Why are we more scared of raw egg than reheated rice?

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sudsmaster

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This is a very interesting food safety related article. I had no idea that cooked rice (and pasta) could still harbor viable bacteria spores that could hatch and grow at room temp and cause illness. I'm also wondering why US poultry producers don't follow the Brits' lead and vaccinate all hens for salmonella. From BBC.com:

Why are we more scared of raw egg than reheated rice?

There are foods that people instinctively associate with the risk of poisoning - raw chicken, raw egg, shellfish.

At the time of Edwina Currie's remarks - which were perceived to have dramatically exaggerated the prevalence of the disease in eggs in the UK - there were 12,302 cases of the salmonella PT4 strand most commonly found in poultry.

It dropped by 54% in the three years following the introduction of the British Lion scheme in 1998, which saw hens vaccinated against salmonella, and last year there were just 229 reported cases.

But people are still mistrustful.

Pregnant women, the elderly and young children are warned against eating a runny yolk, and forums on parenting websites contain discussion threads on the perils of raw cake mix.

"The saying was that salmonella and eggs go together like a horse and carriage," says Sarah O'Brien, professor of Infection Epidemiology and Zoonoses at the University of Liverpool. "But that's not the case. Improved testing methods and improved treatment mean foods that used to be unusual causes of outbreaks have become the usual suspects."

It's impossible to precisely tally the number of cases caused by each type of food, but from what is known there are some less-expected culprits.

Watercress, beansprouts and curry leaves are believed to have been behind some of the most high profile outbreaks of food poisoning recently. People have died after eating contaminated celery, peanut butter and cantaloupe melon.
Edwina Currie holding an egg Edwina Currie (seen here in 2004) lost her job over salmonella controversy

One of the more unusual outbreaks of food poisoning happened in 1951 in the French town of Pont-Saint-Esprit. Five people died and many suffered hallucinations after eating rye bread contaminated by ergot, a poisonous fungus. Ergot poisoning is, thankfully, easily avoided.

"Any food can be poisonous if it is not prepared or stored correctly," says Dr Haruna Musa Moda of the Food Research Centre at Manchester Metropolitan University.

"Chicken, eggs and shellfish are classed as high risk, but so are rice, pasta, couscous - starchy foods that have high moisture content. Ready meals and cooked meats are also on the high risk list, but people don't tend to think about them so much."

Many people are completely unaware of the dangers of eating reheated rice or pasta. Our perception of the risks is shaped by high-profile incidents.

Currie's remark that "most of the egg production in this country, sadly, is now affected with salmonella", caused a 60% drop in egg sales and she was forced to resign. The loss of revenue meant four million hens were slaughtered.

But while the industry recovered, the egg's reputation for potential menace was longer lasting.

Salmonella in UK eggs is now very rare, but the official line that raw egg should be avoided will remain. "It is about knowing that the risk exists, even if it is small," says Bob Martin, of the Food Standards Agency.

Despite episodes like the Sainsbury's watercress recall it is hard for people to understand that non-animal products can be a risk. Beansprouts - including aduki, alfalfa, lentils and mung beans - have been associated with a number of health scares including an outbreak of salmonella in the UK in 2010.

"Salad leaves and green leafy vegetables can become contaminated with bugs, like salmonella and E.coli O157, from the soil," adds O'Brien. "Bagged salad, in particular, can have bugs that stick to the cut edge of the leaf - that is where the nutrients are and the bugs can be quite hard to get rid of by washing."

There are around one million cases of food poisoning each year, according to the Food Standards Agency. The majority are caused by the bug Campylobacter - commonly found in uncooked poultry, it is thought to be present in the vast majority of chickens.

But rice is also a common cause. It can contain Bacillus cereus, which is resistant to heat.

"It's one that a lot of people don't know about, but you do have to be very careful with rice," says Martin. "It's not that rice itself is dangerous but after it's been cooked there are spores of bacteria that can germinate."

The advice is to cool it quickly if it is likely to be eaten later. "Take the worst of the heat out but then put it in the fridge, it doesn't need to be room temperature any more - fridges have improved," adds Martin.

