I'm in the process of replacing the family washer/dryer, and have been discussing with family members as to what brand to get. I was saying that we should get something that will last (i.e., Miele, Speed Queen), preferably >10 years with little or no problems. Then my sister said why get a washer that lasts so long, when the technology will get better every year! She suggested to get something cheap (Maytag, Whirlpool, LG), replace it every 5 years, and take advantage of newer technology and better energy conservation. I think my philosophy makes sense, but my sister did make a very good point: What are the advantages of a well-made washer, other than having a problem-free experience? Do the nice washers clean clothing better? Do they worth the hefty price tags? Any feedback is greatly appreciated, thank you!
Why purchase a washer that lasts?
- Thread starter bobo
- Start date
Yeah, every five years you'll get a machine that uses even less water, and your clothes will come out even less clean and/or more soapy.
Excellent plan, sis. Don't quit your day job. Better yet, apply for a marketing position with General Electric.
Excellent plan, sis. Don't quit your day job. Better yet, apply for a marketing position with General Electric.
arbilab
Well-known member
The way things are going, "technology" gets WORSE every year. Cheaper materials and design, insufficient water, often won't make it past warranty and won't rinse for squat while it lasts. Takes much research to find one that works at all. Really want to go through that every 2-5 years?
It might be worth giving a longer term thought to the planet. People never seem to factor in the environmental cost of actually manufacturing the machine. It must surely be wasteful of resources to be scrapping nearly new machines as any savings in operational energy consumption will be consumed in making the next under-engineered replacement.
I stick with buying used "swap" shop machines-you get a vintage machine for your collection-and to use.Its the best "recycling" yet-when some folks "replace vintage appliances-the old one still has years of life left in it.My machines are many years old-and still going-better than the "new" one that uses teaspoons of water-and breaks after 5yrs-or its "cool" electronic control panel gets blown by lightening or too much moisture.
I will say its shocking to see so many recent model FL machines, and hi eff. T/L machines already at the shops that provide easy payments for folks with very strained resources. Its kind of a double rip off payments and a "new" junker to start out with. Sad. alr
the swap shop I use doesn't want to deal with newer FL machines-when he has tried they were already a few or several years old-and when he tried them-they won't work-or worse--die a short time later after delivory to the "new" user-so he has to refund the money or provide another machine.For FL machines the shop just scraps them if they don't work-he doesn't like repairing FL machines-only TL.and I guess the supply of TL machines to the swap shop will become less in the future.so you cherish what TL ones you can get.
launderess
Well-known member
You Can See Your Appliance Dealer Every Five Years Or Ten
Take your choice.
H-Axis washing machines have always cost more to design and produce then top loaders. Much of this has to do with the simple physics of keeping water in a horizontal tub from leaking out, and a machine that can withstand the physical forces generated by spinning "X" number of pounds of wash at high speeds.
To bring down the price of front loaders to become more in line to American's pockets the machines have been designed far less robust and thus aren't going to give a very long life. It isn't until you start going to middle or top tier offerings from Bosch, Asko or Miele that quality approaches that of old, and sometimes not even then.
OTOH you cannot get commercial or quai-professional front loader for what domestic appliances cost. Why? Because those machines are desgined to give service to a demanding market that wouldn't put up with units that frequently break down or fail to give long service.
One was brought up to not purchase quanity but quality. Get the best one can afford as it will pay for itself over the long haul. If you get a cheap washer it will break down (not when, but "will") when you least expect (usually a weekend and or holiday), or can least afford the repair bill or to purchase a new unit. In the meanwhile you'll be stuck without a machine and cursing the day ever purchased that thing.
Take your choice.
H-Axis washing machines have always cost more to design and produce then top loaders. Much of this has to do with the simple physics of keeping water in a horizontal tub from leaking out, and a machine that can withstand the physical forces generated by spinning "X" number of pounds of wash at high speeds.
To bring down the price of front loaders to become more in line to American's pockets the machines have been designed far less robust and thus aren't going to give a very long life. It isn't until you start going to middle or top tier offerings from Bosch, Asko or Miele that quality approaches that of old, and sometimes not even then.
OTOH you cannot get commercial or quai-professional front loader for what domestic appliances cost. Why? Because those machines are desgined to give service to a demanding market that wouldn't put up with units that frequently break down or fail to give long service.
