understand how someone who is wealthy and has only heard the horror stories the Republicans promulgate could believe that all health care is 'socialized medicine' and doesn't work.
Speaking only for Germany, it does work and it works a damn sight better than the horrible way the elderly and the poor are treated in this country.
So what does the US have to offer the world?
Well, customer service (not counting Circuit City) is so much better here than in Europe it is like heaven and hell. My German friends always speak of "ueberflaechlichkeit", but I'd rather someone smile at me than glare at me when I enter a store.
Another thing Americans are great at is optimism. There's gotta be a way! We can do it!
I think, ultimately, the US will get back on track again.
The economic pressure coupled with the disaster which this christianist administration has brought on the country (I count the senseless death of over 3,000 young American men and women as a disaster) will ultimately lead to some rethinking of fundamental values.
Of course, that optimism is my American side showing through...

 

[petek]

I haven't been over to Europe or the UK since the early 70s so I can't really comment on anything over there but it was interesting that when my UK cousin were over here 2 summers ago his wife mentioned out of the blue one day we were in Kmart or Walmart or someplace how much more friendly the sales people were as to back home in the UK.

 

[brisnat81]

We did find the over arching friendlyness

We visited in Early summer and hit upon the Summer sales.

We shopped up big in Macy's in NY (Love that out of state removal of sales tax) and in the end we had 2 sales assistants following us around carrying our possible purchases. That would never happen in Australia.

The hard part for us, was trying to figure out the appropriate times to tip. Service in AU is expected (But not to that level) so we struggled with when we should and shouldnt.

 

[Cybrvanr]

'm sorry, but you've rubbed me the wrong way with that post. Kevin, please do not link Christianity to the war in Iraq. There is no connection whatsoever! Yes, Bush is a Christian, and yes, he stirred the whole mess up, but there are Christians out there (IE myself) that do not support the war in Iraq (yes, there are also some that do support it to). I do not believe President Bush based his decision to start the Iraq war on a Christian motive. I, and many other Christians would prefer to see our troops come home and protect OUR country, not someone else's.

When you speak of socialized medecine, or "free" healthcare provided at the expense of taxes, you must realize that when it is set up in other countries, those countries also have different governments. Looking at the track record of the United States Government, things to NOT get done efficiently, correctly, or cheaply. Generally, if you give the United States Government control over it, they will screw it up and waste your money doing it!!!! Do you really want that to happen? I mean look at other government success stores, like our schools, where kids graduate not knowing how to read, or our highways that are gridlocked all hours of the day and night, our space program that is running vehicles older than most people's cars. You mentioned crime, which yep, the enforcement thereof is BINGO! government operated!

I admit I am very libreatarian, and it's because I see how the government screws stuff up and wastes enormous amounts of money. Besides, our forefather set this country up as a FREE country, not a socialist country where the government does everything for the citizens....it's the other way around, the citizens work for the welfare of the country! THIS my friend is the reason why the United States government screws things up so much...it was simply not designed by our constution to do such!!! There is such a thing call responsibility that plays a big part in life here, and if you don't take it, it's your own fault if you flounder!

I am not much of an optimist here as you have probably figured out by my post. You are right in the fact that other countries are whipping our a$$ when it comes to technology. European appliances, along with other technology is far more advanced. In America, greed rules, and we've let a bunch of baby-boomers and day-traders gut our greatest companies on the stock exchange for a quick buck! Anyways, do any of you all know what the U.S.'s largest export is? It's media! No, not tapes, CD's and the technology that runs it, it's what's recorded on that material... That's right! Hollywood trash!!! Not only is America not known for it's technology and engineering anymore, it's now known as the place where all the sleezy actors, music, scandals, and other smut comes from. No wonder terrorists attack us! They want to get that crap off the planet!

As a fellow American, I say let's get off our lazy butts and get back to work! Stop waiting for the government to support you, support yourself, and support your country by making your private business the best it can be. Be it designing the better washing machine, or simply helping the lady next door. The hard work of every citizen counts here. It doesn't matter if you are Christian, jew, Muslum, Hindu, Buddist, whatever, this country will only suceed if we make it, don't whine to the government if it doesn't!