He also advises spreading it in shallow dishes to speed up cooling, or more simply, just cook the amount you want to eat. It's a very bad idea to eat rice that's been sitting in a buffet at room temperature after being cooked. Any reheating at home should be thorough but is only safe if the advice above has been followed.

There is also official advice on the preparation on greens and salad. Wash vegetables under water rather than under a tap so germs are not sprayed around the kitchen. Vegetables should also be washed before they are peeled.

"Bear in mind that vegetables come from the soil which is a living thing. In some farms they are grown in soil with animal manure," adds Martin.

"The basic message is that all food should be treated with respect, don't abuse it, don't expect too much from it."

 
Why US poultry producers don't......? They won't even pay for mandatory processing standards unless nailed to the wall. Think they'd pay for vaccines? US is a nation of laws, comma, skirting thereof.

That's why we're drowning in regulation. First, it expands bureaucracy and if bureaucracy does ANYTHING, it expands. Second, for every regulation there are several/countless circumventions. Circumvention of regulation is an industry unto itself.

Trust me. I live in Federal housing, where regulations say every installed device must be operational. This floor has 8 'common area' air handlers which under regulations all must work. But only THREE of them do. Yet this institution scores ~95% in HUD inspections. Now I was never very good at math but I don't think three-eights equals 95%.

Third and closer to topic, USDA/FDA has only RECOMMENDATIONAL authority over food processors, who are at liberty to ignore recommendations. Law and order, right? As long as it doesn't interfere with commerce. Y'all know the drill. [eyeroll]
 
Just to think how much raw cookie dough I have eaten while as a kid-Ginger cookie dough containing raw eggs-I am still alive.Becuase of all these scares cook egg items properly.Cookies,too.Suppose the poisoning is due to the dangerous microbes more common now than they used to be?For rice-eat the item right after it has been cooked-no problems.
 
Update: I found another article that states that most large egg producers are now vaccinating their laying hens for salmonella. This was after the 2010 outbreak in Iowa that sickened and killed people. However, chickens raised for meat consumption are still not generally vaccinated in the USA.

Me, I always open the egg carton before purchase. If I see any eggs with crap on them, the carton goes back on the shelf.

Poultry, however, that can be more of a gamble. Long ago I read that frozen poultry was generally safer than fresh, because the carcasses are chilled and frozen almost immediately after slaughter. A fresh bird may have been at refrigeration temps for many days. And in some cases, as a recent news expose showed, shippers have been known to store poultry (and other foods) that should be kept refrigerated for long periods in un-refrigerated storage rooms. This can be especially hazardous in the summer. At least a frozen bird has longer before it reaches a dangerous temperature zone.
 
Afraid you say... Am I?

Certainly not as I use to cook eggs hardboiled. No runny yolks, no slick and quivering substances on my plate.

Sunny side up in a frying pan? Sure enough, as long as it is really "through" and well done (not soggy or liquid, I just don't like that squishy sound).

Other than that I am more than happy to have found a local farm for my milk and egg supplies (where I know the owner and where I can see the animals at less than 3 miles from my place scratching and burping around happily) so I can refrain from those doubtful supermarket offers with their concentration camp killing lines and being transported for thousands of miles, costing tons of useless gasoline.

If I had to live on chainstore crap alone, I would be more than doubtful of what was mentioned, I would fully agree with all what was written.
Unfortunately it is still (and most of the times: only) the price that counts and nothing else.

If chainstore stuff was the only supply for eggs and milk and the like, then I would probably cut it alltogether (Meat has gone down that line already although I am not a vegetarian, I simply cannot see the humungous costs and damages due to meat consumption) - done it, seen it, no use: Bye.

Meat? For festivals only (Christmas, Easter and that was it).
Just as it used to be in the old days (stone age that is) when people were still tough and sturdy and green stuff was more than 80% (now most people are just soggy and limp, feeding on 80% McDumb, BurglarKing and KentuckyF...Chicken).
Have you guys ever tried steamed cauliflour with fried oat shreads and brown butter? ;-)

The fifth of all four tastes is the one to recreate: All chefs in the world unite: Who will have "UMAM" on his menue for the best of it? That yummy spicy fatty, smoky, yet satisfying feeling of having something "substantial" in your mouth? I am more than positive that this will be the ultimate challenge to it all for kitchen chefs worldwide (and the end of meat consumption for the sake of it).
 
