"You Dirty Rat......."

[toggleswitch]

Baby Jane Hudson and Toggle could cook up a storm in the kit

To your body protein is protein, but Toggle is careful to use only Grade A and USDA approved cuts of meat. *LOL*

It's always preferable to have your guests prefer to come back!

 

[maggie~hamilton]

And number four..................

Yes, we trapped rat number four tonight. That's four in a week's time.

This is =really= making us crazy. I am afraid to go asleep at night now, and have the unsettling sensation that the place is crawling with rats. And I am ==REALLY== afraid of what could happen if one of our dogs corners one.

At this point, it's obvious we need to do something more proactive than just setting traps. We definitely need to ramp up the rat intervention here, so, yes, I'm calling the Health Dept. today.

P.S.: Each one we've caught has been successively larger. I -can- provide photos if anyone's interested. No? I didn't think so, especially since a couple of them are rather gruesome.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

And now there's rat poop

Today for the first time I found what I believe is rat poop. There were two little "objects" on the rug in front of the stove. When I talked to the exterminator today (who is coming tomorrow with more traps), I asked him what rat poop looks like. He said, "like grains of black rice." And that's what these things look like. (Fear not -- no photos forthcoming.)

I called the Health Department today. Not surprisingly, the wheels of progress will turn slowly. They will notify the owner of the building by mail of the situation; he will then in turn need to comply with their letter. If he does not do so in a "timely manner" - e.g., if we don't hear from him with a game plan - we will then call the Health Dept. again to inform them of his noncompliance. At the rate we're going here, by that time we'll be up to our necks in rats.

 

[tomturbomatic]

If they are coming in through the sewer, they might be popping out of the toilet. Do you have a friend who would let you borrow a snake for your basement? I sure wish you success in eliminating these unwelcome creatures. Tom

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Well now THERE's a lovely thought...

... being seated on the porcelain throne in the smallest room in the house catching up on my reading ....... when what to wondering eyes should appear but a leviathan who emerges from the depths and bites me on the bum.

I think I'm gonna have a conniption right about now.

 

[volvoguy87]

Before your conniption...

What would you rather have in your throne? The rats, or the snake. One gets rid of the other, and if the snake is successfull, he won't be hungry.

Now your conniption can turn into a full-blown snit at that thought,
Dave

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Frankly,

I'd just as soon have neither rat NOR snake in my throne. There should be no movement in there whatsoever. Well, except... oh, never mind.

 

[launderess]

Get Busy Living, Or Get Busy Dying

You are trapping more rodents, because more are entering your home as word "spreads" it is a soft touch for food/water/shelter. This will continue no matter how many traps are set or bait is put about. You'll catch the young/inexperienced for the most part, leaving the rest to breed anew.

As your range seems to be the center of activity, you could simply pull it away from the wall and look for evidence of rodent activity/entry way. Behind ranges and under sinks/plumbing are the most common means of rodent entry into an apartment/area. Rodents simply use the pipes/wires as highways and will enlarge the opening where such things come through the wall if they cannot fit. This is where the heavy coarse steel wool and crushed glass come in; pack the holes tight as one can, and perhaps seal with either rodent proof metal plates or concrete (again mix in some crushed glass). With their usual entry way blocked, the rodents will hopefully seek food and such elsewhere. Of course they could also try to exploit any other weakness in your home, that is why it pays to have the place rodent proofed. Once all entryways are sealed you can go about eliminating any rats hiding in your home.

Calling your local board of health is a good start, but usually it is along process before anything substantial is done (if any), and until then you have to live with rats. Usually it takes an infestation so bad and or an attack on a person/child that it makes the media, before a health department will take forceful action against a building/landlord.

Your landlord in turn may just show the health department his paid bills from the current exterminator showing that he is indeed "dealing" with the situation. That may be enough to slow down and or stop a complaint all together. This will leave you back to square one. The suggestion about hiring your own experminator and deducting the costs from your rent is a good one. Contact your local tenant association or a lawyer experienced in housing matters to find out the correct way to go about such an action first.