 

[panthera]

Steven,

Thanks for your thoughts. I said "christianist" not Christian, by the way. There is a difference.
Certainly, as a gay man I have my problems with many Christians but the term christianist is increasingly used to describe the hate-filled people who find justification for their hatred in "their" bible.
Big difference.
I surely don't want to sound like I am lecturing here, but our health-care system in Germany is not socialist.
Actually, very little of what most folks in the US call socialist, is.
As long as we are on the subject, despite universal health care, our capitalists have a higher ROI than in the US (not just recently, but for many many years now). Our children are much better educated and we have civil rights such as habeas corpus and the right to criticize our political leaders which you do not enjoy. Oh, and we are also at war, fighting alongside you in Afgahnistan...a legal war.
The two rights were written into our constitution by the US back in 1948, along with many other freedoms which your country has surrendered in the last years.
I am sorry you are so pessimistic, your country is really a much better place than you seem to think it is.
Forgive me for ranting, but, the whole reason for a society is because no one is an island to themselves and we all need to stand together and help each other at times. Lots of folks in the US end up in trouble despite having lived good solid hard working lives.

 

[bigbubbacain]

a few things about the Daimler-Chrysler conglomerate don&#39

Mercedes has always had a legacy for reliable and efficient diesel engines. Their latest offerings using the TDI-direct rail technology are some of the cleanest and quietest ever. On the other other side of the pond....their Dodge trucks with the Cummins Turbodiesel have MPG ratings as poor as gas engines. In fact, the big 3 in Detroit only offer diesels in a 3/4 ton truck b/c 3/4 ton trucks are not required to disclose mileage ratings on the window sticker. If they really wanted to, Daimler could share their wealth of technology about efficient clean-burning diesels with Chrysler. Apparently they have no desire for this. Q'uelle damage! Incidentally, most of these Mercedes vehicles which are lacking in reliability are assembled in Alabama. (don't get me wrong. I love Alabama) The issue with location of assembly is probably neither here nor there because my older Tundra pickup is the best vehicle I've ever owned and it was built in Tennessee. I agree with you, Whirlcool, Chrysler is putting too much emphasis on 'Bling'. I'd need to put gold foil on my teeth if I were to consider owning one.

 

[alr2903]

Bling Bling

The Chrysler 300 really appeals to me. I just like the style of it. Guess I will keep truckin with the Frontier for now, The 300 is Low to the ground and we still have streets here that quickly become flooded, all of the debris from katrina still has not been purged out of the storm drain system. Being able to get home after a day in the cubicle with a never ending ringing phone is just more appealing. ahhh, Substance or Style. IIRC it was the "k" frame/style car that pulled Chrysler from the brink of financial failure in the 80's? Maybe it will work out for them. I guess the financial playing field is much different Now though than it was in the 80's and with the mergers with Daimler etc. Maybe whirlpool will buy them too

 

[petek]

I like the looks of the 300 & Dodge Charger/Magnum, not that I would buy one but they are unmistakably a Chrysler. I like the look of our Dodge 1500 Ram as well over the Fords and GM. So far it's been pretty good but it's early yet, not even a year. Runs well, is very quiet inside for a truck, the quality of the interior plastics leaves a little to be desired, and it's quick of the mark. More often than not I'm doing jackrabbit starts LOL

 

[wannapinkset]

Ok, well No, I never heard of people getting a fake Canadian card to get healthcare. Sounds like a Canadian thing to do. I have heard of many Americans getting scripts from you canooks, hey. I prefer Mexico, no Dr that way. I have heard of people going to India for hip replacements for 4500.00 (airfare included) and doing well as opposed to 38,000.00 here with horrendous complications.

As far as topic, I want an H3 anyways. I can bring home more washers and dryers that way and they have a bose sound system.

 

[whirlcool]

I think one reason our medical prices are so high here in the US is that most doctors and hospitals think that most everyone has insurance and it's not really the patient who pays, but some huge deep pocketed insurance company that pays. The people who are uninsured are just "invisible".
Once I asked one of my doctors if they were aware of what medical testing costs these days. The response? " I don't keep up with that, if a patient needs a test, I am going to send them for it!"
BTW, more on subject, I do like Dodge trucks. They have a nice look to them, but they are horriffic with fuel mileage. My neighbor said he gets about 12-14 with his Dodge RAM, conventional engine.

 

[petek]

We get about 14 mpg with the Hemi MDS. A few days ago when I was walking out of the ReStore an old guy driving a 2005 1500 approached me to see where we got our box liner and top. In the ensuing chat I asked him how his mileage was and he regaled me about going here and there, all the little towns around etc etc and only using about a 1/4 tank in the past week. I asked him if he had checked the "computer" above the rear view mirror and he didn't even know that feature was there so when I pressed it for his actual MPG he was at about 11.7 so I didn't feel so bad about ours.

