"You Dirty Rat......."

[sudsmaster]

Charles,

I think you're on the right track in calling the Health Department. You should not have to put up with living with vermin in your own home!

Another option, should it come to it, is to hire your own exterminator and then deduct the cost from your monthly rent bill. This is entirely legal in many communities in California, check with your local rent lawas. The key is that you gave your landlord a chance to fix the problem, and he failed, so it's reasonable to expect that you have to take matters into your own hands. There is such a thing as a "warrant of habitability" that matters a lot.

Oh, by the way, please make sure that rats aren't making a nest in any of your vintage vacs! LOL!

 

[toggleswitch]

Baby Jane Hudson and Toggle could cook up a storm in the kit

To your body protein is protein, but Toggle is careful to use only Grade A and USDA approved cuts of meat. *LOL*

It's always preferable to have your guests prefer to come back!

 

[maggie~hamilton]

And number four..................

Yes, we trapped rat number four tonight. That's four in a week's time.

This is =really= making us crazy. I am afraid to go asleep at night now, and have the unsettling sensation that the place is crawling with rats. And I am ==REALLY== afraid of what could happen if one of our dogs corners one.

At this point, it's obvious we need to do something more proactive than just setting traps. We definitely need to ramp up the rat intervention here, so, yes, I'm calling the Health Dept. today.

P.S.: Each one we've caught has been successively larger. I -can- provide photos if anyone's interested. No? I didn't think so, especially since a couple of them are rather gruesome.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

And now there's rat poop

Today for the first time I found what I believe is rat poop. There were two little "objects" on the rug in front of the stove. When I talked to the exterminator today (who is coming tomorrow with more traps), I asked him what rat poop looks like. He said, "like grains of black rice." And that's what these things look like. (Fear not -- no photos forthcoming.)

I called the Health Department today. Not surprisingly, the wheels of progress will turn slowly. They will notify the owner of the building by mail of the situation; he will then in turn need to comply with their letter. If he does not do so in a "timely manner" - e.g., if we don't hear from him with a game plan - we will then call the Health Dept. again to inform them of his noncompliance. At the rate we're going here, by that time we'll be up to our necks in rats.

 

[tomturbomatic]

If they are coming in through the sewer, they might be popping out of the toilet. Do you have a friend who would let you borrow a snake for your basement? I sure wish you success in eliminating these unwelcome creatures. Tom

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Well now THERE's a lovely thought...

... being seated on the porcelain throne in the smallest room in the house catching up on my reading ....... when what to wondering eyes should appear but a leviathan who emerges from the depths and bites me on the bum.

I think I'm gonna have a conniption right about now.

 

[volvoguy87]

Before your conniption...

What would you rather have in your throne? The rats, or the snake. One gets rid of the other, and if the snake is successfull, he won't be hungry.

Now your conniption can turn into a full-blown snit at that thought,
Dave

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Frankly,

I'd just as soon have neither rat NOR snake in my throne. There should be no movement in there whatsoever. Well, except... oh, never mind.

 

[launderess]

Get Busy Living, Or Get Busy Dying

You are trapping more rodents, because more are entering your home as word "spreads" it is a soft touch for food/water/shelter. This will continue no matter how many traps are set or bait is put about. You'll catch the young/inexperienced for the most part, leaving the rest to breed anew.

As your range seems to be the center of activity, you could simply pull it away from the wall and look for evidence of rodent activity/entry way. Behind ranges and under sinks/plumbing are the most common means of rodent entry into an apartment/area. Rodents simply use the pipes/wires as highways and will enlarge the opening where such things come through the wall if they cannot fit. This is where the heavy coarse steel wool and crushed glass come in; pack the holes tight as one can, and perhaps seal with either rodent proof metal plates or concrete (again mix in some crushed glass). With their usual entry way blocked, the rodents will hopefully seek food and such elsewhere. Of course they could also try to exploit any other weakness in your home, that is why it pays to have the place rodent proofed. Once all entryways are sealed you can go about eliminating any rats hiding in your home.

Calling your local board of health is a good start, but usually it is along process before anything substantial is done (if any), and until then you have to live with rats. Usually it takes an infestation so bad and or an attack on a person/child that it makes the media, before a health department will take forceful action against a building/landlord.

Your landlord in turn may just show the health department his paid bills from the current exterminator showing that he is indeed "dealing" with the situation. That may be enough to slow down and or stop a complaint all together. This will leave you back to square one. The suggestion about hiring your own experminator and deducting the costs from your rent is a good one. Contact your local tenant association or a lawyer experienced in housing matters to find out the correct way to go about such an action first.

Personally has been my experience most landlords will do the minimum required. The really good ones OTHO will spring into action and see the thing is done right. When I thought I saw a rodent in an apartment I was living in, the landlord had an experminator there within two hours. After setting traps and inspecting the apartment, he left; only to come back four hours later to check on things. Both landlord and exterminator kept on top of the matter until it was determined the rat either went out the way it came, and or perhaps I was seeing things. Years ago one exterminator told me that most if not all large buildings (excluding single family homes), in Manhattan have rats and or mice at least in the cellars. It is only when things get bad that they start coming up into apartments.