One was brought up to not purchase quanity but quality. Get the best one can afford as it will pay for itself over the long haul. If you get a cheap washer it will break down (not when, but "will") when you least expect (usually a weekend and or holiday), or can least afford the repair bill or to purchase a new unit. In the meanwhile you'll be stuck without a machine and cursing the day ever purchased that thing.
Yes,commercial type FL machines are more expensive and of course built better than "consumer"-"residentual" models.Its like another example-Low cost "contractor" table saws that you buy from Sears ,lowes,or Home Depot.Now a Commercial-industrial Rockwell dealer would have a Delta "Unisaw"-it is built with heavier components,better quality and higher Hp motor,and a heavier machined top table.the arms for mounting the rip fence are stronger-as well as the miter-crosscut guage.The Unisaw-like the heavier duty washer-was built for heavy-commercial industrial use.And many home shops have these.They start at like $2000 like the washer.The motor size in these machines starts at 3Hp-so 220V is required.the low price contractor-hobby grade machines have 1.5hp motors that run on 120V.another example would be riding lawn mowers-You can buy "residentual" John Deere,Troy Built and others for under $2000.Now to step up to a good,commercial industrial grade mower-that going to be $5000 on up-depending on features,construction,deck size and engine.Yes,some residentual owners buy these mowers,and NEVER use them for commercial use-just their lawn-and a large one at that.Same sort of thing for the commercial washer-if someone at home likes it and really wants it-has lots of wash to do-than its a good route to take.Yes,I do like fine machinery-but you can only afford so much.So--guess you try to use the commercial coin operated large washer at the laundry place-or if you have your lawn done by a service--you can ask,beg,offer a beer or whatever so YOU can get a spin on his $15,000 Dixie Chopper mower!Guess you can have him drink your beer while you ride his mower!and mow your yard!And if you are the avid home woodworker-you save up for YOUR own Delta Unisaw so you don't admire the one at your favorite cabinet shop that does your planing.
I have yet to keep a washer & dryer for their full useable lifespan, so I understand where you're coming from. And while there is a substantial amount of naysaying about new washers, each one I've purchased has performed better than the one it replaced.
My TOL 2010 Frigidaire uses very little water (around 15 gallons per cycle), and seeing none whatsoever in the drum was unsettling at first; but you can't argue with results. Even crazy-soiled loads come clean when the proper cycle and cleaning products are used. The 1300 rpm spin ensures less dryer-time is needed.
The washer cost around $950. We'll see how it holds up during the four-to-seven years it will probably be in the laundry room.
My TOL 2010 Frigidaire uses very little water (around 15 gallons per cycle), and seeing none whatsoever in the drum was unsettling at first; but you can't argue with results. Even crazy-soiled loads come clean when the proper cycle and cleaning products are used. The 1300 rpm spin ensures less dryer-time is needed.
The washer cost around $950. We'll see how it holds up during the four-to-seven years it will probably be in the laundry room.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
frigilux
I remember a thread you started a while back when you first got that washer. I think you had some nasty filthy gardening ground in dirty white clothes to really put it to the test and the results were pretty amazing.
My Duet is approaching 8 years old and still pumping out clean clothes. There are times I get tired of it and want a new/different washer, but I'm still glad it's working as it has been a really good washer, other than a slight issue the first year. I was sure I wouldn't get five years out of it!
I remember a thread you started a while back when you first got that washer. I think you had some nasty filthy gardening ground in dirty white clothes to really put it to the test and the results were pretty amazing.
My Duet is approaching 8 years old and still pumping out clean clothes. There are times I get tired of it and want a new/different washer, but I'm still glad it's working as it has been a really good washer, other than a slight issue the first year. I was sure I wouldn't get five years out of it!
mrb627
Well-known member
Life Span
I think I am the most guilty of new machine turnover on this site. I rarely keep a set more than 2 years before replacing them with something newer and more exciting. Part of this is due to me not having the household space to keep a warehouse full of machines (and don't think I wouldn't if I could) and part of it is based on the fact that I am not sending the machine to the landfill, but passing it on to someone who might not be able to afford the same machine at the retail price.
Malcolm
I think I am the most guilty of new machine turnover on this site. I rarely keep a set more than 2 years before replacing them with something newer and more exciting. Part of this is due to me not having the household space to keep a warehouse full of machines (and don't think I wouldn't if I could) and part of it is based on the fact that I am not sending the machine to the landfill, but passing it on to someone who might not be able to afford the same machine at the retail price.
