jerrod6
Well-known member
I understand that folks might use a liquid when using a cold water wash, but in other situations why would you use it?
Why use a liquid or Gel detergent?
- Thread starter jerrod6
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Oh All Sorts Of Reasons
When I want something of a more neutral pH
When I want zero residue soda, Zeolites, and other insoluble substances and or their byproducts.
When washing in lukewarm to cold water (ok, you covered that one)
When am laundering things I don't want subjected to the abrasion and wear that comes from washing soda et al (similar to the above).
Items mainly soiled with with lipids instead of clay base soils.
And so on, and so on, etc...
When I want something of a more neutral pH
When I want zero residue soda, Zeolites, and other insoluble substances and or their byproducts.
When washing in lukewarm to cold water (ok, you covered that one)
When am laundering things I don't want subjected to the abrasion and wear that comes from washing soda et al (similar to the above).
Items mainly soiled with with lipids instead of clay base soils.
And so on, and so on, etc...
jerrod6
Well-known member
Why do liquids, even Persil, Miele, Perwol and Tide free and clear create more suds in the main wash and do not give a suds free final rinse as powders? Are we supposed to accept this or should we expect better? Why can't liquids work without creating more foam than a powder?(however even Miele detergent for colors powder seems to create more foam than Miele powder for whites.....huh?)
When liquids came on the scene so did the need for the clean washer cycles. Something seems to be askew with liquids. Why can't this be worked out?
When liquids came on the scene so did the need for the clean washer cycles. Something seems to be askew with liquids. Why can't this be worked out?
dj-gabriele
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I only use liquid detergents for darks as they (usually) don't contain oxygen bleach.
Otherwise all the other stuff goes in with powder detergent as it gives better cleaning results all the time.
I also keep home a "delicates" detergent that doen't contain enzymes and is formulated for wool and silk, even if I always bring that stuff to the dry cleaner, just in case I should need it (in fact the same bottle is on the washer since 2008...)
Otherwise all the other stuff goes in with powder detergent as it gives better cleaning results all the time.
I also keep home a "delicates" detergent that doen't contain enzymes and is formulated for wool and silk, even if I always bring that stuff to the dry cleaner, just in case I should need it (in fact the same bottle is on the washer since 2008...)
Tide & Persil Liquids (and or Gels)
Will give a clear rinse, at least in my Miele where at the third or fourth everything is fine. Will say much depends upon dosage, if too much is used then you may have problems.
Am that well pleased with the new Tide "Free & Gentle) liquid. Indeed used a rain check from local supermarket to nab two more (100oz) bottles at $13. The stuff gives great results in terms of soil and stain removal in warm and cold water, and rinses quite well. Foam issues as with previous versions of Tide liquids seem to have gone.
Will give a clear rinse, at least in my Miele where at the third or fourth everything is fine. Will say much depends upon dosage, if too much is used then you may have problems.
Am that well pleased with the new Tide "Free & Gentle) liquid. Indeed used a rain check from local supermarket to nab two more (100oz) bottles at $13. The stuff gives great results in terms of soil and stain removal in warm and cold water, and rinses quite well. Foam issues as with previous versions of Tide liquids seem to have gone.
It is a continued debate
Most of what I have seen and heard is a matter of preference since we all have different water types and laundry needs. I tried liquids with no luck when it came to rinsing and suds locking the machine.I did however try the new Tide He Free & Gentle that Launderess had mentioned in an earlier thread and it performs much better than any of it's siblings in the Tide family.
I went to a liquid about four years ago because I had started to use a FL machine,thinking new technology, new products, lets try this, then after all hell broke loose with continued suds locking, I went back to powder put I do use the liquid for stain removals and for dark clothes.I continue to use warm water and short wash times since my dark clothing only needs to be freshened and not scrubbed like some people have to do with children and play clothes.I have also tried the Persils gel and I'm not as pleased with this as the Persils powder and believe it or not the Tide HE Free & Gentle liquid rinses better than the Persils gel, at least in my machine.
