Who makes the best affordable gas water heater?

[volvoguy87]

I have to replace the water heater for a friend in the next day or two. He doesn't want to spend too much money (I tried to convince him to go tankless, but he wants cheap, tax credit be damned). He's looking for a 40 gal. tank, likely around a 40,000 btu burner. Who makes the best one?
Natural gas, not propane.

Thanks you guys,
Dave

 

[danemodsandy]

Dave:

It may be more complicated than a simple change of water heater, sorry to say. Code in most areas now requires a gas WH to be on a stand, to get its pilot flame above fumes that collect at floor level. That raises the overall height of the WH, which may in turn mean substantial changes to the venting for the WH.

In the house I used to be in, the water heater was $250. The stand and necessary changes to the venting were over a grand, because the WH was in a very tight utility-closet location.

 

[volvoguy87]

Location Location Location.

This WH is in a basement and is slightly elevated. The current WH has a traditional metal vent, not a power vent. There is plenty of room to adjust and reposition the vent pipe if needed. There is no expansion tank, however. Should I install one, and if so, how big an expansion tank would I need to get and how is one properly installed?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[danemodsandy]

Dave:

Someone else can hopefully answer those questions; I had to contract out that whole water heater job, because it was completely beyond me. What happened was: Water heater began leaking. Trip to Home Depot was made. New water heater was selected and installation contracted for. Contractor arrived, looked at the situation in that utility closet and turned white as a sheet. Quoted price to bring things up to code. I turned white as a sheet. Contractor explained he could not legally touch the situation without bringing it up to new code. I checked code, and found he was being truthful. I sighed, limbered up the old VISA and told him to do what was necessary.

 

[panthera]

Dave,

Whirlpool has had some serious problems with one-shot safety systems overreacting on their water heaters the last few years.

GE builds several 40Gal units with 48,000BTU or so. This puts your recovery below one hour.

We've done two GEs in the last two years, both were easy to install and the inspector (required in Fort Collins) was OK with them.

A few things to note:
You absolutely must by a new flexible gas line to the WH.
Follow the instructions on what to pipe dope and what NOT to pipe dope exactly.
Don't believe a word about how great teflon tape is, use proper pipe dope which is certified for gas and water.
Stands to raise the heater are cheap, if the height would cause problems with the current vent, just buy the fatter GE, it is smaller and that usually solves the stand + WH height problem.
Be sure the overpressure valve works and is attached to a tube which ends at least 6" above the floor (there should be one attached to the new WH, if not, don't reuse the old one).
The vent cap which comes with the new WH should be used, not the old one, they are designed to ensure the right draft for each unit.

Check for gas leaks, check for draft, then fill with water before turning on the WH.

Give it a good hour before you wonder why there's no hot water, it takes quiet a while.

Hope this helps.

 

[a440]

Bradford White!
Esp. if you want to keep a tank. Something I think important for multi machine folks.
Get A Bradford White Power Vent.
I have one and I am very impressed. It heats up in no time. 70 gallon tank here and we have never missed hot water. And I mean hot water. The exhaust is always "cool", even during summer temps. Shows the efficiency as far as fuel used.
It was well worth the investment.
Brent

 

[danemodsandy]

Keven:

Thanks for the reminder that there are squat models specifically intended to help with the height problem. What we had in the house I was in was a "perfect storm" situation, where the WH and furnace were squeezed with incredible tightness into a utility closet, leaving no margin for any but the most complex and expensive of changes; we could not possibly have gotten a larger-diametre unit into the space. Whoever built that house should never be allowed to build one again; that situation was only one of several that was problematic.

 

[volvoguy87]

Size, capacity, and position.

The size problem is somewhat complicated by a super-narrow staircase. I want to get a tall style heater because I am not sure a short one would fit down the barely 2 foot wide stairs. This is in a house built in the 1860s, long before codes would have required a proper staircase. The owner isn't an appliance nut like us and only has 1 washer and dryer (boring I know). I would like to reuse the existing flue (but not the old vent cap) rather than go to a power vent because the basement and building is brick, and I REALLY don't want to drill through it to vent horizontally. Also, he is unwilling to spend the extra money to get a power-vented unit, regardless of its efficiency. He is likely looking at a BOL 40 gallon with a 40,000 btu burner, a pilot light, and a conventional flue.

