12 Minute Wash - Hype or Reality..!!!

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As for "Our frontloaders here since the 50's had very short washtimes"... well, I'm not too comfortable with that statement, perhaps it's because I'm not considering only the UK washing machines of that era but those throughout Europe in general. However, the fact that you said “Programme 5 wash (40d cotton, 3 rinses & fast 800 spin)” makes me feel that UK machines also had other cycles before this number which would have had a much longer duration!

I know of many vintage European automatic FL which foresaw an hour biological pre-wash at a temperature of 60 degree to be added to another hour (or longer) main wash at 90/60 and again over half an hour for performing 4 rinses and a final spin. Even without the Bio pre-wash a long cotton cycle would boast over an hour main wash. I see as a much fairer statement something that reads "Our frontloaders here since the 50's had both short and long (or medium) washtimes". In other words the user is in control of how long a wash cycle has to last (in spite of high temperatures on short ones).

I absolutely don't see much difference between those vintage washers and the modern ones in terms of wash times, only some low end models nowadays compel the user to abide by extremely long wash times even on a 40 degree cycle, as most machines are equipped with time saving facilities. Water levels are probably responsible for a major difference between old and new models but even that can often be tweaked by means of available options or cycles.
 
really assuming you have tonge in cheek typing it

Hi Mike

Of course I have, can't believe you'd think I wouldn't!!

What a load of drivel it is though - I'm sure they'll be queuing up in their droves to stick the 12 minute wonder RH (have we also seen these as 'Swan' too? seems all the kettle manufacturers are now flogging washers too) in the back of the hatchback! How long before they make the trip to the dump though?

The main factors are 1) cheap price, 2) easy availability - what's easier than the supermarket and 3) any old sales nonsense that they can get away with. The average consumer is not aware of, or interested in, the level of detail that contributors on here are concerned about. Bung the clothes in (stuffed to the gills ideally, none of this 3kg business), switch on and if they are damp and smell of detergent and/or fabric conditioner at the end, all is well...I bet they sell them in bucket loads. Of course we now have detergents with anti-bacterial agents just in case anyone actually wants clean clothes too, so it's all sorted.

Just to clarify 12 mins start to finish - is this a cold wash? How long does an average front-loader take even to fill and damp down?!? I've no idea how these things work, what with being a real Luddite with my gas guzzler top-loader and it's standard 40 degree wash in 40 mins etc...

:-)
 
With the old 1976 FL westy the timer motor does not start until the water level is to the proper height. With an unrestricted garden hose here it pumps out about 300 gallon per hour at the back of the houses faucet; and about 400 by the faucet at the front tapped off the input line. In the house through the pipes and water solenoid; maybe 100 to 200 numbers would be normal. At 100 GPH 5 gallons would be 3 minutes;at 200GPH it would be 1.5 minutes. Thus with an old machine with no software, many times a normal small to mid sized wash load is off washing in a few minutes, with the water OFF.

With the new LG, it is still in fart around mode, with a finger in its bum sensing the load; doing a detangle, ie starting to do its tiny sprays. 5 minutes after start the new FL washer's clothes are still mostly bone dry. The clothes are in the basket and the water does not even touch it. The washer washes like a wimpy shower; more like taking a shower with a hand spray bottle on a submarine.

It is sort of like the turtle and the hare; the old machine is full filled and washing while the new high tech machine is in the the software world of jackaround. ie goal is to sense the load; do detangles so the spray works. It sprays some; the moves to hope with time are things are hit with the spray.

The technology is different; the old machine allows the user to define the load, the new machine goes into a torque sense set of motions. ie one is considered to stupid to set the water level like it is 1950.

One trades quickness of an older machine to using less water in a new machine that just sprays clothes and takes longer. The old 1976 FL westy uses 20 to 30 gallons total and the time is 42min max. The new machine uses 10 to 15 gallons and to clean as well takes an added prewash is used; thus the time is 75 minutes. This added loss of time of 33 minutes is OK to many; half the USA is on the dole or unemployed or retired.

Here with some of use still working; the trade off of spending 10 cents extra to save 1/2 hour's time would be wanted; but the beloved government has made FL washers chase that 225 bucks of tax money; thus we get longer cycles to cope with the showering and less water.

The water police are shocked that many of us really want to hack the new FL machine to "be like the old days" ie use more water and wash quicker. ie I like many folks only wash 2.5 times a week; about 130 times per year. Loons cannot understand how saving 65 hours a year in time matters. They are appalled that the extra 1200 gallons does not matter to many of us. ie one spends the extra 12 dollars and saves 65 hours. Some of us make more than 20 to 25 cents per hour; while 1/2 the country cannot fathom even how time matters.
 
With the way and what I typically wash; the new FL washer takes about 35 to 45 minutes longer than the old FL machine; it is more like only 20 to 30 minutes since the new machine spins and extracts better.

From a standpoint of using a product for 50 years then seeing the new replacements taking 20 to 30 minutes longer; the calling the newer device BETTER seams questionable.