I have also had a rep tell me from a chemical company who does work on and in the hotel and hospitals kitchen and laundry facilities if you want the bacteria killed in your clothing from under garments and athletic wear you should use warm to hot water, depending on what type of clothing it is, and if you're using a FL your not over using the amount of warm/hot water compared to a TL machine. I have tried cold water on athletic wear, in the end I had to junk it and buy new clothes because the cold water did not kill the bacteria that comes from sweat and it left my clothes smelling like it was burnt, for lack of a better descriptive, it was just a plain "stink" and not pleasant.
So it's up to the user and what they experienced, for me powder for most cleaning but I do use a liquid periodically but carefully on light soiled dark clothes,and for removing stains
Most of what I have seen and heard is a matter of preference since we all have different water types and laundry needs. I tried liquids with no luck when it came to rinsing and suds locking the machine.I did however try the new Tide He Free & Gentle that Launderess had mentioned in an earlier thread and it performs much better than any of it's siblings in the Tide family.
I went to a liquid about four years ago because I had started to use a FL machine,thinking new technology, new products, lets try this, then after all hell broke loose with continued suds locking, I went back to powder put I do use the liquid for stain removals and for dark clothes.I continue to use warm water and short wash times since my dark clothing only needs to be freshened and not scrubbed like some people have to do with children and play clothes.I have also tried the Persils gel and I'm not as pleased with this as the Persils powder and believe it or not the Tide HE Free & Gentle liquid rinses better than the Persils gel, at least in my machine.
I have also had a rep tell me from a chemical company who does work on and in the hotel and hospitals kitchen and laundry facilities if you want the bacteria killed in your clothing from under garments and athletic wear you should use warm to hot water, depending on what type of clothing it is, and if you're using a FL your not over using the amount of warm/hot water compared to a TL machine. I have tried cold water on athletic wear, in the end I had to junk it and buy new clothes because the cold water did not kill the bacteria that comes from sweat and it left my clothes smelling like it was burnt, for lack of a better descriptive, it was just a plain "stink" and not pleasant.
So it's up to the user and what they experienced, for me powder for most cleaning but I do use a liquid periodically but carefully on light soiled dark clothes,and for removing stains
jerrod6
Well-known member
I've tried the new Tide Free and clear and agree that it is less foamy and better rinsing than the previous Tide he liquids, still when I watch the water being pumped out into the sink it just seems to be more foam in it than when using my powders. Also agree that Tide Free and Clear seems to rinse better than Persil Gel.
paulc
Well-known member
Persil Uk.......
.....have just started advertising their Small and Mighty Liquid as providing more washes than their equivalent priced Persil Bio powder. They also say on their website that the liquid is better value than the powder. Could we be seeing the same in the UK that has happened in the US where powders are being overtaken by Liquids?
.....have just started advertising their Small and Mighty Liquid as providing more washes than their equivalent priced Persil Bio powder. They also say on their website that the liquid is better value than the powder. Could we be seeing the same in the UK that has happened in the US where powders are being overtaken by Liquids?
Encrustation
I've mentioned this before in terms of commercial and or professional laundries, and am here again to speak on the matter.
For ages the standard methods of laundering textiles was to rasie the pH of the wash baths by using various alkaline substances. Soda ash, washing soda, water glass, phosphates, borax, and most soaps range in pH from barely basic to almost as caustic as lye (one of if not the most alkaline substance).
The purpose of raising the pH for laundry is the same as many other processes, alkaline situations cause most natural *things* (for lack of a better word), to swell and or open up. Textiles, hair, skin, etc are all affected by the pH of their surroundings.
For laundry use alkaline pH causes textiles made from natural sources such as cotton or linen to swell open, which in turn allows soils and oils to be released from them. Rinsing (water normally is neutral pH, though in some areas it can be slightly acidic), and or the addition of sours to the rinse baths closes the textile fibers down again. However what usually happens unless careful monitoring of soil and water conditions is done during the wash, remaining soap/detergent residue, hard water minerals and their by products can become trapped as the pH change closes things down.
This is why often items washed in detergents with high amounts of alkaline substances (Arm & Hammer washing soda laden detergent comes to mind), feel hard and scratchy. These high pH substances also are hard on textiles and reduce useful life.