Personally think you are a saint for staying put, I would have left the place long ago and not returned under my own power until an all clear was sounded. Once home, would have stripped down/taken everything apart and scrubbed, scrubbed, scrubbed with hot water and disenfectant.

Best of luck,

L.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

All good suggestions

but just know that my home is not a "soft touch for food and water. Shelter maybe, but in terms of food I have finally stopped leaving dog kibble out for the babies. When I go to bed at night, and when I leave for the day, I cover their dish with a heavy china plate. And I have to tell you they are NOT happy about that and seem very confused. They are used to being able to nibble when they want to but that is going to have to stop. Poor babies.

And we don't have any other food sitting out. I did used to keep fruit in hanging baskets in the kitchen but had to stop doing so. I can't even keep ripening fruit in my house because of these F@#%ING rats.

There's nothing behind the range that could serve as a rat gateway. It sits against a solid wall. It's a gas stove so there is a gas hookup but that's it. I am going to get under the kitchen sink and look more thoroughly under there, as well as behind all the drawers and counter area.

I do suspect the landlord will do as little as possible. That's been the pattern. OTOH, the building is up for sale -- so the fear of an appraiser or potential buyer coming in and finding the place crawling with rats may well prod him to be more hands-on with the problem.

I have been dropping big hints that this may be time to get another kitty-cat and I think maybe Arlee is weakining.......

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Italian Rats? (they seem to love macaroni...)

The exterminator came by today to set more traps. He did not seem very concerned about taking greater measures in here. He said that really the only thing you can do is keep putting out traps and get rid of the rats one by one until they're all gone. I just don't believe that. There has to be more that can be done.

Tonight, armed with steel wool, bits of glass and a huge, butch screwdriver (almost the size of a crowbar), I set out on a hunt for rat entryways.

The first place I checked was behind the kitchen sink and cabinets by pulling out all the drawers and clearing all the cleaning stuff from under the sink.

I didn't find any points of entry, but I did find something worse.

We have two very large, very deep pull-out drawers just to the left of the kitchen sink.

We use one of the drawers for "root cellar" storage -- onions, potatoes, garlic, dry pasta, rice and beans. Then, in the other drawer, we keep wax paper, foil, baggies, saran wrap etc.

Imagine my disgust and horror when I pulled the "root cellar" drawer all the way out and discovered that a 16-ounce bag of dry macaroni shells in the back of that drawer has been serving as "Fancy Feast" for our little friends. The bag had been nibbled and gnawed open and the contents nearly totally consumed. In place of the eaten macaroni was, well, rat byproducts. Lots of it.

Needless to say, I emptied the entire contents of the drawer into the trash and then doused both of the drawers with Clorox, to be followed tomorrow with a vigorous scrubbing with Lysol along with the inner area of the cabinet.

I did not see any rats in the cabinets, alive or dead, so maybe they're all gone. But given that an entire bag of macaroni has been consumed, I tend to doubt it.

I fear my normally sublime dream world tonight will be invaded by giant rats feasting on macaroni and singing "Finiculi Finicula."

Oy vey.

 

[washernut]

I know how miserable it is having one of those in your house let alone more than one. I am glad now that I went the poison route with the little green packets. After the little varmint did his tightrope routine over my head on a water line in the basement that was it. He even chewed two holes through the plaster in the ceiling of my linen closet. Thank God he didn't pick the cove ceiling in the living room! After I finally saw what it was I was questioning everything. Is my house dirty? I clean constantly what am I doing wrong? Is there something here the renters left behind and I'm just not seeing it or smelling it? Eeeewww....it just about drove me crazy. Then I finally figured out that he had gotten in to get out of the cold. The baby gate came out and the dogs lived in one room for a week and the poison packets went flying. I know that's not to everyones taste but I wasn't going to risk having more than one.
Anyway, keep up the good fight and continue to keep us posted!

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Number Five

Well, my hope that all the rats had been caught -- since none had been trapped for two days -- was dashed when we got number five today.

This week I have spent many hours cleaning every square inch of the kitchen:

--- removed everything from the cabinets, throwing out several bags of perfectly good groceries and dry goods but which I do not want to use since it's possible that rats have contaminated these things;

--- vacuumed, scrubbed and disinfected (with Clorox and Lysol) the shelves and drawers, and put in new liner paper;

--- scrubbed and waxed the floor;

--- purchased a dozen heavy-weight plastic bins to store everything like bagged snacks, dry pasta, fruit, etc.

We now have to keep the dog food bowl covered except when we are here, which has greatly confused the dogs because they have been accustomed to being able to eat when they choose; now because of the filthy rats, we have to make our dogs suffer along with us. They go over to their dish expecting to eat and find it has been covered with a heavy plate and they just look SO disappointed and perplexed.

As I have been cleaning, I have inspected every inch of the area inside the cabinets for rat entryways and didn't find any. Nor have I found any rat holes anywhere in the apartment for that matter. And I have looked VERY thoroughly.

So I really don't know where these damned things are coming from or where they are hiding. It is a very unsettling feeling to know that an unknown number of hideous and grotesque creatures are lurking about our apartment somewhere, hidden, unseen, except when their hunger overcomes them and they venture forth to nibble at a trap and meet their maker.

