Why a Miele?

[3beltwesty]

re 450 buck alternator.

ronhic Re ; On another note: Paying $450 to your mechanic for Peugeot (505?) alternators when they could have been fixed is just silly.....

That price of 450 was for another working alternator, not to have somebody to fix it. The dealer's price to you as a end user back in the 1980's no less. A alternator rebuild shop wanted only 290 bucks.

The car was actually driven to and from work for a month with no working alternator. In today's prices is actual dollars double these numbers.

Thus the alternator was taken apart and we found out that the pressed in diodes in the "diode trio" are the same as GM's diodes. ie one fixes the issue oneself to not be raped via the owning the weird foreign item where one gets sometimes raped in costs.

NO mechanic was paid 450 dollars, that was the cost if one bought an alternator from the dealer; before labor to install.

Aftermarket rebuilt alternators were also over 250 bucks; at the same place where a dumb Ford or GM one was often as low as 15 bucks in the 1980's and might last 15 years or 1.5 months; ie total crapshoot

One farts around and goes to junkyards and the junkers if you find one have no alternators, some other chap did not want to get raped either in repair costs.

 

[3beltwesty]

repair software might not be availible

Re Jerrod6's "Miele because they have differences and they have the laptop computer interface used to diagnose a problem before the machine is opened This software is not available to non Miele service companies, so they start off at a disadvantage. "

In cars in the USA; we have a war with what the NON dealer repair shops want in software, and what the car makers will give.

There are actually some lawsuits no about this matter. ie one replaces a dumb switch and ones car cannot start anymore. The software has to be reset to accept the switch; and only the dealer has the software key. Thus this locks out the non dealer repair shops and home repair folks; they have one now held by ones privates. Thus to crank ones car the car has to be towed to the dealer and one pays dealer prices.

One has other risks with repairs, can one get a parts breakdown or manual even.

 

[3beltwesty]

24" machines hold less; the spin basket is smaller

<Matt; RE

"Also, as has become apparent from other threads, these "cute little dinky machines" will hold more laundry, and wash rings around most oversized American domestic machines.

The 24" machines have a smaller drum; with a smaller diameter and less deep than a 27" frame machine's spin basket.

Your statement that the smaller machine holds more than a larger one is what we call here snake oil.

Anybody here that looks at a 24" machine sees they are smaller.

Plus legally they are since the legal IEC volumes are smaller in a proper sales advert.

A slick salesman at a store might say that to make as sale; an TV advert would get into deep trouble with outlandish statements that the little machines hold more than larger ones. Lawyers eat companies for a living here; the live for infractions.

The Federal Trade Commission gets involved with snake oil adverts; a major maker of goods can be fined for such hokem. If really bad they can be forced to pay each consumer for the fib; since they were given bad info.

Maybe the UK has no equalvalent of the FTC and Consumer Protections?

 

[supremewhirlpol]

For the amount of money that you spend on a Miele in the US, you might as well purchase a commercial machine, at least you'd have more service support for it. Oh, and yes there are 24" soft-mount commercial machines, I have one. I've tried getting Miele service manuals from the internet, No such luck. If anyone has a link, please let me know.

 

[mrb627]

Little Giants

Back when I was shopping the Miele Little Giant machines for their flexability, we happened to have a Miele Professional dealer here in the Atlanta area.  So I ventured down into the city to get some information.  Well, they didn't have the Little Giant machines on the floor and they didn't have any literature on the set either.  So, I contacted Miele directly.  They pointed me to the dealer showroom in Boca Raton FL.  Some 700 miles away.  I thought, hmmm.  They don't seem to really care about selling these machines do they.  Anyway, I just happened to be heading to South FL for the Xmas Holiday and decided I would take an afternoon and trek over to the shop in Boca.  Well, I got to the dealership and low and behold, they had never even heard of a model referred to as the Little Giant's.  I had to pull them up on the Miele website to prove that they actually existed.  Well, guess what, they directed me to a Miele showroom in New York or Chicago to see them in operation on the sales floor.  Now come on, if you want to stake a claim to the North American market, you need to at least get your machines out there where people can put their hands on them.

 

Come on Miele, get your act together...

 

Malcolm

 

[3beltwesty]

As far as Miele, I have long heard that the higher end machines are good machines. That is why the small units are uses on Yachts and ocean/river boats.

I saw some dead Miele FL washers at a steel scrap yard back in the early 1980's up in Pearl Miss. They were probably out of a hospital or scrap from a shipyards boat refurbishment of a boat.

I have also seen a Meile FL while in Germany in the late 1980's.