Malcolm
Could it be that buying the expensive-commercial-"crossover" quality washer be equated to this-you buy it for your personal or family use-a machine of that quality may last a LIFETIME in this type of use vs a "residentual" one that lasts maybe--8-10 yrs.Its again like the power tools-the industrial commercial one could last the "residentual" "hobbyist" user his LIFETIME-esp for either the washer or tool-he takes CARE of it.Then it MAY be worth it.
Comparing washers with woodworking or other hobby tools is not valid as washing clothes is a necessity, not a hobby. I have a cheap electric mitre saw which would probably have lasted me a lifetime for the amount of wordworking I do. It still works but a part has broken on it since I brought it to Hungary. This is because I now run a woodburning stove and have used the same machine to cut thousands of fencing offcuts etc to length.
It's a matter of thinking about a few different things..
The first thing is that it takes a lot of energy and materials to build a washing machine. So, by buying something that lasts, you are helping to keep the landfills empty and reducing your environmental impact.
Second, you are supporting a manufacturer that makes a quality product, so they can continue making quality products. If everyone buys crap, only the crap gets manufactured. Nobody buys crap and it still gets manufactured, but not on as large of a scale.
Third, you are reducing the amount of inconvenience to yourself. Buy a washer/dryer set that lasts and you won't have to worry about it. You won't wonder if it throws an error code or leaves your clothes wet because it didn't spin. You won't get neurotic over wether or not the thing will quit in the middle of a cycle and leave your clothes dirty. You won't have to worry about getting it fixed. You won't have to pay for repairs (If they're less than the cost of buying a new machine.) and you won't have to pay any shipping/moving/installation charges.
I plan on keeping my set at least 25 years. My washer cost me $1900. A bit expensive, but worth it. If I bought a $500 washer every five years, I would have spent $2500 in washers. I also would have spent another $500 in installation fees and I would have had a lot more inconvenience.
So, from an economical point, it doesn't make any sense to buy cheap stuff because it will end up costing you more in the long run.
The first thing is that it takes a lot of energy and materials to build a washing machine. So, by buying something that lasts, you are helping to keep the landfills empty and reducing your environmental impact.
Second, you are supporting a manufacturer that makes a quality product, so they can continue making quality products. If everyone buys crap, only the crap gets manufactured. Nobody buys crap and it still gets manufactured, but not on as large of a scale.
Third, you are reducing the amount of inconvenience to yourself. Buy a washer/dryer set that lasts and you won't have to worry about it. You won't wonder if it throws an error code or leaves your clothes wet because it didn't spin. You won't get neurotic over wether or not the thing will quit in the middle of a cycle and leave your clothes dirty. You won't have to worry about getting it fixed. You won't have to pay for repairs (If they're less than the cost of buying a new machine.) and you won't have to pay any shipping/moving/installation charges.
I plan on keeping my set at least 25 years. My washer cost me $1900. A bit expensive, but worth it. If I bought a $500 washer every five years, I would have spent $2500 in washers. I also would have spent another $500 in installation fees and I would have had a lot more inconvenience.
So, from an economical point, it doesn't make any sense to buy cheap stuff because it will end up costing you more in the long run.
Woodworking tools or other--remember some folks use those items for a LIVING-thus a necessity,same with a hobbyist that uses the tools alot-he may use them MORE than his washer!-A $1900 washer that last a lifetime is indeed a bargain.It can also be like cheap vacuum cleaners compared to more expensive quality ones-the cheap "dumpster" vac will need to be replaced every few years-vs a better quality one that lasts for 20yrs.And the vacuum cleaner takes care of your home-a more expensive commodity than your clothes.
Cookietaster12
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2012
- Messages
- 39
I personally agree with your sister. In my opinion, if you get a "cheap" set, which they are not cheap, and you take care of it, then you wont have any problems with it. You can get a WP, KM, MT, etc, and use it as instructed, then chances are that you wont have any issues out of it. THe problem comes from people not loading it correctly, or using the wrong detergent, or just washing one piece of clothing and all types of foolishness. The instruction manual is there for a reason, and it explains how to use the set correctly. You can get a good quality set, along with a service plan and have it for YEARS!!!!!