It has long been known that keeping the pH neutral or close to it is a more gentle method of laundring textiles. For years "fine wash" detergents made mostly of SLS or other made made surfactants were the choice for this, however when it came to badly soiled laundry these products couldn't shift heavy stains/soils. Then along came enzymes.
Modern liquid detergents with their powerful enzyme and modern surfactant combinations are quite good at shifting even the the most heavy soils and stains, all while being gentle to textiles. Because they also work in near or at neutral pH, textile fibers are not forced wide open to allow the above mentioned process of trapped "gunk" to happen.
I've mentioned this before in terms of commercial and or professional laundries, and am here again to speak on the matter.
For ages the standard methods of laundering textiles was to rasie the pH of the wash baths by using various alkaline substances. Soda ash, washing soda, water glass, phosphates, borax, and most soaps range in pH from barely basic to almost as caustic as lye (one of if not the most alkaline substance).
The purpose of raising the pH for laundry is the same as many other processes, alkaline situations cause most natural *things* (for lack of a better word), to swell and or open up. Textiles, hair, skin, etc are all affected by the pH of their surroundings.
For laundry use alkaline pH causes textiles made from natural sources such as cotton or linen to swell open, which in turn allows soils and oils to be released from them. Rinsing (water normally is neutral pH, though in some areas it can be slightly acidic), and or the addition of sours to the rinse baths closes the textile fibers down again. However what usually happens unless careful monitoring of soil and water conditions is done during the wash, remaining soap/detergent residue, hard water minerals and their by products can become trapped as the pH change closes things down.
This is why often items washed in detergents with high amounts of alkaline substances (Arm & Hammer washing soda laden detergent comes to mind), feel hard and scratchy. These high pH substances also are hard on textiles and reduce useful life.
It has long been known that keeping the pH neutral or close to it is a more gentle method of laundring textiles. For years "fine wash" detergents made mostly of SLS or other made made surfactants were the choice for this, however when it came to badly soiled laundry these products couldn't shift heavy stains/soils. Then along came enzymes.
Modern liquid detergents with their powerful enzyme and modern surfactant combinations are quite good at shifting even the the most heavy soils and stains, all while being gentle to textiles. Because they also work in near or at neutral pH, textile fibers are not forced wide open to allow the above mentioned process of trapped "gunk" to happen.
twinniefan
Well-known member
Liquids
I started using liquids full time a few weeks ago and have been surprised at how well they have performed.
They also have a convenience factor in treating stains before the wash by pouring a little on and rubbing it in whereas with a powder you need to make up a paste in rub it on.
I found with my disabled brother's underwear which has always got poo stains on them, liquid Surf especially seems very good at dissolving them better than powders we were using.
I am a bit choosy however with the liquids we are using, I dislike liquid Cold Power and Dynamo as I find them to be thick and gluggy, where liquid Surf and Omo are a thin almost milky colour, at the moment we are using liquid Duo fresh linen fragrance and it is not too bad either and is a clear thin liquid.
At the moment I think we will be sticking with liquids.
I started using liquids full time a few weeks ago and have been surprised at how well they have performed.
They also have a convenience factor in treating stains before the wash by pouring a little on and rubbing it in whereas with a powder you need to make up a paste in rub it on.
I found with my disabled brother's underwear which has always got poo stains on them, liquid Surf especially seems very good at dissolving them better than powders we were using.
I am a bit choosy however with the liquids we are using, I dislike liquid Cold Power and Dynamo as I find them to be thick and gluggy, where liquid Surf and Omo are a thin almost milky colour, at the moment we are using liquid Duo fresh linen fragrance and it is not too bad either and is a clear thin liquid.
At the moment I think we will be sticking with liquids.
3beltwesty
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Here I have used liquids on and off for a few decades, mostly in the last 7 years. Liquids are really not new, nor is a hula hula or 12 volt car either. There were liquids in the 1960's and even front loaders too, thus I find it rather interesting how old things " get discovered" 1/3 century later. Maybe others are not detail oriented; thus if a new product happens you wait till many others use it. I remember liquid laundry detergents in the 1960's, some folks used it even on small ships and cabins where humidity would cause powders to cake and stick.