Like many things the government has messed with, we end users do a lot of swearing. One has the 15 percent ethanol in gas; and now we often have small engine problems. All that benefit of ethanol for me gets blown in carb rebuilds; dumping bad gas; starting engines to keep them ungummed. Thus to avoid the issue some of us buy aviation fuel or non ethanol gas for dumb engines like mowers and outboards. ie it is cheaper to buy some non ethanol gas 50 miles away than spend money with carb cleaners and denatured alcohol for cleaning.

 
Why oh why....

...are people so hung up on the TIME it takes an AUTOMATIC machine to do it's job? We live in the here and now and have to deal with what we can buy now (or restore and keep going).

 

Humans are capable of learning....

 

...so LEARN to do something with the hours these machines free up for you....

 

and....

 

...LEARN to change your habits to accomodate new technology - that is, washing with less water and for longer with different quantities of detergents/additives....If that means washing every other day rather than on one specific day, well try it. You never know, you may like hearing the sound of your machine more regularly and it may just solve a few other 'issues' too!

 

It gets a bit tiring hearing the same old comments about the same things time and again.
 
Deliberate Swindlers:

Just saw the silver model in the link above (thanx paulc) and I couldn't believe how these people can deliberately attempt to swindle the public...

I quote "Asda shopper’s energy consumption by 30% and water usage by 15%. Based on average machine using 90 litres of water a wash, compared with the 12 minute cycle using 30 litres, times 5 washes a week..."

I say... where did they get that term of comparison from? They must have sought high and low to find a 7kg machine in the market which uses 90l of water! And by claiming the 5 loads against 1 they make it sound that the 12 minute wash cycle would be enough to clean a whole 7kg load of dirty laundry: this is just outrageous!

What's next... a washing machine that completes a 10kg load just by thinking of it (through some neurological connections I'm sure): you won't even need to load the machine nor to press the start button! Your clothes will already be back in the cupboard, well... they wouldn't have never left it.
 
As far as humans "getting use to" a newer device that takes longer to do a job; folks vary if it matters.

If I went to Europe and detuned folks cars and the subways and trains so folks work commute takes 1/2 hour longer; many would not care; others might complain.

Retired folks, homeless and the unemployed would not be so concerned, since they have way less schedules, no deadlines.

Others with actual jobs might have deadlines and schedules and thus 1/2 hour delays does matter, ie they have actual commitments; ie they have a clock and deadlines.

New Appliances are suppose to save one time; not waste time. This was how home appliances were marketed eons ago; before government tax credits.

New front load washers of today take longer than machines of 60 years ago; some folks think this is progress; ie product that takes longer

Others of us that are employed look at products that take longer to do a job than 1950 product a poorer product; one not as good as one 60 years ago since they take longer.

I suppose if I detuned Europes trains to just 20 KM/hr and made wash times be 4 hours few would be concerned, the bulk of folks would worship the government's changes as good and progess.

Eons ago home appliances were marketed to save one time.

Maybe the world will drop DSL and cable modems and go to totally dialup since time really doesnt matter?
 
Your analogy is bunkum! Please find another....

...The time it takes an individual to load and start and then unload an AUTOMATIC when finished is no different today compared to 5, 10, 40 or 70 years ago. The time it takes an AUTOMATIC to do the job is, by and large, irrelevant. Go and do something else with the 'in between' time seeing as the individual isn't actually involved in it.

 

HOWEVER....

 

...the relationship between a passenger and a train are vastly different. You are required to 'take part' and the time it takes is both important and relevant.

 

ADDITIONALLY....

 

...the impact of Europes trains running slowly impacts on the whole of Europe. An individuals washing machine taking 45minutes or 5 hours impacts on no-one other than the individual and ONLY if they CHOOSE to do nothing with the time between loading and unloading....

 

Do we need a time and motion study here?
 
really...

I initally thought that it was Daily Mail, reporting on non news articles, then other places like The Sun, Mirror and Express reported on this thing.

Personally, I don't believe in rapid cycles at all, I just use the 30 degrees synthetics to get a good but quick wash. I think anyone who believes that they can get a 7kg wash done in 12 minutes thinks Road Runner must live in that washing machine.

I think today, washing experiences in general, is a mess. Low water levels, low water temperatures and miniture concentrated detergents have ruined washing in general. I think the EU are using laundry as too much of a scapegoat, and a 12 minute wash cycle is taking the biscuit. I'm sure a rapid wash should be at least 40 minutes with adequate rinsing and a good wash time. I know that with a rapid wash the heater isn't used, whatever the incoming water temperature is, it is the wash temperature, and with all machines virtually cold fill, don't expect a hot wash.

I can't believe that people are actually worrying about how long wash cycles are, you just fill the machine with clothes, switch it on and go! I think that the only use of a rapid cycle is getting something washed at the last minute, and even that should be at least 30 minutes. Anything less is crazy.

Rant over!

Clearly if someone wanted to buy a washing machine and use it only for rapid wash cycles or purely due to its rapid wash should look at this article.