I would love to go for a high-efficiency water heater, but he is unwilling to acknowledge that a more expensive high efficiency water heater will save him a significant amount on his utility bills. I would at least like to get him a water heater that will be reliable. The one I am replacing is a 32 gallon with a 30,000 btu burner (or maybe it's a 30 gallon with a 32,000 btu burner). It has a sticker indicating a 1-year tank warranty (the tank corroded and burst) and I seriously doubt it is more than 4 years old. This is the cheapest water heater I have ever seen. The one that predated this one is still in the basement because he just never got around to hauling it out!

I'm all for saving a buck, but there is a definite line between thrifty and cheap,
Dave

 

[polkanut]

Dave,

Check out Ruud, and AO Smith brands. These are the 2 brands that I've had the most experience with, and both have performed flawlessly for me. Very well built, long lasting, and available in pilot light models. Ruud brand heaters are built by Rheem. The link is a listing of the top 10 brands.

http://remodelhomeguide.com/water-heater/top-water-heater-brands.html

 

[mrb627]

A.O. Smith

AO Smith can only be installed by a qualified reseller/plumber. They don't sell to the public. As a second choice, I would go with a Ruud or a Bradford White.

Whirlpool, Maytag, and GE have had their problems. If you have to chose one of these three, the GE would be your best choice.

I just had a heater installed last week and this information is the result of my recent research.

Malcolm

 

[toggleswitch2]

Who makes the Whirlpool, Maytag and GE storage-type hot-water heaters? They look exatly like the conventional and well-established players.

I'm guessing a re-badge job goes on.

If one lives where the heating season is longer than the cooling season (north-ish), the hot water heater's heat-loss is only helping to heat the home/basment most of the time anyway. (How's THAT for justification as a psychological defense mechanism? LOL). Placing the unit in a location that is NOT air-condtioned means it is not adding to utility costs (for A/C) in summer.

The best thing about these old "clunkers" is, no computer/chip and no electricity required.

 

[polkanut]

AO Smith rebadges Kenmore, and Whirlpool heaters. Rheem/Ruud does the same for GE, Marathon, and Richmond brands.

 

[gansky1]

I have a Whirlpool brand water heat I put in about three(?) years ago. It's a 50 gallon, 40,000 BTU unit. I hate it. Wouldn't buy it again. It replaced a 50 gal., 50K BTU that was awesome. The first use in the morning (or after a long idle time) is marginally hot and runs warm to cool very quickly - very annoying in the morning especially when there is more than one shower to be done. I think the biggest problem is that when you have a large tank, the BTU rating needs to be higher according to the capacity. When this unit runs out of hot water, it takes FOREVER for it to catch up again whereas the old unit was much faster with the slightly larger burner. I know I have 16 washers hooked up and I certainly never expect any water heater to keep up with that kind of demand, but one shower in the morning and the thing takes two hours to recover? It's not my unit, the thermostat has been replaced when it was new (Lowes reluctantly allowanced out the part) and to no avail, still warm water. Roger in AZ has a Whirlpool unit and reports the exact same troubles with his. There was a problem with the flame-lock and pilot system that they sent out new parts for as a result of a lawsuit settlement but I never had trouble with that part of the heater and tossed out the parts for that when they arrived. I decided that when something does go wrong, I'll toss the entire heater into the garbage and buy "the other brand" with a larger burner.

When a good friend a few blocks from us needed a new unit, he went to a plumbing supply and got a 50 gal., 50K BTU but I'm not sure of the brand. Much better unit. It doesn't have the flame-lock system like the Whirlpool/American brand does.

 

[maytagbear]

The thing

that has not yet been mentioned is the relationship of guarantee to longevity.

Considering the difficulties in installation, your friend should NOT have a very cheap water tank. Not.

The longer the guarantee, the longer the life of the tank, USUALLY. There are exceptions, but this is generally true, that a tank guaranteed for 6-8 years will last longer than a tank guaranteed for just one year.

This was true when we owned, and is true as a renter.

My landlord replaced a dead no-name tank about three years ago with an 8 year gas GE, and it has been good. My only complaint is that since I live alone (Rosa supplies her own heated water for her bath,) he replaced a 40 gallon tank with a 30.

In my part of Ohio, the elevated platform is not yet code. I did insist that my landlord put in a new temperature-pressure valve. The tank is in an unfurnished basement directly under my living room, so I thought that would be a reasonable request.