 

[johnb300m]

Chrysler Disaster - My Thoughts

Chrysler........what do I say about thee. I've been a Chrysler fan since I was a little kid, working on our 83' New Yorker with my dad. Our family has always owned their products and has been generally "very happy" with them. We love the way they look, feel, drive etc. Chrysler cars always seemed to have a certain "personality" to them. Something that I’ve sensed is GONE in their new 2005 and up products. They've lost their identity. One negative though, is they DO seem to be quite thirsty vehicles. The highway MPG in my v6 2002 Stratus is quite good at 30-35, but the city MPG is awful at under 20. Plus the tierod end bearings just died at 56,500 miles....that seems much too soon. Other than that, so far so good.

Then there's the whole merger issue. Chrysler was a basket case before the merger I think for two reasons. I've read Iacocca's books as well as the "Merger" book. What I can tell, is that Bob Eaton was the root of the problem. Iacocca even claims that handing the company to Eaton was the largest mistake he made in his life. That is why Iacocca joined Kerkorian for that takeover in the early 90's, to undo his mistake. However, Eaton pumped all the company’s resources into fighting that takeover, leaving it pretty bare with its eyes off the ball. Eaton let the company get messy despite having tons of cash on hand [aprox. 10 billion $]. Eaton realized the mess [not that he made it of course] and the overcapacity and started hunting for a merger buddy. Eaton, again, is the reason for the merger due to his delinquent actions, and his stupidity and ease of being played by Schrempp.
Those are just some of my ideas.

I'm really feeling betrayed by Dieter Zetsche. He came in and really got into the nitty-gritty at Chrysler. He seemed to care about the company and worked his ass off with Bernhardt to get the company up and running and I respect him for that. But bailing on the Company he restored...just saddens me.
Chrysler has so much potential, it always has; it's the renegade car company that is bold and tries new things, usually succeeding. But it needs an enema to clear some blockages and get the creative juices flowing again...........EWWWWW.

But....maybe this is for the best. Benz always stymied Chrysler and never respected it as a business partner. They just used it for its cash. Because of that, they're no better than any of our U.S corporations, and they've lost my respect.
Interestingly, Chrysler's most likely buyer seems to be a Canadian Auto Supplier. This COULD be good news. They're a reputable company and know a thing or two about cars. Magna International. Hopefully they can realize Chrysler's potential and build it up, repair it, get it all shiny, and watch it do its thing.

Another HUGE issue for the domestic industry is the UAW and their legacy costs. These are enormous drains on the companies, and I think that financial toilet [UAW] is preventing alot of money from going to R & D where it belongs. That's why our cars, though of much better quality than the past, are not very technologically advanced like the rest of the world.
In essence, Detroit and the UAW did this to themselves, and don't seem to get it yet. Because people are stupid, they won't get it until their employers are out of business. The average UAW American worker is NOT internationally competitive. You can't sweep floors and install headlamps for 35 dollars an hour when your counterpart in Mexico is doing it for much much less.

There are so many factors, more than can be simply discussed in a forum. And I do not think this country and industry want to pay attention to these factors because they're "bad news" and not comforting, and they're invasive to our cushy lifestyles.

I'm just going to end it there, because I could analyze forever.

PEACE

 

[wannapinkset]

Are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me? The UAW protects workers from unfair labor practices and such. Unions are in place because companies could not and will not set in place and maintain fair labor practices and policies. Health care costs affect everyine in this country, not just the automakers. Do any of you have a retirement you are looking forward to? What if the company just spent it instead of putting it where its supposed to go? Did you earn it? Can you just go out and get a door greater job to help yourself buy your 700.00 a month pain patch? Enron anyone? The law wont help you pay your rent at 80 years old and neither will the ceo's that earn 300% more than the one actually manufacturing the product.

Enough with the bashing of the unions. I believe in them, they stand for a better way of life for the working class and their families. Do you think just because you sit at a desk you are more entitled to earn a living for yourself and your families than the electrician (IBEW) plummber (UA) or person that assembled your car or truck (UAW)? The skilled trades have college time behind their degree and earn every blessed penny. Its hard, back breaking work. The autoworkers deal with chemicals, heavy items and repetiton bad enough to dull the mind of the most gifted person every single day. Walk a mile in their shoes before you declare them undeserving of the pay they earn every day.

Historically, workhouses used to lock women and children in to keep thm from taking breaks during a 16 hour workday. Some caught fire and every living soul perished because the man with the keys was at home. Look it up. Unions are needed for a valid reason. Dont think it can happen today? How many of you can live on 2.52 an hour? Waitress wage. No one should count on the generosity of strangers. The owners of the restaurant however drive and live lush. Yaeh, thats just and right.

CEO's make too damn much. They are parasites. Home Depot ring a bell anyone?