I have a MT 3000 series FL set, and it hasn't given me any problems yet! I keep the preventative maintenance scheduled so that potential problems can be diagnosed early before something goes wrong. The service plan gives you a piece of mind, and if they can't fix it, then they will replace it FREE OF CHARGE. So, I say, get a good quality set from WP, MY, KM, or GE with a service plan and forget about it!
I have a MT 3000 series FL set, and it hasn't given me any problems yet! I keep the preventative maintenance scheduled so that potential problems can be diagnosed early before something goes wrong. The service plan gives you a piece of mind, and if they can't fix it, then they will replace it FREE OF CHARGE. So, I say, get a good quality set from WP, MY, KM, or GE with a service plan and forget about it!
@cookietaster 12:
Can you elaborate on preventative maintenance and service plans?
I've only seen extended warranties sold at the appliance stores.
Do you have someone that actually comes out and checks your machines, like a HVAC tech does with furnaces/AC?
Can you elaborate on preventative maintenance and service plans?
I've only seen extended warranties sold at the appliance stores.
Do you have someone that actually comes out and checks your machines, like a HVAC tech does with furnaces/AC?
Philip0603
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2012
- Messages
- 28
Here's my twopennyworth. I have bought the best I could afford, a matched pair of Miele washer & dryer. I paid just a bit shy of £1,800. The machines are now 12 years old and still work as efficiently as the day they were made. To answer the point about new tec, most machines on the market today still use more water and energy than mine do, and should any great advance come along then Miele can come and re programme the machine to cope with new fabrics, washing detergents etc.
My best advice is go for the best and keep it for a long time, also this is the most environmentally friendly way of using our limited resources. I use the same argument with cars too finding that Mercedes Benz cars do seem to outlast ones from other manufacturers, though Land Rover is coming in a close second.
Just my humble opinion.
My best advice is go for the best and keep it for a long time, also this is the most environmentally friendly way of using our limited resources. I use the same argument with cars too finding that Mercedes Benz cars do seem to outlast ones from other manufacturers, though Land Rover is coming in a close second.
Just my humble opinion.
Thank you very much for everyone's comments! You folks have made it clear to me that buying something that lasts is the more environmentally-responsible solution. I went to my local department store to look at new laundry equipment, and I found the "crap" machines (Frigidaire, GE, Samsung) offer lots of high-tech at very attractive prices. There was a Bosch washer, but I found the size of the drum was a bit small for our needs. Of course it also cost considerably more than their Korean counterparts. Are the fundamentals of the "crap" and "good" machines the same? Like my sister said, technology (especially computer-related) advances almost every year; take a look at iPhones and iPads! Has technology in washers/dryers changed a lot in the past 20 years? Will I still save just as much water and electricity, with a machine purchased now, 20 years down the road?
@bobo:
It's probably reasonable to ask how much technology is really needed to clean clothes given a certain amount of water.
What does it take to clean a good-sized load of laundry using 40 or so gallons of water? That question was answered about 60 years ago.
What does it take to clean a good-sized load of laundry using 15 gallons of water? A more complex and expensive machine than is needed to use 40 gallons.
What does it take to clean a good-sized load of laundry using 5 gallons of water? Who says we should only use 5 gallons of water?
People in Arizona and Nevada probably don't buy as many dehumidifiers as people in Iowa. People in Arizona and Nevada can use swamp coolers in the summer, but those don't work work in Iowa where the dewpoint is 65-70F.
Maybe we should have a variety of laundry machines available that people can select from based upon regional conditions of water availability and cost.
It's probably reasonable to ask how much technology is really needed to clean clothes given a certain amount of water.
What does it take to clean a good-sized load of laundry using 40 or so gallons of water? That question was answered about 60 years ago.
What does it take to clean a good-sized load of laundry using 15 gallons of water? A more complex and expensive machine than is needed to use 40 gallons.
What does it take to clean a good-sized load of laundry using 5 gallons of water? Who says we should only use 5 gallons of water?
People in Arizona and Nevada probably don't buy as many dehumidifiers as people in Iowa. People in Arizona and Nevada can use swamp coolers in the summer, but those don't work work in Iowa where the dewpoint is 65-70F.
Maybe we should have a variety of laundry machines available that people can select from based upon regional conditions of water availability and cost.