Personally has been my experience most landlords will do the minimum required. The really good ones OTHO will spring into action and see the thing is done right. When I thought I saw a rodent in an apartment I was living in, the landlord had an experminator there within two hours. After setting traps and inspecting the apartment, he left; only to come back four hours later to check on things. Both landlord and exterminator kept on top of the matter until it was determined the rat either went out the way it came, and or perhaps I was seeing things. Years ago one exterminator told me that most if not all large buildings (excluding single family homes), in Manhattan have rats and or mice at least in the cellars. It is only when things get bad that they start coming up into apartments.

Personally think you are a saint for staying put, I would have left the place long ago and not returned under my own power until an all clear was sounded. Once home, would have stripped down/taken everything apart and scrubbed, scrubbed, scrubbed with hot water and disenfectant.

Best of luck,

L.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

All good suggestions

but just know that my home is not a "soft touch for food and water. Shelter maybe, but in terms of food I have finally stopped leaving dog kibble out for the babies. When I go to bed at night, and when I leave for the day, I cover their dish with a heavy china plate. And I have to tell you they are NOT happy about that and seem very confused. They are used to being able to nibble when they want to but that is going to have to stop. Poor babies.

And we don't have any other food sitting out. I did used to keep fruit in hanging baskets in the kitchen but had to stop doing so. I can't even keep ripening fruit in my house because of these F@#%ING rats.

There's nothing behind the range that could serve as a rat gateway. It sits against a solid wall. It's a gas stove so there is a gas hookup but that's it. I am going to get under the kitchen sink and look more thoroughly under there, as well as behind all the drawers and counter area.

I do suspect the landlord will do as little as possible. That's been the pattern. OTOH, the building is up for sale -- so the fear of an appraiser or potential buyer coming in and finding the place crawling with rats may well prod him to be more hands-on with the problem.

I have been dropping big hints that this may be time to get another kitty-cat and I think maybe Arlee is weakining.......

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Italian Rats? (they seem to love macaroni...)

The exterminator came by today to set more traps. He did not seem very concerned about taking greater measures in here. He said that really the only thing you can do is keep putting out traps and get rid of the rats one by one until they're all gone. I just don't believe that. There has to be more that can be done.

Tonight, armed with steel wool, bits of glass and a huge, butch screwdriver (almost the size of a crowbar), I set out on a hunt for rat entryways.

The first place I checked was behind the kitchen sink and cabinets by pulling out all the drawers and clearing all the cleaning stuff from under the sink.

I didn't find any points of entry, but I did find something worse.

We have two very large, very deep pull-out drawers just to the left of the kitchen sink.

We use one of the drawers for "root cellar" storage -- onions, potatoes, garlic, dry pasta, rice and beans. Then, in the other drawer, we keep wax paper, foil, baggies, saran wrap etc.

Imagine my disgust and horror when I pulled the "root cellar" drawer all the way out and discovered that a 16-ounce bag of dry macaroni shells in the back of that drawer has been serving as "Fancy Feast" for our little friends. The bag had been nibbled and gnawed open and the contents nearly totally consumed. In place of the eaten macaroni was, well, rat byproducts. Lots of it.

Needless to say, I emptied the entire contents of the drawer into the trash and then doused both of the drawers with Clorox, to be followed tomorrow with a vigorous scrubbing with Lysol along with the inner area of the cabinet.

I did not see any rats in the cabinets, alive or dead, so maybe they're all gone. But given that an entire bag of macaroni has been consumed, I tend to doubt it.

I fear my normally sublime dream world tonight will be invaded by giant rats feasting on macaroni and singing "Finiculi Finicula."

Oy vey.

 

[washernut]

I know how miserable it is having one of those in your house let alone more than one. I am glad now that I went the poison route with the little green packets. After the little varmint did his tightrope routine over my head on a water line in the basement that was it. He even chewed two holes through the plaster in the ceiling of my linen closet. Thank God he didn't pick the cove ceiling in the living room! After I finally saw what it was I was questioning everything. Is my house dirty? I clean constantly what am I doing wrong? Is there something here the renters left behind and I'm just not seeing it or smelling it? Eeeewww....it just about drove me crazy. Then I finally figured out that he had gotten in to get out of the cold. The baby gate came out and the dogs lived in one room for a week and the poison packets went flying. I know that's not to everyones taste but I wasn't going to risk having more than one.
Anyway, keep up the good fight and continue to keep us posted!

