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If I select steam on our Samsung front loader, it only begins with cold to help dissolve the detergent for 20 seconds. Only hot after until full. If I use normal without steam, you can hear the hot and cold mix valve alternating. Quick wash can be medium hot with no steam. It doesn't add cold water to the wash. Our water heater is set to about 140f. Steam and the hotest wash temp activates the heater. You can hear it heating the water with a mild simmer. Normal cycle steam is at the end of the wash for stain removal. Heavy duty is hotter water the entire wash. Steam is an option for bedding, whites and delicate also.
 
I used to use the extra hot and steam setting on my LG. It was hot but not super hot as the commercial UniMac machines I use once a week. I was once convinced that a heater makes a big difference but later found that wasn't the case on my end, I couldn't even tell especially if I did cold wash. And that's probably because I don't get my laundry super dirty. Regarding combos, I did thought of getting one for the hunting cabin during renovation. However, I realized that I'd be doing laundry longer versus just getting a stackable set so I can wash and dry at the same time. So I just went ahead and got a SQ SF7 instead.
 
maytag85 said:
Some people can hem and haw all the want on how newer machines have more flexibility etc, but there’s not much flexibility, if any at all. Usually you’ll be locked out of certain options, and when you select ‘hot’, it’s usually warm which is not true hot water.

If I select hot or warm water, expect it to be warm or hot water, not the supposed “hot” or “warm” water today.

Makes me ever more glad I own a TOL Maytag A806 along with a Whirlpool Imperial Mark 18 which allows me to select whatever options I want without locking me out or limiting options available.

I almost ALWAYS select a gentle wash with fast spin on both of my TOL machines with the exception of Knit or Permanent Press items.

When you let they sky be the limit in terms of options and such, you will almost always select the ones that are actually needed and allow for the most economical way of operation, gentle wash with fast spin for example to reduce drying times etc.
Click to expand...
Like me, you like and are entitled to and freedom of choice, not something of a controlling nature.
Hot is HOT.... period.

When I do a load of T shirts that are only sweated up but not filthy, I'll set the dial on Normal, for 5 or 6 minutes, no need to run the full 12 minutes.
Same for jeans.
 
phillymatt53 said:
Like me, you like and are entitled to and freedom of choice, not something of a controlling nature.
Hot is HOT.... period.

When I do a load of T shirts that are only sweated up but not filthy, I'll set the dial on Normal, for 5 or 6 minutes, no need to run the full 12 minutes.
Same for jeans.
Click to expand...
I do the same with one queen sheet, and 4 pillow cases weekly. A 26 minute quick was on hot with one rinse is enough.
 
vacerator said:
I do the same with one queen sheet, and 4 pillow cases weekly. A 26 minute quick was on hot with one rinse is enough.
Click to expand...
My hotwater heater is set at 120-130 degrees, (measured) and near the washer.
It's maybe 20 feet of copper piping between them, with that tubular foam-surround insulation on the hot water pipe.
To me, that's hot enough, with the steam vapors rising from the washer.
 
I am surprised Electrolux have not had a go of introducing combos in the USA. Their 120V 24" US Washing Machine (ELFW4222AW) features a 1400 RPM spin which does not seem so common over there. Plus in Europe they offer a load of 24" hydro-condenser washer dryers with spin speeds of either 1400 or 1600 RPM, plus a 220V 24" Heat Pump combo with a 1600 RPM spin. (Haier have recently introduced a similar machine in Europe too [HWD120-BD16397EUK]).

Since they make 27" washing machines already in the USA, I wonder if Electrolux ever considered making a combo with there 27" cabinet, a 1400 or 1600 spin speed, plus either their hydro-condenser or heat pump drying systems. Arguably the bigger cabinet would be better for a heat-pump compared to their European model, as it would potentially allow for a larger compressor and heat exchanger too.
 
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For years, washing machines had spin speed of around 500 to 600 RPM.
With a roughly 5 minute spin time, the clothes came out damp-dry enough for a dryer to handle.
And life went on, without complaints.
I see no reason to spin garments at jet engine speeds.
It's all Marketing Propoganda.
 
phillymatt53 said:
For years, washing machines had spin speed of around 500 to 600 RPM.
With a roughly 5 minute spin time, the clothes came out damp-dry enough for a dryer to handle.
And life went on, without complaints.
I see no reason to spin garments at jet engine speeds.
It's all Marketing Propoganda.
Click to expand...
RPMs are part of the considerations of drum design and spinning profile are also an influence, the European tests consider water extraction (1400-1600 is the sweet spot) – probably the most scientific measure is the residual moisture in a load after the final spin. The less moisture === the less time needed to dry
 
phillymatt53 said:
For years, washing machines had spin speed of around 500 to 600 RPM.
Click to expand...
The first GE toploader in the late 1940s, and Frigidaire unimatics in the same timeframe into the 1950s, spun at the full motor RPM of 1,140 RPM. The Frigidaires are the source of Robert's board name Unimatic1140.
 