Bla bla bla

Can't remember a single incident of food poisoning in my life. We almost exclusively buy our food at Lidl (same as Aldi for those who don't know) because it's cheap - yup, the joys of being college students. Never a problem. As a matter of fact, I'm just at work, eating spaghetti and ground meat that were cooked yesterday. Of course, I had to reheat it: on the radiator! Guess I'll drop dead any second. A little background information: one of my jobs is as a receptionist during the night and during the cold months, when the radiators are on, I put my Tupperware box on them to warm the food.

Of course, I keep our kitchen and dishes clean - two of my cousins had salmonella once and their mother's kitchen is a grease pit. As with anything in life: a little common sense goes a long way.
 
I have eaten raw cookie dough and cake batter (what a treat to lick the beaters and spatula after mixing a cake!) my whole life, and have yet to get sick from it. I have eaten reheated rice all my life (and sometimes just cold!), never been sick from that either. My Mom used to say "you shouldn't eat that, it has raw eggs in it", but has backed off over the years after seeing that nobody (at least in our household) was ever sickened by it. Our eggs go from the store bag directly into the refrigerator, and directly from the refrigerator into whatever is being prepared, always in/on clean dishes, with clean utensils.
 
Rice is Worse than Egg?

Seriously?

 

Some years ago, a man found himself on an Australian Current-Affairs program. This was to do with the radical diet that he was on, so he could be fit and have lots of energy to exercise. And you'll be absolutely shocked to hear this: A majority of his diet came from raw-egg shakes. From what I can recall, he used to have about 6-7 raw-eggs each day - and was fit as a fiddle, healthy as anything. 

 

I might add that I have eaten rice cold in its "bacteria-laden" state, and as you can tell, I am still sitting here thumping away at my computer keyboard. I have eaten rice from "Chinese" restaurants, where people claim they have had rotten food before (I maintain that is false) - and not gotten sick. I have cooked my own rice, re-heated my own rice and eaten that rice so many times during my existence and I am still here.

To be quite honest, people seem to be alarmed at the bacteria and bugs their food *might* contain, but these people are also the ones that turn the blind eye to their kitchen, full of dirty, improperly washed dishes, mishandled food and so forth. 

 

Finally: I have never heard of ANYONE dying from "Rice-Poisoning." Certainly not anyone in Asia, thats for sure. I smell a rat!
 
Yes,remember when athletes used to choke SEVERAL raw eggs in a sitting before a training or exercise session.And oh yes,all of that cake batter and icing that had raw eggs in it and licked the bowels as kids.Again still alive-yes,as Tomturbomatic says back in the days when chickens weren't "cannibals"Chickens are one of those animals-kinda like us-they will eat it if they can get it into their mouth-or beak.Same as with bears,hogs,raccoons,possums.Oh yes,remember those recipes that suggested blending raw eggs-often shells,too(calcium) in your shakes and smoothies.Seen those in some Waring blender cookbooks.They would say--"Your Waring blender pulverizes egg shells so much you can drink them"A fellow here at work has some chickens-and he says they do eat anything-he lets his graze around his yard and farm.When they can't lay eggs anymore-they go into the oven and to the table!
 
Put me down with the "raw egg cookie/cake dough eaters" and the only time I got 'food poisoning' was from a fastfood lunch in 1966 which consisted of frequent bathroom visits for 24 hours. Makes me think some are more subskeptical (sic) than others, often the case.

Given the spectrum of subskeptability, if contamination and mishandling were as rampant as the media purveys there would be a couple hundred people dying every day from salmonella et al. Not saying there aren't because I don't "know". But are there?

As sloppy as the supply chain is, and as stupid as endusers can be, there should be a 'food poisoning' headline no less than every week. This suggests the contamination has to get pretty gnarly (Milwaukee water supply) before it rises to something you can google.
 
Food poisoning

Thanks for the memories, Sudsmaster... I remember the 'Eggwina Currie' debacle well!!