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Number Five

Well, my hope that all the rats had been caught -- since none had been trapped for two days -- was dashed when we got number five today.

This week I have spent many hours cleaning every square inch of the kitchen:

--- removed everything from the cabinets, throwing out several bags of perfectly good groceries and dry goods but which I do not want to use since it's possible that rats have contaminated these things;

--- vacuumed, scrubbed and disinfected (with Clorox and Lysol) the shelves and drawers, and put in new liner paper;

--- scrubbed and waxed the floor;

--- purchased a dozen heavy-weight plastic bins to store everything like bagged snacks, dry pasta, fruit, etc.

We now have to keep the dog food bowl covered except when we are here, which has greatly confused the dogs because they have been accustomed to being able to eat when they choose; now because of the filthy rats, we have to make our dogs suffer along with us. They go over to their dish expecting to eat and find it has been covered with a heavy plate and they just look SO disappointed and perplexed.

As I have been cleaning, I have inspected every inch of the area inside the cabinets for rat entryways and didn't find any. Nor have I found any rat holes anywhere in the apartment for that matter. And I have looked VERY thoroughly.

So I really don't know where these damned things are coming from or where they are hiding. It is a very unsettling feeling to know that an unknown number of hideous and grotesque creatures are lurking about our apartment somewhere, hidden, unseen, except when their hunger overcomes them and they venture forth to nibble at a trap and meet their maker.

I certainly do hope this nightmare is over soon.

P.S.: Let me say, I appreciate being able to "vent" here. I am sure you-all are tired of hearing about it, but by airing my frustration here it helps me keep a level head when having to talk to the building owner. This really is very helpful. Thank you.

P.P.S.: After doing some Googling, I found several sites that show EXACTLY the type and size of rats we have been catching and have been able to identify them as "Roof Rats."

http://phoenix.about.com/cs/desert/a/roofrat01.htm

 

[goprog]

Don't think this helps, but dealing with somewhat the same
thing with mice, I found at the top underneath the sink I
had an opening between the sink base and the cabinet of
drawers next to it. (The countertop sits on a brace leaving
a gap between adjacent cabinets.) Again, doesn't explain
where your entry is, but if you cover that space with a board
like I did, it might keep them from moving between cabinets -
except for the fact they can probably chew through who knows
what...

 

[sudsmaster]

If you have forced air heating and/or air conditioning, is it possible that they are coming in through the ductwork?

When I bought this place, it had been vacant for about a year, and there was a distinct aroma of mice in the return air duct. Additionally, my cat was extremely interested in that duct, lol. The previous owner had a dog but no cat, you see. She had set some mouse traps, however. After the cat had been here for a while, and after I cleaned out all the ducts and sealed off all possible entry points, the aroma dissipated.

 

[toggleswitch]

~If you have forced air heating and/or air conditioning, is it possible that they are coming in through the ductwork?

Perhaps not rigid (metal) ductowrk.
But animals have been known to slice open flexible (metal and plastic) ductwork to gain entry.

Also there are normally canvas vibration isolators located on each end of the air handler/furnace/A-C which are proably a weak spot as well.

In many areas of this country businesses are heated and cooled via ceiling intake and return vents. Having a return on ornear the flor woeuld improve heating comfort immensely reduces stratification), yet it is not done. Methinks the reasoning is to avoid the beasties from waltzing into a low-mounted return-air vent grille.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

We have central "radiant" gas heating, no forced air/cond or heat. There are four gigantic, ancient, cast-iron gas furnaces in the basement, one for each apartment, then long stovepipe tentacles leading to the heating grates (5 per apt). I had thought about that, wondering if there was some way rats could get inside the furnace and then wander up thru the ducts. So just to satisfy my curiosity, last night I cranked the heat up full blast for about an hour. No odor of roasting rats, and no sound of any scurring away to avoid a hellish death, so I don't think that's where they are coming from.

n.b. those duct pipes used to be covered with asbestos cloth. I had always wondered about the safety of that, especially after the 1994 Earthquake when it felt like a giant had the building between his hands and literally shaking it up and down.

