Why do Euro washers have heaters?

[arbilab]

No US washer I know of has a heater but it seems EVERY Euro washer does. Why is that? Surely Euros don't bathe in their washing machines or in cold water so why is it necessary for the washer to heat its own water?

In US, every plumbing outlet except outdoors (for gardening) has both hot and cold. 'Hot' is typically 120F. I see Euro washer temps much higher, 65C/150F or more. Is that necessary for your detergent formulas and hard water? That much heat for laundry seems very wasteful by US standards where cold-water detergents are common. Even considering US energy costs tend to be lower.

Our dishwashers all have heaters but our clothes washers never do. I wash clothes in "warm" which is about body temperature, should be sufficient to melt body soil so that detergent can get at it. I get laundry VERY dirty--yellow--but it always comes out fine. And our water is not 'soft', it's 1 PPT dissolved solids.

 

[mieleforever]

Well, most European washer being front loaders have a heating option, thus cleaning much more efficient than any toploader I have seen. Frontloaders tend to use much much less water so regardless of the fact that they use heaters to increase the water temp, it will still be more energy efficient than a Toploader due to the fact that American Toploaders uses much more water per wash. I had had a toploader Whirlpool at it, but that machine lasted about 2 months and I sold it, those things kept themselves busy by filling with water and spinning which was such a let down, because most of the water was still left in the clothes. Clothes are finished within 3o minutes, the clothes was still dirty and the detergent still cling to the clothes, especially the dark garments. It was such a travesty so I decided to sell it and bought myself a Miele, best choice I ever made, but even if you dont go the Miele route there are a myriad of frontloaders that will do a much better job than toploaders.

So yeah most frontloaders have heaters installed because they wash cleaner and uses much less energey.

regards

 

[ozzie908]

It could have something to do with the majority of machines nowadays are cold fill only! My machine uses so little water that by the time the hot water had even begun to reach the machine the valve would close hence no need for a hot supply as for why this is always been the case I have no clue but it is nice to be able to decide what temperature to use. Its also usefull to be able to thermally disenfect things at 60c to kill bacteria and bugs without using chemicals. I know in my home and in a lot of others we no longer have tanks of hot water I have a Combi Boiler that heats what I draw off and my shower is instant too I save a lot of money not having to heat water I am not using for instance in my kitchen if I turn the hot tap on I have to waste 7 litres of water before it gets hot but my dishwasher only uses 8 litres to do the whole cycle...
Austin[this post was last edited: 6/3/2011-04:26]

 

[brisnat81]

Hi Arbi,

The difference between a TL US Machine and FL Euro machine, is the amount of water.

If you fill a TL machine with 100L of hot water at 50degC, the chances are that by the time it's heated the wash bowl and all the washing machine parts, the water will still be 45-50degC.

If you put 10-15L of 50degC water into a Euro FL machine, by the time you heat up the drum and washer parts, you'd be lucky if the water is tepid.

That is why most euro machines are cold fill and heat the water, because unless you have cheap mains hotwater (IE Solar, or Heatpump) the heatloss in the hot water line makes it more efficient to fill with cold and heat to the required temp.

I have a Euro Miele that is hot and cold fill and I have solar hotwater. If I put a full load of towels in, set the machine to 50degC and have it fill, by the time it bleeds off the cold water and starts filling with the 55degC water it has almost finished filling. The water is then that cool by the time the machine has tumbled a few times, that I can comfortably put my hand in there and not get scalded. Thus the heater kicks in and brings the temp back to 50degC.

If you dont have thermal mass on your side, you need to make up for the heat losses somehow.

 

[foraloysius]

I think there are so many answers to this question. One of them is the tradition of boiling whites. Constructa, the manufacturer that brought the first European frontloader on the market, devellopped machines that could do a real boil wash. Detergents weren't as good as nowadays so to compensate that whites were boiled. Here's a video of a real boil wash machine.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[launderess]

So Many Reasons

Lack of large central hot water heaters, and the rather dear costs for electric make it much more economical for the washing machine to heat water to the proper temperature.

Unlike her American sisters, European and British housewives did not totally abandon the "old ways" of doing laundry when automatic washers took over. Starting with hot water will set stains and soils. Far better to do the wash as it has been done for ages, with a cool or cold water soak, then warm, very warm, hot or boiling wash. The difference is the new frontloaders could take cold water and heat it to hot or boiling thus in most circumstances eliminating the need for a pre-wash/soak first. However that may have been many EU/UK front loaders used a pre-wash as part of their "normal" cycles until rather recently.

Even with semi automatic washing machines were introduced by Miele and Hoover, there was a way to heat water so a "boil wash" was possible. Miele units had a firebox that one could build a fire in to do the job.