***An ancient reason to use a liquid was spot removal; one places it on a spot and lets it sit awhile. This means one did not have to place some powder in a ball jar with water and shake it to make a liquid for spot treatment, ie a pre WW2 method in the wringer washer days.
If you think liquids are new, maybe too is the internet, or cars; or TV ?
***An ancient reason to use a liquid was spot removal; one places it on a spot and lets it sit awhile. This means one did not have to place some powder in a ball jar with water and shake it to make a liquid for spot treatment, ie a pre WW2 method in the wringer washer days.
If you think liquids are new, maybe too is the internet, or cars; or TV ?
3beltwesty
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My grandmother passed away in 1963. She made "liquid soap" for spot removal with a "Fels Naptha" shavings in a ball jar with some water.
There was a time in the USA where there were not a mess of spot removal products; one just used store bought or homemade liquid soap and placed this on a spot.
It one really gets spots and grease; a liquid locally applied can lift a stain
www.felsnaptha.com
There was a time in the USA where there were not a mess of spot removal products; one just used store bought or homemade liquid soap and placed this on a spot.
It one really gets spots and grease; a liquid locally applied can lift a stain
Laundry & Stain Remover Bar |
Fels-Naptha® Laundry & Stain Remover Bar: The ultimate clothing stain remover bar with over a century of proven effectiveness. Say goodbye to tough stains!
www.felsnaptha.com
This is one of those things where many factors play into it.....and its been said many times, over hundreds of posts, but the main thing is what works for you best for type of laundry and stains, washing conditions, and ease of use and storage....
whats bread into my mind is Powders were always more potent than Liquids....
Liquids are great for pre-treating, cold water washing, have a somewhat longer shelf life as they won't cake up, I for one stock up when their on sale....
Tide Liq and powder with bleach is a very potent detergent, I like it alot, but in todays economy, price comes into concern, I buy it and its used for heavy/dirty washes.....otherwise I buy Sears UP powder, very inexpensive, and cleans a variety of fabrics and stains well, they offer a liquid also, just not the same savings.......
many people have issues with sensitivity to dyes an fragrances, so they are limited....
but going back in time, at least for me, WISK was the best known liquid detergent...but you can't change old habits, Mom insisted only on powders, and WISK was just to treat collars, not as a complete detergent only....it was hard for manufacturers to push liquids in the beginning.....took my Mother years to change to using a liquid...
think back, WISK was 1/2 cup per wash, ERA was 1/4 cup per wash, and this was for regular TL's, the main thing people could not get a handle of a small amount of liquid is going to do the same job as a full cup of powder.....these were the true ULTRA's...
many manufacturers used a large measuring cap, just to give the illusion of a equal amount of liquid or powder was being used
now we move on to ULTRA's, less water, more cleaner, saves waste and product packaging, but todays dilema is ULTRA gone too far?, were down to teaspoons to wash a full load, and thats getting hard to believe, whats next?...an eye dropper?
I rather have the little plastic packets or bring back SALVO tablets....
whats bread into my mind is Powders were always more potent than Liquids....
Liquids are great for pre-treating, cold water washing, have a somewhat longer shelf life as they won't cake up, I for one stock up when their on sale....
Tide Liq and powder with bleach is a very potent detergent, I like it alot, but in todays economy, price comes into concern, I buy it and its used for heavy/dirty washes.....otherwise I buy Sears UP powder, very inexpensive, and cleans a variety of fabrics and stains well, they offer a liquid also, just not the same savings.......
many people have issues with sensitivity to dyes an fragrances, so they are limited....
but going back in time, at least for me, WISK was the best known liquid detergent...but you can't change old habits, Mom insisted only on powders, and WISK was just to treat collars, not as a complete detergent only....it was hard for manufacturers to push liquids in the beginning.....took my Mother years to change to using a liquid...
think back, WISK was 1/2 cup per wash, ERA was 1/4 cup per wash, and this was for regular TL's, the main thing people could not get a handle of a small amount of liquid is going to do the same job as a full cup of powder.....these were the true ULTRA's...
many manufacturers used a large measuring cap, just to give the illusion of a equal amount of liquid or powder was being used
now we move on to ULTRA's, less water, more cleaner, saves waste and product packaging, but todays dilema is ULTRA gone too far?, were down to teaspoons to wash a full load, and thats getting hard to believe, whats next?...an eye dropper?