I also saw one at a high end store in Los Angeles back in the 1990's

If one looks at yachts to dream about in magazines, or ebay, a Miele washer is sometimes mentioned

Here is a Miele dishwasher for boats:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MIEL...0033389QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear

 

[supremewhirlpol]

Oh wow Malcolm, I bet that was disappointing. I have to give you props for going that far to see a machine that Miele claimed to have, but did not have. Perhaps they'd be more popular in the US if they lowered their prices, expanded their target audience, and applied more marketing.

 

[3beltwesty]

A Miele washer or dishwasher is probably in suppliers who cater and supply commercial boats and luxury yachts.

Thus if one is in Florida, a yacht supplier/fitter/chandler's warehouse is where a 24" Miele FL washer might be; ie not one really for the homeowner.

 

[3beltwesty]

Mieles USA showrooms in Higher Priced areas

This link shows Mieles USA showrooms.

The nearest ones to me are Dallas, Boca Raton and Chicago.. Dallas is about 800 Km away, Boca 1000Km away, Chicago 1300Km away.

I wonder if they have all 5 washers at each showroom, or does one get there and just look at the brochures?

I wonder if these cities have a repair chap? ie Dallas would be a 1600Km round trip to me!

http://www.mieleusa.com/usa/design-centers/design-centers.asp?ID=5&nav=600&snav=600&tnav=605&oT=71

 

[hoover1100]

I saw some dead Miele FL washers at a steel scrap yard back

That's interesting, considering they weren't introduced onto the North American market at all until 1988...

My statement that they hold more than most American sized machines comes from the fact you can cram them completely full and still get perfectly washed, perfectly rinsed, uncreased and undamaged clothes from them, without damage to the machine. It is apparent that most U.S. washers can't handle being more than perhaps two thirds full at most, so yes, I do believe they hold almost as much, if not as much, as most of these oversized machines.

Matt

 

[dj-gabriele]

I'm ashamed to read this thread!

It's like spitting venom on yourselves!

I never liked Miele appliances and I'm never going to buy one but then again and as soon as I gave my opinion I stepped out of the "arena".
But this is over the limit of decency!

You American never stopped for a second insulting Europeans!

And many of the European guys on the other hand never really tried to understand the reasons behind the "no Miele please" that were tried to be explained.

Probably, if I were in the same situation, of spending 4-5 times more money that what I would have to do for a "standard, known" machine for a smaller, more costly, unknown one. I'd be sure to think twice.

But then again I've seen and used a few Miele machines and as much they can wash and rinse well (the latter, actually, not really well in my opinion...) and top loading American style machines (only a few times hopefully) that can't wash even light stains and really stress clothes but rinse with plenty of water (but you have to remember to put the softener at the right time, otherwise you'll waste 60 more litres to add it...).

If I were the average American guy, shopping for a machine I'd sure not recommend a Miele but I'd search around for a decent machine, with a built-in heater and reasonably long wash cycles that can wash a full load (I have the European experience in me!). Not being aware of the terrible reputation of LG I'd sure get one of those or a machine from Frigidaire.

PS: a European machine actually holds more in real term capacity than an American machine as it can be "overstuffed" and still was perfectly well and rinse accordingly. The only difference is that you can't stick in a double/queen/king size duvet. I did a thread especially for this and no American proved me wrong. Domestic American machines can't hold a full load of clothes so actually a standard 24 (60 cm) machine in reality holds more!

BTW: there are a few 10 kg machines in 24" frames, and they can wash at stated capacity as they're actually tested.

 

[paulinroyton]

Miele Washers

This has been an interesting post. My parents have Miele appliances and they have had their washer for years, think its so old it Noah had it in the ark, lol. I know there are only 2 in my paretns household but she washes every day, yet her machine goes on and on and on.

I once had a Bosch Maxx 5 washer. It was the worst washer I have ever had. It broke down after 5 months use, had to wait over 2 weeks before it was repaired, thank god I got legal advice from Which. When my friend bought his house there was appliances left in, one of which was a Miele washer, which he very kindly gave to me. The machine is fab, quiet at washing & spinning, no unbalanced load issues.

I read on here Matt,s parents buying a Miele for £650. That is a very good price to pay and will last them for such a long time and without any breakdowns. Some LG machines are now about the same price as Miele machines.