In the United States boiling as a routine part of laundry day went out by and large when automatics came in. When wringer washers were norm, many housewives did still stick to a cold water pre-wash or soak, but as automatics took over they just bunged the wash into the machine and set it for hot. Use of chlorine bleach by the gallon meant stains would be removed (or at least lightened) so starting from warm or hot water wasn't a huge issue.

Laundry day in the United States was something many wanted to get over with soon as possible. Adding a pre-wash or soak unless absolutely required made more work and or tied up the washing machine.

 

[DADoES]

 

There <span style="text-decoration: underline;">are</span> numerous U.S. washers with onboard water heaters, but they're for supplemental heat, not primary heating from a cold fill.

 

- "old-style" Neptune frontloaders MAH6500 and MAH7500

 

- Neptune TL FAV9800 (although they're rare)

 

- most any HE toploader/frontloader with a Sanitary cycle has a heater ... Samsung models, LG models, Whirlpool Duet and Cabrio, Kenmore HEt and Oasis, Maytag Bravos, KitchenAid Ensemble, etc.

 

[amyswasher]

Would have loved to have a washer with built in electric hea

When I was a kid, I lived in Spain. We had to take our butono bottle (sorry if I spelled it wrong) to the filling place for refill. We had a Kenmore portable washer and took a lot of hot water. It would have been great to have a front loader washer with heaters like all our neighbors. All the sinks had hot water faucets, but it sucked when taking a bath and the butane tank ran out, and can't get it refilled until the place opened in the morning. Grown up, Natural Gas that comes in piped from the street is a luxury to me(seriously).

 

[tomturbomatic]

Speaking from watching (AKA being underfoot) while two grandmothers and several aunts did laundry in wringer washers, any soaking in cool water was done in the set tub or a sink before the wash was started and the wringer washer was filled with the hottest water available, boiling, in the case of my father's mother, where the boiler sat over three burners on a kerosene stove next to the washer. She did not have a water heater as we know them. I was told that when automatics came along, British and continental homes usually did not have the large central hot water supplies that American homes were beginning to consider a standard part of household equipment so hot water for large needs was heated separately for each task, much as my grandmother did for laundry. Actually, when the Bendix Automatic Home Laundry came on the market, there was some question as to whether many homes would have sufficient hot water for the machine's demands with the radical idea of filling up with fresh water for each stage of the wash and three rinse cycle. Before my mother's parents moved into a house in Milwaukee, they heated water for everything on the cook stove in the kitchen which also had a reservoir on the side where water was heated, but it did not hold enough for laundry for a family with 9 children. Panthera has wonderfully detailed postings on how the coal-fired water heater worked in German bathrooms along with little tumbler washers without suspension systems that lived in the bathrooms and would jump and dance all over the place when they spun.

 

[donprohel]

Just wonder...

Why don't US washers have heaters?

 

[pierreandreply4]

because i think that for the us and canada for so many years during the end of the 70 to 2000 most us or canadian household had toploading washers because for most the sale of front load washers in the us and canada started around 2004 when whirlpool introduce the generation 1 duet front load washer and thats the pretty basic model without the heater the heater model was introduce the following year in 2005 with the ht duet model the pic i am incuding is the set i have that will be repalce when they break by a toploading washer with agitator are the generation 1 duet fl washer with matching dryer

 

[arbilab]

Thanks to all respondents. Explains much of it. Also shows I haven't kept up with the features in US washers, that some DO have (aux) heaters. I should have said I have used a FL last 13yr as well as growing up with one. I have some evidence that TLs scrub better but they rinse and spin worse and use at least twice the water.

In US, washers often sit aside the water tank so the delay getting hot water is low. My tank is above the dryer. Instant/demand/tankless water heaters are beginning to show up but not yet widely adopted. Also, natural gas is available in many homes so a tank heater is not anywhere near as expensive to run as a mains heater. Our mains rate is around 12c US but fees and services raises it closer to 15c. Well under 20c UK.

In grandma's day our detergents weren't very good either so she may have had to cold soak/hot wash. By the time I was watching her and the Easy Spindrier she just used one hot wash from the tank.

 

[spankomatic]

Here is a photo of my Maytag Neptune which has a built in heater.

 

[launderess]

120F As "Hot" Water

Is rather a recent invention!

Until safety and energy concerns caused household water heaters to be mainly set at 120F, hot was 140F and even 180F (settings available on many vintage water heaters such as Rudd), to make sure a housewife had enough hot water for laundry, dishwashing (both hand and later early dishwashers), and so forth.