I certainly do hope this nightmare is over soon.

P.S.: Let me say, I appreciate being able to "vent" here. I am sure you-all are tired of hearing about it, but by airing my frustration here it helps me keep a level head when having to talk to the building owner. This really is very helpful. Thank you.

P.P.S.: After doing some Googling, I found several sites that show EXACTLY the type and size of rats we have been catching and have been able to identify them as "Roof Rats."

Loading…

phoenix.about.com

 

[goprog]

Don't think this helps, but dealing with somewhat the same
thing with mice, I found at the top underneath the sink I
had an opening between the sink base and the cabinet of
drawers next to it. (The countertop sits on a brace leaving
a gap between adjacent cabinets.) Again, doesn't explain
where your entry is, but if you cover that space with a board
like I did, it might keep them from moving between cabinets -
except for the fact they can probably chew through who knows
what...

 

[sudsmaster]

If you have forced air heating and/or air conditioning, is it possible that they are coming in through the ductwork?

When I bought this place, it had been vacant for about a year, and there was a distinct aroma of mice in the return air duct. Additionally, my cat was extremely interested in that duct, lol. The previous owner had a dog but no cat, you see. She had set some mouse traps, however. After the cat had been here for a while, and after I cleaned out all the ducts and sealed off all possible entry points, the aroma dissipated.

 

[toggleswitch]

~If you have forced air heating and/or air conditioning, is it possible that they are coming in through the ductwork?

Perhaps not rigid (metal) ductowrk.
But animals have been known to slice open flexible (metal and plastic) ductwork to gain entry.

Also there are normally canvas vibration isolators located on each end of the air handler/furnace/A-C which are proably a weak spot as well.

In many areas of this country businesses are heated and cooled via ceiling intake and return vents. Having a return on ornear the flor woeuld improve heating comfort immensely reduces stratification), yet it is not done. Methinks the reasoning is to avoid the beasties from waltzing into a low-mounted return-air vent grille.

 

[maggie~hamilton]

We have central "radiant" gas heating, no forced air/cond or heat. There are four gigantic, ancient, cast-iron gas furnaces in the basement, one for each apartment, then long stovepipe tentacles leading to the heating grates (5 per apt). I had thought about that, wondering if there was some way rats could get inside the furnace and then wander up thru the ducts. So just to satisfy my curiosity, last night I cranked the heat up full blast for about an hour. No odor of roasting rats, and no sound of any scurring away to avoid a hellish death, so I don't think that's where they are coming from.

n.b. those duct pipes used to be covered with asbestos cloth. I had always wondered about the safety of that, especially after the 1994 Earthquake when it felt like a giant had the building between his hands and literally shaking it up and down.

Well, I guess my concerns were addressed when one day, after a recent pre-sale inspection of the building, contractors arrived. They sealed off all the heating vents, then workers wearing hazmat suits that made them look like they were from outer space descended down into the basement and "abated" all the asbestos, then replaced all the stovepipe ductwork with heavy-gauge aluminum piping.

I tell ya, it's never a dull moment around here.

 

[sudsmaster]

avoid the beasties from waltzing

I've seen mice run straight up smooth walls, so I'm not so sure avoiding a floor mounted return works all that well to keep them out of a HVAC system.

In this home, there were large cracks in some of the galvanized heating ducts under the house. One was big enough to put a hand through (albeit it would come out a bit shredded). I used mastic and fiberglass tape to seal those up. Lots and lots of mastic! But the end result was, along with sealing off various ceiling air leaks and adding insulation to an uninsulated attic, the gas consumption dropped to less than half of what it was before, plus the home was far more comfortable.

My sister used to live in an upper flat in SF, in the Richmond, and it had passive air heating through large registers mounted on the walls near the floors. The mice used that system as a freeway, and my sister and the landlord below her struggled for a few years to get rid of them. Not sure if they ever did.

Don't want to be a nag about this, Maggie, but perhaps you could have the heating registers covered over with hardware cloth (1/4" wire mesh) and see if that cuts down on the rodent intrusions. Even though you turned the system up high, it may be that there's a break in the ductwork somewhere, and rats simply used that to escape the heat - and they also use it to enter the ductwork to get in and out of the apartment. I'm a bit suspicious of "new" HVAC work; I've seen some dreadful redo's (like the huge gap in the supposedly newer ductwork under my house). It's possible some of the new aluminum ductwork slipped a joint here or there, as well. Worth investigating, I'd say, especially since you seem to have eliminated all other likely entry points.

Can you see the ductwork in the basement? Are you on the lower or upper floor of the living areas?

 

[maggie~hamilton]

Rat No. 6

met its maker today. This one was the biggest of all. I'll spare you photos of it - take my word that it's about twice as big as the first one we trapped.

I wonder how big they're gonna get.......

When I called the exterminator I ==DEMANDED== that another inspection be made, and that I accompany the inspector THROUGHOUT the apartment and basement.

 

[~sudsshane]

Good Lord...

Please let this thread die already.......YUCK! =)