Paul

 

[hoover1100]

Going by a table posted a while back here

Which stated how much laundry American machines of various sizes can hold, to wash 6kg (13lb) of laundry, an American machine would need a 3.3 cubic foot drum (93.4l). A European Miele can wash 6kg (13lb) of laundry in in a 1.9 cubic foot (55l) drum. You can get standard size (24") European machines with up to 2.8 cubic foot (78l) drums as well, these machines can hold around 8kg (18lbs) of laundry.

So yes, you can fit a considerably larger amount of laundry in a European machine than a U.S. machine with the same size drum. Also, you can buy "dinky, weedy, wussy, tiny, cute" (whatever derogatory names you can think of) European sized machines which will wash the same amount as an American machine with a 4.3 cubic foot drum.

So much for my "snake oil" claims....

Matt

 

[hoover1100]

The table

Sorry it's a bit hard to read, these are the load sizes an American machine is capable of.

Container volume Test load
cu. ft.¡Ý< liter¡Ý< lb kg
0-0.80 0-22.7 3.00 1.36
0.80-0.90 22.7-25.5 3.50 1.59
0.90-1.00 25.5-28.3 3.90 1.77
1.00-1.10 28.3-31.1 4.30 1.95
1.10-1.20 31.1-34.0 4.70 2.13
1.20-1.30 34.0-36.8 5.10 2.31
1.30-1.40 36.8-39.6 5.50 2.49
1.40-1.50 39.6-42.5 5.90 2.68
1.50-1.60 42.5-45.3 6.40 2.90
1.60-1.70 45.3-48.1 6.80 3.08
1.70-1.80 48.1-51.0 7.20 3.27
1.80-1.90 51.0-53.8 7.60 3.45
1.90-2.00 53.8-56.6 8.00 3.63
2.00-2.10 56.6-59.5 8.40 3.81
2.10-2.20 59.5-62.3 8.80 3.99
2.20-2.30 62.3-65.1 9.20 4.17
2.30-2.40 65.1-68.0 9.60 4.35
2.40-2.50 68.0-70.8 10.00 4.54
2.50-2.60 70.8-73.6 10.50 4.76
2.60-2.70 73.6-76.5 10.90 4.94
2.70-2.80 76.5-79.3 11.30 5.13
2.80-2.90 79.3-82.1 11.70 5.31
2.90-3.00 82.1-85.0 12.10 5.49
3.00-3.10 85.0-87.8 12.50 5.67
3.10-3.20 87.8-90.6 12.90 5.85
3.20-3.30 90.6-93.4 13.30 6.03
3.30-3.40 93.4-96.3 13.70 6.21
3.40-3.50 96.3-99.1 14.10 6.40
3.50-3.60 99.1-101.9 14.60 6.62
3.60-3.70 101.9-104.8 15.00 6.80
3.70-3.80 104.8-107.6 15.40 6.99
Notes: (1) All test load weights are bone dry weights.

 

[3beltwesty]

Legally in the USA a 24" frame FL Miele is smaller than

Here is a screen shot of the USA Miele web page, where I have added the legally defined IEC volumes that Miele USA washers are sold by.

In all cases the 24" frame machines have smaller volumes than the 27" frame Mieles. Also added is the internet price in the USA to buy a Miele washer.

Here in the usa one cannot legally say that a machine that is a 2.3 or 2.52 cuft is larger or holds more clothes than one that is 4.0 cuft.

The laws protect the public from snake oil of marketing chaps, or frothy specs used elsewhere that inflate a products size. Thus a level playing field is used, all washers sold in the usa are defined by IEC specs

The IEC legal volumes that washers are legally marked is such a larger number means the washer holds more clothes. The numbers provide a basis to compare different washer models sold in one time frame in the USA. It is not a perfect spec; but clearly a 4.0 model holds vastly more clothes than a 2.52 model.

Todays 24" frame FL washer in the usa has a smaller spin basket than a 27" FL washer. It holds less clothes. It has a legally smaller volume for marketing.

Here legally one cannot state in any USA washer specs or adverts :

"So yes, you can fit a considerably larger amount of laundry in a European machine than a U.S. machine with the same size drum. "

It is the IEC legal specs that matter. *IF* the European machine is sold here legally, it has to use USA rules, so washers sold here can be compared. Thus if a car in Europe is hawked as 300HP and it really is 225HP via USA specs , the usa number has to be used . This is so a buyer is not duped by the frothy European specs defined differently.

The average Joe the Plummer or Jane the SUV here goes into a local store to buy a washer. The average FL washer size here on the show floors is about 4.0 cuft IEC. A 24" frame machine with a 2.52 cuft IEC is thus 2.52/4 = 63 percent in size; and it is not on any local stores floor here since few want such a dinky washer.