Well, I guess my concerns were addressed when one day, after a recent pre-sale inspection of the building, contractors arrived. They sealed off all the heating vents, then workers wearing hazmat suits that made them look like they were from outer space descended down into the basement and "abated" all the asbestos, then replaced all the stovepipe ductwork with heavy-gauge aluminum piping.

I tell ya, it's never a dull moment around here.

 

[sudsmaster]

avoid the beasties from waltzing

I've seen mice run straight up smooth walls, so I'm not so sure avoiding a floor mounted return works all that well to keep them out of a HVAC system.

In this home, there were large cracks in some of the galvanized heating ducts under the house. One was big enough to put a hand through (albeit it would come out a bit shredded). I used mastic and fiberglass tape to seal those up. Lots and lots of mastic! But the end result was, along with sealing off various ceiling air leaks and adding insulation to an uninsulated attic, the gas consumption dropped to less than half of what it was before, plus the home was far more comfortable.

My sister used to live in an upper flat in SF, in the Richmond, and it had passive air heating through large registers mounted on the walls near the floors. The mice used that system as a freeway, and my sister and the landlord below her struggled for a few years to get rid of them. Not sure if they ever did.

Don't want to be a nag about this, Maggie, but perhaps you could have the heating registers covered over with hardware cloth (1/4" wire mesh) and see if that cuts down on the rodent intrusions. Even though you turned the system up high, it may be that there's a break in the ductwork somewhere, and rats simply used that to escape the heat - and they also use it to enter the ductwork to get in and out of the apartment. I'm a bit suspicious of "new" HVAC work; I've seen some dreadful redo's (like the huge gap in the supposedly newer ductwork under my house). It's possible some of the new aluminum ductwork slipped a joint here or there, as well. Worth investigating, I'd say, especially since you seem to have eliminated all other likely entry points.

Can you see the ductwork in the basement? Are you on the lower or upper floor of the living areas?

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Rat No. 6

met its maker today. This one was the biggest of all. I'll spare you photos of it - take my word that it's about twice as big as the first one we trapped.

I wonder how big they're gonna get.......

When I called the exterminator I ==DEMANDED== that another inspection be made, and that I accompany the inspector THROUGHOUT the apartment and basement.

 

[~sudsshane]

Good Lord...

Please let this thread die already.......YUCK! =)

 

[goprog]

Yup, one of those three looks like a roof rat. You've got
four months to get rid of at least that one. Otherwise, I
don't think Santa will land on your roof.

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, Maggie, you could always be a contestant on Hell's Kitchen. Your signature dish: Rat-a-ptui!

LOL.

Seriously, I'd be hopping mad at that incompetent exterminator and the landlord by this point.

Again, I suggest that if he doesn't get rid of them right away, to hire your own exterminator and deduct the cost from your rent. Keep a record of your rat trappings as a record in case the landlord balks and it winds up in court.

In California there is an tenet in law that residential rental units have what is called a "warrant of habitability". Your apartment, technically, is not habitable because it is rat-infested. If necessary you could probably even move to a hotel and bill the landlord for that expense, but what with your dogs and all I suspect that's a last resort.

 

[JerseyMike]

Just a throught ...

If you have a rat problem, then the other apartments in the building probably have a rat problem. The exerminator needs to visit and set traps in every apartment. If he doesn't do that, then it's going to be next to impossible to get rid of them.

Mike

 

[maggie~hamilton]

~sudshane, sorry this thread bothers you. I would let it die except that dealing with it here is extremely therapeutic for me.