Good luck, Dave.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[panthera]

The Whirlpool problem

is still in inventories, so I would definitely stay away from them unless you got a real deal.
The one-shot safety thermocouple is $17 at Lowe's and you can do it yourself, takes about an hour for an experienced plumber.
Yee-Haw.

There is one reason to go with GE which counts for me - their sacrificial anode does not taint the water with measurable minerals, in contrast to the Whirlpool.

Obviously, if money didn't play a role, I'd go for what everyone else is suggesting, but you said it had to be inexpensive. That is not the same as cheap.

By the by, the squat ones are not that thick - the joy of π.

You can check the draft with a lit match, and I definitely would check that the flue pipes haven't separated - experienced that with the first WH we did last year, the num-nuts had not screwed them together, just slipped them in place.

 

[panthera]

The Whirlpool problem

is still in inventories, so I would definitely stay away from them unless you got a real deal.
The one-shot safety thermocouple is $17 at Lowe's and you can do it yourself, takes about an hour for an experienced plumber.
Yee-Haw.

There is one reason to go with GE which counts for me - their sacrificial anode does not taint the water with measurable minerals, in contrast to the Whirlpool.

Obviously, if money didn't play a role, I'd go for what everyone else is suggesting, but you said it had to be inexpensive. That is not the same as cheap.

By the by, the squat ones are not that thick - the joy of π.

You can check the draft with a lit match, and I definitely would check that the flue pipes haven't separated - experienced that with the first WH we did last year, the num-nuts had not screwed them together, just slipped them in place.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Oh Gansky, i'm with you.

40 gallons needs 40,000 BTU/h
50 gallons needs 50,000 BTU/h
60 gallons needs 60,000 BTU/h
75 gallons needs 75,000 BTU/h

MINIMUM, and this seems to be the heat to capacity ratio most commonly found.

Better than (more heat per gallon) and you are leaning more TOL.
Worse than that (less heat) and you are leaning more BOL, IMHO

In a relative's home, I isuggested they use their (exisitng) oil-burner's instaneous hot water heating coil (in a staem heating system) as a preheater before the (hot) water reaches a (newly added) storage-type gas-fired hot water heater. Best of both worlds. Super-cold tap water is preheated in winter to S-T-R-E-T-C-H the capacity of the gas storage-type hot water heater. Fuel-oil here is traditionally less expensive than gas for the same jobs, so this set-up is actually more economical than usuing gas alone. The result is greater economy, nearl unlimited hot water supply, and the boiler may be shut off in summer.

With two washers, two dishwashers, and 4 bathrooms, (not to mention two teenaged girls) having hot water is a good thing!

BTW a new tankless istantaneous hot water heater that feeds its hot output to the "in" sie of a storage-type heater gives one nearty unlimited hot water and the storage type heater eliminates temperature fluctuations and problems with the instnataneous heater not engaging/igniting with a trickle flow of hot water demand.

 

[hydralique]

Hotpoint

2 1/2 years ago my water heater went out. It was Friday afternoon on Labor Day weekend, and I knew there was no way I'd be able to get a plumber out. It was also during a record hot spell with daily temps over 110 degrees in the shade. The heater is in a closet with a rather narrow door, so I went to Home Depot and found a low-end Hotpoint that just cleared the door. None of the higher end models were slender enough. So far so good, we've had no problems. The ironic part of the story is that after spending most of Saturday out in the heat (the closet is accessed from outside) to get the heater in, I was dying for a shower. Got in the shower, but was so overheated myself that after a blast of hot water I had to turn it to cold.

BTW Toggles, there is a way to get the high recovery rate of a tankless heater with the reliable temperature control of a tank type without resorting to installing a tankless and then a storage tank: the Polaris water heater. They look pretty much like a conventional tank type but are a little smaller, and have extra ducting and hoses for the burner which is basically a tankless burner. The small Polaris is 30 gal, while the large is 50 gal. Because of the burner system the small Polaris will put out like a conventional 100 gal. unit, and the 50 gal. like a conventional 100 gal. unit. They're not cheap and take a large gas line like a tankless but they really work well where you need a lot of capacity in a small space.

 

[circlew]

Hey Dave, you might want to stop over at Keidel Supply in Norwood. They sell Rheem water heaters, which my plumber says is the best. I bought almost all my fixtures from there, and was well pleased.