solsburian said:
RPMs are part of the considerations of drum design and spinning profile are also an influence, the European tests consider water extraction (1400-1600 is the sweet spot) – probably the most scientific measure is the residual moisture in a load after the final spin. The less moisture === the less time needed to dry
Click to expand...
I'm well aware that the higher the speed, the more water is extracted from fabrics.
I'm also aware that the tub bearings are put under additional stress, particularly with unbalanced loads - resulting in premature failure.
And with todays less-than-stellar manufacturing, that costs consumers more money.
 
Higher final spin speeds in washing machines just makes sense it not only saves energy. The clothes get rinsed better because more of the soapy dirty water is spun out and your own time is saved because the clothes dry a lot faster.

Higher RPMs do not have any measurable effect on the bearings, we possess the technology to make washing machines spin at even 2000 RPMs without excessive bearing wear the Frigidaire unimatic and the original GE’s that spun at 1140 RPMs had no bearing problems certainly a lot less than whirlpool that spun only 500 RPMs.

I generally think the sweet spot for front load machines is about 1200 RPMs for the large machines we have in the US probably for the smaller European size 24 inch machines 14 or 1600 RPMs is probably good.

John L
 
combo52 said:
Higher final spin speeds in washing machines just makes sense it not only saves energy. The clothes get rinsed better because more of the soapy dirty water is spun out and your own time is saved because the clothes dry a lot faster.

Higher RPMs do not have any measurable effect on the bearings, we possess the technology to make washing machines spin at even 2000 RPMs without excessive bearing wear the Frigidaire unimatic and the original GE’s that spun at 1140 RPMs had no bearing problems certainly a lot less than whirlpool that spun only 500 RPMs.

I generally think the sweet spot for front load machines is about 1200 RPMs for the large machines we have in the US probably for the smaller European size 24 inch machines 14 or 1600 RPMs is probably good.

John L
Click to expand...
I just performed a quick "spin-test" on my Maytag A482 machine.
I attached a small magnet to the top of the agitator, so when it spins it would send a signal to a fixed coil near it, and send a pulse, registering each revolution on my oscilloscope.
Empty tub, final spin speed registered 10.26 in frequency, and that translates to about 615 RPM.

I'm content with those readings, and content with the machine, which has lasted over 40 years without any problems.
I never overload the machine, and I'm not one to need "fast drying", so there you have it.
 
It's usually the rubber seal that keeps the water out of the bearing that fails first. I think anything over 1,600 rpm in a washing machine is a bit overkill, as it adds a lot to the cost for minimal benefit, and also increases creasing.

Here's the residual moisture vs spin speed from the service manual covering my 7kg Zanussi branded Electrolux. For what it's worth, it's a 1,400rpm model, which actually spins at 1350rpm measured by its own electronics, and has 6306zz and 6305zz bearings, the inner one seized after 10 years, due to water ingress and I'm pretty sure they'd both still be in good order if the seal around the shaft was able to last longer. Mine rarely last more than 10 years, I suspect the limescale from my very hard water speeds failure up. I think the longest lived was a 1980's hotpoint, it had a weep hole between the bearings so I knew about a year+ in advance that the seal was leaking and its bearings would be on the way out.

delete.jpg

Some people buy cheap spin dryers which can spin up to about 3,200 RPM to save money on tumble drying, and turn the spin speed down on the washing machine to try to make the bearing last longer.

As I recall the centripetal force depends on the square of the rpm, so rpm makes a more significant difference than drum diameter.
 
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me said:
As I recall the centripetal force depends on the square of the rpm, so rpm makes a more significant difference than drum diameter.
Click to expand...

My testing over the years has shown this statement to be 100% spot on. Drum diameter is a piece of this puzzle but when I was testing a Unimatic at 1140rpm vs. a Rollermatic at 1010rpm with a wider diameter tub in the Rollermatic, the Unimatic still removed more water. Testing was done by calculating the percentage of dry weight left in heavy towels.
 
phillymatt53 said:
For years, washing machines had spin speed of around 500 to 600 RPM.
Click to expand...
Frigidaire also had Rapidry-1000 in the 1960s. There's a Pic-of-the-Day for an ad that offers a choice of a machine with "Goof-Proof" programmed cycle selections or RapidDry-1000.