I rather have the little plastic packets or bring back SALVO tablets....
@yogitunes
I hear you,I believe it has gone too far.
Ultra is not everything it's cracked up to be, if you're not careful with dosage you have more trouble with water usage from cleaning up soap and suds residue in the rinsing process, so where was the water saving?
And now powders are going the same route, sooner or later it won't be products for our machines, the new steam machines will have eliminated the use for products, should be interesting to see where it goes from there ?
It's as if producers are putting themselves out of business?
I hear you,I believe it has gone too far.
Ultra is not everything it's cracked up to be, if you're not careful with dosage you have more trouble with water usage from cleaning up soap and suds residue in the rinsing process, so where was the water saving?
And now powders are going the same route, sooner or later it won't be products for our machines, the new steam machines will have eliminated the use for products, should be interesting to see where it goes from there ?
It's as if producers are putting themselves out of business?
dj-gabriele
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@dj-gabriele
Is it stupidity or ignorance ?
When you get something new does it not take time getting use to it?
Do the producers of laundry detergents THINK about the environment and DOSAGE, the answer is NO, why, to sell more, and that's as far as I'm going with this and the FL techno bit, it takes time and trials to get your own usage to a comfortable level and if it wasn't for this form I'd have JUNKED it long ago, later to you in ITALY
Is it stupidity or ignorance ?
When you get something new does it not take time getting use to it?
Do the producers of laundry detergents THINK about the environment and DOSAGE, the answer is NO, why, to sell more, and that's as far as I'm going with this and the FL techno bit, it takes time and trials to get your own usage to a comfortable level and if it wasn't for this form I'd have JUNKED it long ago, later to you in ITALY
ronhic
Well-known member
When you get something new does it not take time getting use
....Well that all depends....(and present company possibly excepted)
- If folks can be bothered to read the owners manual
- if they considered that they may need a specialised detergent or something different to 'what they or their folks have always used'
AND
- retailers bothered to ethically sell
AND LETS NOT LEAVE OUT
...the manufacturers of detergents (in whichever country) can get their formulations correct for, what appears to me to be, very variable water quality.
NOT TO FORGET
...governments trying to appease voters with legislation that effectively forces manufacturing change rather than encourage behavioural change in the voters that then forces manufacturing change - gradually....
I need a lie down.........
....Well that all depends....(and present company possibly excepted)
- If folks can be bothered to read the owners manual
- if they considered that they may need a specialised detergent or something different to 'what they or their folks have always used'
AND
- retailers bothered to ethically sell
AND LETS NOT LEAVE OUT
...the manufacturers of detergents (in whichever country) can get their formulations correct for, what appears to me to be, very variable water quality.
NOT TO FORGET
...governments trying to appease voters with legislation that effectively forces manufacturing change rather than encourage behavioural change in the voters that then forces manufacturing change - gradually....
I need a lie down.........
3beltwesty
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An Associates wife with a FL washer always "tries" to use the giant scoops with ULTRA 2x and 3X powders and liquids.
ie the stance is like it is 1965 and one has a toploader and hard water and 65 gallon washing machine cycles.
he will "confiscate" the old scoops and replace them with dinky ones and then she reverts back to using 5 to 10x the amount!
ie the stance is like it is 1965 and one has a toploader and hard water and 65 gallon washing machine cycles.
he will "confiscate" the old scoops and replace them with dinky ones and then she reverts back to using 5 to 10x the amount!
@ ronhic
And now I have a headache, I need a pill.
Whatever one does, whenever one does, where ever one does, and for that matter whoever one did .................. my nervous system
Ronhic; maybe we should get an act for the road ? LOL
Later to you in AUSTRALIA :0
And now I have a headache, I need a pill.
Whatever one does, whenever one does, where ever one does, and for that matter whoever one did .................. my nervous system
Ronhic; maybe we should get an act for the road ? LOL
Later to you in AUSTRALIA :0