Cookietaster12
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2012
- Messages
- 39
@ Lowegian: I have the service plan from SEARS that I purchased along with the FL set. It gives you a 1 yr check up each year you have the service plan, and they come out and do a thorough inspection of both the washer and dryer. They check for error codes, leaks, etc. They check for everything. For the dryer, they vacuum the lint from everywhere once they remove the outer casing. So, you wont have to. They even check the dryer vent to make sure there is no build up in there. Very good investment that can extend the life of any set that you purchase.
All Front load machines work on the same principal. Same with top loaders as well.
The biggest difference between the highest end machines and the lowest end machines are just extra things they added in there to give you more cycles, some gadgets and gizmos. It doesn't necessarily mean you'll get more quality or cleaner clothing.
My big question is, if the ones with lots of electronics are cheap, how much did they actually spend on the washer components themselves as opposed to the electronics?
I prefer to focus on buying a machine where the components of the machine are the expensive part and the electronics are only there because they have to be. Unfortunately, that means focusing on light commercial machines instead of consumer grade stuff, which means there are no bells and whistles.
The sad part is, spending more on a higher end consumer machine doesn't necessarily mean it'll be more reliable. In fact, in a lot of cases, those gizmos break and stop working after a while.. Like the notorious steam generator found in LG machines, which is just a Thermoblock... instead of using a proper heating element in the outer tub. Poor engineering? Absolutely.
The biggest difference between the highest end machines and the lowest end machines are just extra things they added in there to give you more cycles, some gadgets and gizmos. It doesn't necessarily mean you'll get more quality or cleaner clothing.
My big question is, if the ones with lots of electronics are cheap, how much did they actually spend on the washer components themselves as opposed to the electronics?
I prefer to focus on buying a machine where the components of the machine are the expensive part and the electronics are only there because they have to be. Unfortunately, that means focusing on light commercial machines instead of consumer grade stuff, which means there are no bells and whistles.
The sad part is, spending more on a higher end consumer machine doesn't necessarily mean it'll be more reliable. In fact, in a lot of cases, those gizmos break and stop working after a while.. Like the notorious steam generator found in LG machines, which is just a Thermoblock... instead of using a proper heating element in the outer tub. Poor engineering? Absolutely.
I walked by Sears today and saw a pair of Kenmore units at the front lobby. They were Korean-made (Samsung/LG?), and looked cheap and plasticky on the outside. I opened the glass door on the washer, and the hinges felt flimsy (i.e., I thought the door was going to fall off). At that point, I finally understood the true connotation of "crap" machines, what everyone in this forum has been saying all along. I think I'll take my family to Miele and Speed Queen dealers this weekend!
Here is a PDF flyer I like to show people when you compare a cheap front loader to a more expensive one...
- Hinge. Look at the door hinge. This door is going to be opened and closed thousands of times during the lifetime of the machine. The weight of the door has to be supported by that hinge.
- Suspension. You can't see it, but the PDF makes this point very apparent.
- Tub. Stainless steel doesn't hold odors. It doesn't grow mold. The looks of all front loaders are deceiving because they always use stainless steel inner tubs. The outer tub is something you don't see. These plastic tubs are the reason why front loaders get stinky after a while and need Affresh. Teardowns of used front loaders show the inside of the plastic tub as being absolutely filthy. The worst part, they contain ridges inside to strengthen the plastic, but instead trap dirt.
- Trunnion Shaft. A larger trunnion shaft means a larger bearing. Bearing failure is a big part of the problems that front loaders have. Lots of people tend to overload their front loaders. The big problem is, North American front loaders have large tubs to attract consumers, however the machine isn't equipped to be able to handle the weight of the wet clothing that sized drum will hold! (Hence, most consumer grade front loaders lasting between 5-10 years, if that.)
- Steel parts as opposed to plastic parts. Which would you rather have? The only rationale for using plastic parts is to bring down manufacturing and labor costs.
- Baffles - Plastic hollow baffles hold dirt, smutz, mold, etc. European front loaders use metal baffles for a reason, you shouldn't consider anything else.
That's a few of the key differences right there.
http://home.huebsch.com/adv_pdf/aa07-502.pdf
- Hinge. Look at the door hinge. This door is going to be opened and closed thousands of times during the lifetime of the machine. The weight of the door has to be supported by that hinge.