If one examines instructions printed on American top loaders inside lids and or owner's manuals, "hot" water is given as at least 130F, with 120F being "very warm". Warm was "110F" not the 100F to 105F we have now.

 

[ronhic]

Well until about 15 years ago, many front load machines in the UK were both hot and cold connect as well as having a heater in them. This, in conjunction with high water levels, allowed relatively quick wash cycles.

 

Many homes in the UK do have storage tanks connected to the central heating boiler, but the run to the kitchen is often long and water, as explained above, is often tepid by the time it reaches the machine if pipes are not primed first. Additionally, the thermal mass of 15 or so litres is not sufficient to keep 'hot' compared to the much greater mass in a top load machine.

 

Now, we also need to take into consideration that detergents have come a long way since the 1960's too. Many have enzyme cocktails in them that require different temperature 'bands' to work properly...though many are no formulated to work well in cool/cold water, most detergents will work best at 40c-60c....by starting with a cold intake, you effectively get a short component of the wash cycle in cold water - which is good for stains that hot will set. The heater then takes the water, often in stages, to the desired temperature.

 

Another factor that Europe, Asia and Australia have in their (our) favour is 220-250 volt standard domestic supply. It's in every room in every power point. It is much faster to heat water with 220-250v than it is with 110v.

 

 

[arbilab]

US has 240V for large appliances. Stove, dryer, mains heater, central cooling. 120V plugins are limited to 1.5kW, you can imagine how long it would take to heat water like that. Although my dryer is 120V 1.5kW. 1984 Lady Kenmore with wheels. Or hair dryer with a drum. I'm never in that big a rush for laundry and even still my 'average' load only takes 40min after 800r spin.

And yes, standard water temp was more like 140F and dishwashers almost require that unless you prerinse pretty well AND run the faucet at every fill so ALL the water is hot. Until the 'safety' folks said 120F was preferable. Have to admit, 120F is safer, can't really injure you. Also cheaper to keep a tank at 120F than 140F. Mine is set to 115F. But I'm on a mains heater and they are very expensive even with 'cheap' electric.

Again thanks for the contributions and if you have more please feel free.

 

[ronhic]

We have a newer, on demand hot water system that I can dial the temperature up to a maximum of 55c/ 140f in the kitchen...and 50c/130f in the bathroom...

 

However, my parents have an older storage unit that will do 70c/160f...now that is rather warm...for tap water....

 

On the other hand, my grandmother had a wood stove in her kitchen that had a 'back boiler' for the hot water service...I've had that literally boiling when I was 10yrs old....

 

[mielabor]

Hot water safety

Here 120 F is considered unsafe for a hot water system. The temperature should be at least 140 F (60 C) to prevent Legionella growth.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Very good point, Theo!

In my growing up years, the water heater was always set to the "very hot" position which in those days gave 160F water. As not spectacularly smart kids, we were told that hot water could scald you so be very careful. Can you believe it, we had no accidents attributed to hot water, nor did I hear of any in my school and news like that travels fast. Washing machine and dishwasher instruction books said "HOT' should be between 140F and 160F for best results. Our washer was very near the water heater. One parent or the other ran the bath water or turned on the shower and adjusted the water temperature for us until we were old enough to do it for ourselves safely. We were in a motel the first time I shut off the shower water by myself. I was the last one to shower and when I was through, my parents were already dressed and did not want to stick an arm in to reach the valves so I was told to shut off the hot first and then the cold. That was almost a right of passage. I was 10 or younger.

My water heater is a fan-forced vent gas type so I can put it on a timer. It operates from 4PM to 8PM. It heats water to about 145F and on workdays that is when I am likely to do a load of laundry or run the dishsmasher. By 4PM, the water has usually cooled to 120F with cooling from my morning getting off to work routine and standby loss and I guess, after 20 hours and some draw down that's not bad. I did buy a heavy insulation blanket for the tank. I had to buy it online because the ones in the stores were only one inch thick and I think mine is double that. One thing I really like about the tank is that is uses a thermister system to regulate the water temperature. Almost as soon as any hot water is used, especially in the winter, the burner cycles on.

I remember magazine ads for gas water heaters that had the thermostat mounted at eye level as a sliding lever so that it was easily set to 180F for "washday" so there was a time when Americans were washing in temperatures that approached the high temperatures of machines with 220/240 volt heaters and with the amount of water they used, it was plenty to warm up the tub and hold a high temperature during the wash. There were other gas water heaters that contained a tempering valve so that there was an outlet connection point for water for the laundry and, possibly, the kitchen at the maximum temperature and another outlet connection point for lower temperature water for the rest of the household faucets.