I have suggested to the building owner as well as the other tenants that it's highly unlikely that rats have singled us out, but my warnings have fallen upon deaf ears. The other tenants all say they have not seen any so they are presuming they don't have them. I say it's probably just a matter of time. After killing six of them here in, what, a 2-week period, how could it really be possibly that we are the only ones with these invaders?

As to setting up housekeeping in a hotel, don't think we're not considering it. If this doesn't end soon, that's exactly what we're gonna do, dogs and all.

 

[sudsmaster]

Another thought: Put each rat in a plastic zip lock bag. Freeze. Make an appointment with your landlord and hand him a cooler filled with frozen rats.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Well, I have threatened to start mailing them to him....... that was when he finally got off his ass and called the exterminator.

 

[~sudsshane]

Maggie~

no need to apologize..if you need to vent, we are certainly here for you.

Rats just make my skin crawl! I don't know how you deal with this.

Good Luck with everything.

Shane

 

[maggie~hamilton]

WE HAVE REACHED CRITICAL MASS.

The following email to the owner of my apartment building says it all.

-----------------------------------

This morning (Monday) at around 2:30 a.m. I was awakened out of a sound sleep by a very loud gnawing / chewing sound.

At first, I thought one of the doggies had a bone and was on the floor by my bed with it. But then I realized my one dog was asleep on the bed with me -- I could hear her snoring -- and the other dog was sleeping in Arlee's room I am sure, as that is where she always sleeps.

Heart pounding, I lay there very still in my bed trying, first of all, to figure out what the sound was, and then to pinpoint its location. Gradually as I awakened and fully came to my senses, I realized what the sound was -- obviously it was a rat chewing on something. The sound was coming from the northwest corner of my room -- directly across from my bed. It sounded like the rat was gnawing on wood. It was a very loud and frightening sound.

I got up and turned on the light and of course the sound stopped. I pulled a small upholstered trunk away from the corner of the wall and do you know I saw a freaking RAT go scurrying along the baseboard and then it disappeared under my chest of drawers.

IN MY BEDROOM.

Well that was pretty doggoned brazen if you ask me.

I got the vacuum cleaner and fired it up and began poking the nozzle under the chest of drawers hoping I could suck the thing up in it. No such luck. It went scampering away again --- right past my hand and under my bed.

So, at 3:15 in the morning, I pulled my bed away from the wall, pulled the covers off, dragged the mattress and box spring off, looking for that rat. It was gone. No sign of it. But for all I knew, it had gone up into the box spring somewhere.

While I had the bed out I vacuumed around the corners and molding along the floor. May as well take advantage of the opportunity to do a little housework.

Needless to say, I won't get a whole lot of sleep tonight. I can't sleep in my room now, and I am also afraid to sleep on the couch in the living room as we have trapped three rats just next to it.

WE HAVE REACHED CRITICAL MASS.

I need to hear from the owner of this building TODAY with a plan to immediately purge this apartment of these pests. We simply cannot continue to even stay here under these conditions, much less sleep here.

We are going to have to go stay in a hotel until such time as we can be assured that the rats are gone once and for all. And of course we will expect to be reimbursed for those hotel costs.

This has gone on long enough. I first alerted you of this problem almost two months ago when we first saw and heard rats, and we are still not rid of them.

PLEASE CALL ME TODAY.

 

[rickr]

I killed 3 rats with a shovel at work last month...