- Suspension. You can't see it, but the PDF makes this point very apparent.
- Tub. Stainless steel doesn't hold odors. It doesn't grow mold. The looks of all front loaders are deceiving because they always use stainless steel inner tubs. The outer tub is something you don't see. These plastic tubs are the reason why front loaders get stinky after a while and need Affresh. Teardowns of used front loaders show the inside of the plastic tub as being absolutely filthy. The worst part, they contain ridges inside to strengthen the plastic, but instead trap dirt.
- Trunnion Shaft. A larger trunnion shaft means a larger bearing. Bearing failure is a big part of the problems that front loaders have. Lots of people tend to overload their front loaders. The big problem is, North American front loaders have large tubs to attract consumers, however the machine isn't equipped to be able to handle the weight of the wet clothing that sized drum will hold! (Hence, most consumer grade front loaders lasting between 5-10 years, if that.)
- Steel parts as opposed to plastic parts. Which would you rather have? The only rationale for using plastic parts is to bring down manufacturing and labor costs.
- Baffles - Plastic hollow baffles hold dirt, smutz, mold, etc. European front loaders use metal baffles for a reason, you shouldn't consider anything else.
That's a few of the key differences right there.
http://home.huebsch.com/adv_pdf/aa07-502.pdf
It All..
Comes down to what you buy and how you use it, the stainless steel and rigid metal base as the best doesnt hold that same concept - V-Zug blows that one out of the water straight away, it uses a polycarbon outer drum with a 2 inch plastic extruded base - and if Carlsberg made washers that would be it as the dearest out there!!, I have also still seen washers with stainless inner & outer drums still full of odour and mold from all the connecting door boots, rubber hoses and non cleaning of the detergent dispenser (granted a user error) low temps and liquids....
I do agree with a seperate rigid base where the struts stand proud and the tub is not totally relying on top mounted cabinet springs..
Paddles need to be large and metal formed within the drum - although the majority of EU machines are plastic - some do break regulary!!
I also want a dispenser that is large, smooth sided with spray jets that dispense and disperse the additives in one go also flushing...
With good electronics and motor control even the cheaper EU machines last, its all down to how you use it and look after the machine!
Comes down to what you buy and how you use it, the stainless steel and rigid metal base as the best doesnt hold that same concept - V-Zug blows that one out of the water straight away, it uses a polycarbon outer drum with a 2 inch plastic extruded base - and if Carlsberg made washers that would be it as the dearest out there!!, I have also still seen washers with stainless inner & outer drums still full of odour and mold from all the connecting door boots, rubber hoses and non cleaning of the detergent dispenser (granted a user error) low temps and liquids....
I do agree with a seperate rigid base where the struts stand proud and the tub is not totally relying on top mounted cabinet springs..
Paddles need to be large and metal formed within the drum - although the majority of EU machines are plastic - some do break regulary!!
I also want a dispenser that is large, smooth sided with spray jets that dispense and disperse the additives in one go also flushing...
With good electronics and motor control even the cheaper EU machines last, its all down to how you use it and look after the machine!
@Cookietaster12:
I didn't realize there was such a service available. Do you mind if I ask what that service costs?
I've always been a do-it-yourselfer to the extent of my abilities, laundry equipment included. But I like to create a tally of all the money I save by doing things myself to help justify blowing money on more questionable stuff!
I didn't realize there was such a service available. Do you mind if I ask what that service costs?
I've always been a do-it-yourselfer to the extent of my abilities, laundry equipment included. But I like to create a tally of all the money I save by doing things myself to help justify blowing money on more questionable stuff!
Its from the Canadian Home Equipment Huebsch website. The market is quite different up here I think. The kind of people that buy Huebsch equipment usually are looking for light commercial grade machines.
I do wish that Alliance would focus on getting their equipment into the big box stores so they could compete with GE, LG, Samsung, Whirlpool and WCI. I had to buy my washer and dryer from a boutique appliance shop which also sells commercial equipment.
I do wish that Alliance would focus on getting their equipment into the big box stores so they could compete with GE, LG, Samsung, Whirlpool and WCI. I had to buy my washer and dryer from a boutique appliance shop which also sells commercial equipment.
I just learned the local mom/pop Whirlpool/LG dealer is now handling Speed Queen, too. I'll have to go check them out.
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