My own experience has seen four unpleasant food poisoning episodes, none of them 'egg-related', but one of which was 'rice-related'. A previous girlfriend of mine had boiled rice from a local Chinese takeaway while I (and two other friends) had fried rice. Other than that, we had eaten the same all day. She had 20 hours of 'projectile' vomiting, while the rest of us were fine. Presumably the extra heat of frying the 'boiled' (actually steamed in bulk and then kept warm) rice killed the 'bugs'.

If anyone is likely to get egg-related food poisoning, it is me. I usually buy 'short-dated' foods (including eggs, prepared sandwiches, prepared salads, etc.) because they are cheaper, and that's the only way that I can afford to eat a varied diet. I do not refrigerate eggs at all, I keep them in an unheated area of the house (though that can be quite warm in the Summer), and usually finish them within two months (after) their 'best before' date. No problems (so far). Chilled eggs never cook satisfactorily.

One time that I have been very sick was after eating a 'toxic' Pork and Stuffing sandwich. Myself and a friend were very ill for several days. I'm fairly sure it was not the meat at fault, but rather the tub of 'stuffing' which was probably made in bulk on Monday, and then reheated and allowed to cool each lunchtime until the Friday when we made our purchase. Needless to say, we have not visited that establishment since.

I try to keep my immune system in good working order (see post in another thread somewhere).

All best

Dave T
 
I happen to like my eggs easy over with runny yolks. Hard boiled is ok too, but to go on toast or rice I prefer the yolks to be hot but liquid. Yum.

I *used* to think that rice left on the counter (or in the rice cooker, off) overnight was safe. No more of that. I'll refrigerate it quickly rather than risk the runs (and not the runny yolks).

One job I worked recently, a coworker was into serious body building. This guy was all muscle (including his brain, I think). He used to provide egg flats for the shop to put small parts in. Each flat held 30 eggs. He told me he'd go through 48 eggs a day. Yikes! I like eggs, but... there's a limit.
 
Disgust Alert

You've been warned!

A co-worker always hated the consistency and taste of mayo. She went thru the drive-up of a well-known chain (rhymes with K of C), specifically requesting no mayo on her fried boneless chicken sangwidge. On her way back to work she unwrapped the sangwidge and ate about 1/4 of it. Damn - it's got mayo on it. She re-wraps the rest and throws it on the car floor. Within an hour after returning, she becomes violently ill. Supervisor takes her to the ER in co-worker's car. Food poisoning suspected by the MD, the supervisor is requested to obtain what's left of the sangwidge. Sent for a test while co-worker is being treated.

Stop reading right now if you're sensitive of stomach!

It was not mayo on the chicken sangwidge. Turns out, the chicken breast contained a tumor...

You were warned.

At least two decades ago, I saw a news report of something equally nauseating about McD's and Burger King. Just those two. It was so disgusting I haven't eaten of either one since. So long ago, I can't even remember what the issue was, but it was so revolting I still won't patronize either one.
 
Frankly ...

... none of us should be patronizing any chain restaurants, fast-food or otherwise, period.

Why?

Because the vast majority of their food is overly-processed and comes from bulk (cheapest) sources, which in this country means factory farming, antibiotic and hormone-infused meat, and hormone-infused dairy -- just to name a few of the offending ingredients.

As for eggs, interestingly enough a colleague of mine from India marveled over America's obsession with refrigerating eggs. It turns out in India, they keep their eggs unchilled for up to two or three weeks! She makes a very good point: when the hen lays the eggs, they're not refrigerated, and they certainly don't spoil. In fact, American stores didn't start refrigerating eggs until about the 1950s.

As for myself, I don't eat my eggs raw, but I do usually eat 5-6 eggs a day. Yes, with the yolks. Usually either hard-boiled or scrambled, fried in coconut oil.

YUMMMM!
 
I believe the difference is in other countries, which don't refrigerate their eggs, the egg producer is not required (or maybe not allowed) to wash off the protective coating on the egg. In the USA, egg producers are required to thoroughly wash and sanitize the egg, which results in the removal of its protective coating, thus the eggs should be refrigerated, even if a synthetic coating is applied after washing.
 

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