The smokers were leaving the rear door to the shop area propped open, so they could get back into the building after 'paving their lungs". Well..... the rear door to the building was propped open more often than not, due to the smokers going in and out. There is a wooded area, and a pond just about 100 feet from the rear of our building.
One day I was out in the shop speaking to my boss, when a rat ran past us with a baby rat in it's mouth. I FREAKED!! My boss never even saw it! I saw the rat run under a pallot, so I ran to get a shovel from the tool rack. A couple of the guys chased the rat out from under the pallot, and I smacked at it with the shovel. Didn't get the large rat, but it dropped the baby rat and I smacked that one. Kill #1. The large rat ran under another pallot, but I could still get to it. I got it with the sharp edge of the shovel a few times, then pulled it out from under the pallot with the shovel. Still alive, but mortally wounded. Kill #2. That afternoon, another employee spotted yet another rat. Rat #3 was not as large as the second rat, but not a "baby" rat either. At any rate, it had to go! It had ran under yet another pallot, and a couple guys were standing around, waiting for it to make a move. I got my trusty shovel again, and when the guys jumped on the pallot, I smacked at the thing as it ran out. Direct kill on rat #3.
At this point, I went to speak with the owner of our company. I said that since they passed the smoking ban in Fort Wayne, the smokers have been propping the rear door open. I pointed out that besides running up our A/C bills, by letting all the hot humid air in, the door was also letting rats and whatever else inside the building. I said that a latch should be installed on the rear door, so that smoking employee's could get back in the building. And also pointed out that we had NEVER had this problem with rats, until a month after the smokers were told they could no longer smoke in front of the building. I reminded the owner what a dangerous health risk rats are, plus the fact that they chew on wires, can be very destructive to buildings ect, and that and the fact could even be shipped to one of our customers with one of our products! I ended, by saying, "you just don't want rats in your building"
A latch was installed on the rear door the next day, and an exterminator was called in the next day.

Sometimes a person gets better results if they try to present what risks the other person has, rather than their own.
For instance: If I had told the owner, that I didn't want rats in our building, just because my office door is off of the shop area, the business owner may not have acted so quickly to get rid of them. However, when I pointed out the facts, that showed the risk to the business, the employees, and to the building itself the problem was taken care of.
You would be shocked to know how fast something like the fact that rats are present in the building spread! Everyone was talking about it! That may be another angle you could use. Do the other tenants know about this?

Hope this works for you Maggie!
Rick the rat killer (as I have been named the last couple weeks)

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Exterminator makes a dramatic find

Well, after a sleepless night last night, an exterminator came out this morning. This was a different guy than the two guys who had been here before.

I told him about the gnawing sound in my bedroom. He looked back into the corner of the room and said, "Yep, there's rat poop back there." He set a trap there and suggested leaving the trunk pulled away from the wall for a while.

Then I told him about how many rats we had caught in about two weeks' time -- seven of them. He said that it was obvious they were getting in and out somehow. He said he'd take a look around outside.

He was not gone for more than a minute before he called me out there to the back. He showed me the electric meter / fuse box on the rear wall of the apartment building -- just on the other side of our kitchen in other words. He said, "Look at the underside of that meter box -- you will see there's an open channel running the length of it that leads right into your kitchen."

I looked. I saw.

"THAT's where the rats are going in and out," he said.

When I asked him why none of the other exterminators had found that he just kinda shrugged and said, "Sometimes the guys are just in a hurry to get to the next call because our workload is so heavy......."

He spent a good hour out there installing heavy-gauge screening to cover the entry holes. He said to watch things for a couple of days and see if that stops them.

Dear God, PLEASE. I can't spend another night like last night.

-------

btw, the exterminator was a very handsome Latino man, late 30s, I'd guess. Tall, dark, handsome, and muscular. No wedding ring (and no ring line on his finger), and jusssst a lit-tle bit flirtatious... He enjoyed me taking photos of him as he put the screens in, quipping with a sly wink, "You think I am handsome enough for GQ?!"

I'll say!

He had showed up in an immaculate, crisply pressed white dress shirt. But after he had been on his back, wallowing around in the flower bed below the meter box, the poor guy was covered with black potting soil. I toyed with the idea of inviting him to come in for a shower to get cleaned up, but thought better of it. I realized he would be back, and if I was misreading his flirtatiousness it could be awkward.

Alas, I'll have to spend the rest of the day sitting in a quiet swoon, playing out that shower scenario in my head, fantasizing about what could have been.......

"Well, sure, I'll take a shower ... but only if you join me..............."

{{{*a giddy tingle running down my spine*}}}

Yeah. I know. How crude and tacky of me. But if you'd have been through what I had been through the night before, you would have fallen for this knight in shining armor too. Heeeeee's my heeeee-roh.

"Ah, sweeeet mystery of life, at last I've found yooooooou..."

 

[maggie~hamilton]