Joe the Plumber in the usa can call the smaller 24" machine all sorts of goofy slang words for small; ie smaller, a runt, dinky, a cute toy, a compact, dorm sized, tiny, whussy, boat sized, midget, petite, girlie sized, neat, European sized, European frame size, 24" frame size, trailer sized. Joe uses these same terms for guns, ammo, trucks, houses, saws, drills, hammers, houses, lawn mowers, cameras too. Whether these terms translate well to another culture is open for debate. The same smaller buzzwords are used with saws. A standard circular saw here is 7 1/4" blade. I have had circular saws with 10", 7 1/4", 6 1/2", 6 1/4", 5 1/2" blades. Last weekend a coworker wanted one of us to carry the girlie saw up on the roof for a tight space that required a small saw. We had 2 saws the 7 1/4 and 5 1/2, thus the smaller saw was for that moment called a girlie saw. The giant 10" saw has BIG FOOT on its frame, thus Big Foot might be offended.

Since the average washer here has a 4.0 cuft IEC; Mieles 2.52 cuft FL models sold here are viewed as smaller; ie 63 percent of a normal washer via legally defined specs.

The Average usa Joe/Jane's rational buying a washer process is such about nobody wants to pay 2000 plus bucks for a dinky washer that holds legally only 63 percent of one 4.0 model available locally that costs only 600.

Is is common for non usa folks to spend 2000 + dollars for a washer?

Would non usa folks spend 2000 + bucks buying a washer that is only 63 percent of a normal 24" machine there?

 

[3beltwesty]

What do folks in Europe, OZ, SA etc pay for their Miele was

This I wonder since I cannot fathom the average person who buys a Miele spends 2000 dollars in Europe etc for washer.

 

[GrahamW]

miele

One of the factors to consider is that (at least in Canada) Miele offers a 10 year, manufacturer's warranty (albeit at a fairly hefty price). I know this was a big selling feature for friends who bought a pair last year. If it ever breaks, it will be repaired or replaced PDQ. Every other manufacturer they looked at was offering a 1-3 year parts warranty (it often depends on which part) with only 1 year for labour. Their previous washer was only 2 years old (LG) had a failed electronic control unit and wasn't worth fixing according to the dealer tech (there would have been a 6 week wait on parts).

As for myself, I've bought two used Miele washers, one used dryer, and couldn't be happier*. I paid a total of $200 for the 3 units and I consider them to be 'worth fixing' as opposed to many of the other machines on the market currently. The days of appliances lasting 20 years is rapidly coming to an end, unfortunately.

* Okay, I'll be happier once I finally get the bearing replaced...

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?32606_29

 

[lavamat_jon]

Prices for Miele washers in the UK start at about £600-650 if you get a good deal online... up until a few years ago before the recession and everything going up in price you could easily grab one for £450 - they've gone up slightly in price again recently due to the very nice recent VAT rise.

 

Of course, you also have to bear in mind that the Miele model sold in the US is equivalent to their TOL model sold here, the TOL ones sell for about £1000, however we get much more "basic" versions here too - still the same quality with all the basics you need to wash, just without the fancier control panels.

 

Take care,

 

Jon

 

[Pingmeep]

So because the greenback is low $1620 would be a good start for a top of the line Miele in the US. Of course they have to ship em and have a markup for the dealer etc. I can't wait for the Maytag Maxima's to come out in April. Will be interesting to see the prices and build quality compared to a Miele.

 

[brisnat81]

Hi 3Belt,

 

In Australia they start from $1699 and go all the way up to $3699, we only get the 6.5kg 24" machines here.

 

You need to use one to compare what it holds.  Going from a DD 27" whirlpool to an older generation 5.5kg Miele, I fit more in the Miele every time.  I can pack the Miele full, and I mean pack and still get a clean wash with three rinses in about 60 minutes.  In the DD Whirly, you lightly load or run the risk of getting things chewed up.  In the Australian progams, a cottons 40degC wash, with two rinses takes 40mins by default.

 

I would like a little extra capacity some days, and when the 7.5kg models make it Australia, I would consider replacing my machine.  The 7.5kg machine is still 24" but has an extra 10L of volume over my older model.  That 10L will give me all the capacity I need.  I would never manage to fill a machine that has a 80-100L volume.

 

Regarding costs, when the Duet and Neptune were both available here, the Neptune started at around $2600 and the Duet at $3600, which is probably a good reason why they didnt sell too many.

 

Regards

 

Nathan

 

[this post was last edited: 2/17/2011-14:03]