Calyspo spins at 800 RPM. Neptune TL is max 850 for the lower FAV6800, 1000 for the upper FAV9800. Fisher & Paykel SmartDrive is 1,010 (stated as 1,000 but reads 1,010 via diagostics) since the late 1990s (1997) into the 2010s. The last iteration on the U.S. market was increased slightly to 1,100.
 
phillymatt53 said:
I just performed a quick "spin-test" on my Maytag A482 machine.
I attached a small magnet to the top of the agitator, so when it spins it would send a signal to a fixed coil near it, and send a pulse, registering each revolution on my oscilloscope.
Empty tub, final spin speed registered 10.26 in frequency, and that translates to about 615 RPM.

I'm content with those readings, and content with the machine, which has lasted over 40 years without any problems.
I never overload the machine, and I'm not one to need "fast drying", so there you have it.
Click to expand...
You could have found that number in the spec sheets for the washer, but whatever floats your boat.
 
me said:
It's usually the rubber seal that keeps the water out of the bearing that fails first. I think anything over 1,600 rpm in a washing machine is a bit overkill, as it adds a lot to the cost for minimal benefit, and also increases creasing.

Here's the residual moisture vs spin speed from the service manual covering my 7kg Zanussi branded Electrolux. For what it's worth, it's a 1,400rpm model, which actually spins at 1350rpm measured by its own electronics, and has 6306zz and 6305zz bearings, the inner one seized after 10 years, due to water ingress and I'm pretty sure they'd both still be in good order if the seal around the shaft was able to last longer. Mine rarely last more than 10 years, I suspect the limescale from my very hard water speeds failure up. I think the longest lived was a 1980's hotpoint, it had a weep hole between the bearings so I knew about a year+ in advance that the seal was leaking and its bearings would be on the way out.

View attachment 318279

Some people buy cheap spin dryers which can spin up to about 3,200 RPM to save money on tumble drying, and turn the spin speed down on the washing machine to try to make the bearing last longer.

As I recall the centripetal force depends on the square of the rpm, so rpm makes a more significant difference than drum diameter.
Click to expand...

My 1600 RPM (1551 RPM in reality) Zanussi Washer Dryer (ZWD71663W) will be 10 years old in December and seems to be fine, despite me being a heavy user of the dryer. I live in a soft/medium water area, but still descale it about every 6 months, avoid pods/liquid detergent and never wash below 40 degrees Celsius.

Getting back on topic (sorry), it is good that consumers are starting to get more choice, and more efficient/technology advanced machines, but the flip side of that is their higher price, and the extra maintenance burden (i.e., regular cleaning of filters filters, maintenance washers etc).
 
me said:
It's usually the rubber seal that keeps the water out of the bearing that fails first. I think anything over 1,600 rpm in a washing machine is a bit overkill, as it adds a lot to the cost for minimal benefit, and also increases creasing.

Here's the residual moisture vs spin speed from the service manual covering my 7kg Zanussi branded Electrolux. For what it's worth, it's a 1,400rpm model, which actually spins at 1350rpm measured by its own electronics, and has 6306zz and 6305zz bearings, the inner one seized after 10 years, due to water ingress and I'm pretty sure they'd both still be in good order if the seal around the shaft was able to last longer. Mine rarely last more than 10 years, I suspect the limescale from my very hard water speeds failure up. I think the longest lived was a 1980's hotpoint, it had a weep hole between the bearings so I knew about a year+ in advance that the seal was leaking and its bearings would be on the way out.

View attachment 318279

Some people buy cheap spin dryers which can spin up to about 3,200 RPM to save money on tumble drying, and turn the spin speed down on the washing machine to try to make the bearing last longer.

As I recall the centripetal force depends on the square of the rpm, so rpm makes a more significant difference than drum diameter.
Click to expand...

This is phenomenal stuff. Then you'd have to simply look at the weight of the waterlogged clothes to calculate real-world savings based on RPM vs. poundage or kilogram water extraction vs. tumble drying.

Every pound of water that is extracted from a load via spin instead of resistive heat is very significant. It takes about 400 watt-hours of resistive heat to remove 1lb of water from garments. This chart provides a pretty compelling argument that going from 600 RPM at what probably amounts to 75% humidity down to 53% on 1300 RPM is significant.

There's a reason every laundromat owner at the CLA will tell you to go with high-G, high-RPM front load washers instead of toploads. The bottom line benefits for these modes save a ton of time and money for sure.
 

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