Washing Machine Wash Times And Quick Wash

We are asked all the time if a certain program time is correct or we get the complaint that a washing machine is taking too long to wash, these days that usually means over two hours to complete a wash program
www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk
 
The way I see it...

Some people are just so stuck in the past and stuck in their old ways, they will find any excuse under the sun for why the 'modern' or 'different' way of doing things is inferior or doesn't work as well or is more difficult or causes other problems blah blah blah...

If you wait around for your AUTOMATIC washing machine to finish a cycle when you don't want to, you really need to find something else to occupy your time...

Matt
 
Why not detune electric & gas dryers to 1000 watts or 3400 B

Ronic; your analogy that time does not matter is good for retired, unemployed, folks on the dole.

For folks running a business; time matters. It matters to some who are not working too.

Newer Front loaders take more time than older FL washers.

Whether a new product such as a toaster, washer, lawnmower, dryer takes longer and does not bother you depends on how one values ones time.

By your analogy, it really does not matter if the government mandates dryers only have 1/4 the heat input and dry times are thus 4 times longer; ie one just finds something else to do.

Ie you have no schedules; thus long wash and long dry times would not bother you.

ie you have no schedules; no emergency business trips.

ie it would not bother you to use a 500 watt electric burner instead of a 1500 watt one; since time has no meaning. Thus to further make the government control be better; outlaw ranges and stoves that have higher outputs; ie everybody can just wait longer.

ie make it so a coffee pot takes 15 minutes versus 5 minutes by cutting the power input from 1500 watts to 400 and let folks just wait longer; since time has no bearing.

Maybe this not carrying about time will have laws passed to scrap out dryers above 1000 watts/3400 BTUH. This would drop the electrical demand and gas demand; ie the peak flow. All would not care because they can be doing something else while waiting.

The government's could have cash for clunkers, if ones dryer is above 1000 watts/3400 BTUH; crush them. This WOULD help drop peak electrical and gas usage.

***Make is so to wash and dry one load take 6 hours via government mandate via taxing dryers above 1000 watts/3400 BTUH 200 bucks and giving a tax break of 250 for dryers that use below 1000w/3400 btuh. Give a tax break to turn in the old clunker to feed to the crusher.

Who cares it if takes 4 times longer to dry clothes; or if the government makes the max speed limit just 45 MPH/70 KPH; one can just be doing something else?

It means if a football team wants to wash the uniforms after a 8pm game; who cares if the laundry kid has to say up to sunrise; ie the new stance is a 2012 mandated detuned washer and dryer is high tech and better if it takes 5 times longer.

Here in the USA home appliances eons ago were designed to save time; not take longer than the items they replaced.

As the salesman say today ; they are embarrassed how long the new machines take to wash clothes. ie The time is professionally unacceptable to a longer term washer user.
 
Peace :)

<span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Interesting debate, mixed reactions & everyone has a right to express an opinion, no matter who is right or wrong, at the end of the day we can’t change Morden Times and weather we chose to accept or not we all just have to learn to deal with it. </span>

<span style="font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Hass :) </span>
 
3belt...

...you have missed the point completely.

 

I work and manage my time accordingly. 5 minutes to load and 3 minutes to unload. The amount in between, I, and the vast majority of others, do something useful with...

 

...and frankly, I'm wasting my energy engaging with you further on this topic.
 
3beltwesty

your discussion is pointless, it feels like coming from a middle aged frustrated man.

Time matters to everybody. Don't think that even if my machine takes 2 hours to complete a load I babysit it!
I load it and by morning laundry is done or I load it in the morning and go out, shopping, working, university or whatever.
If you don't like having appliances running when you're not home then you can simply run it at dinner time! All in all, washing and drying shouldn't ever take more than 4 hours even with the longest European times (slow condensing dryer in a hot room and long hot wash).

Detuning burners or dryers is just a pointless and stupid idea! And doesn't hold as an example as is talking about slow trains in Europe (and figure that the average speed here is just a little more than double the American hi-speed rail system!).

And also, IT DOES CHANGE USING A SMALL BURNER VERSUS A BIG ONE!

You might not know how to cook but as cooking is NOT an automatic process (and this reminds me that an automatic washing machine is AUTOMATIC) you have to watch what you're cooking and also you need sufficient power.
As an example of this, when preparing pasta or broth, you need a full flame to bring back the water to boil after you pour the pasta, otherwise you get a sticky gooey mess, oh wait, maybe you like your pasta cooked that way!

Oh BTW, I almost forgot, when they introduced the new Eurostar trains from Bologna to Milan, taking just one hour for the travel, the regional trains were detuned, as you like to say, taking almost 30 minutes more for the same trip. There was a HUGE movement of all the commuters and the railways started working up their schedules again to meet consumer demand. Maybe it's just the USA that never listen to the needs of real people.

Oh and again, about washday:
My washday is take the laundry basket, sort laundry, load washing machine, load detergents, unload washing machine, hang.

Never soaked, pretreated or used bleach, unless exceptional cases. Operations that are the norm with all the top loaders I've known of, simply because they don't clean as well as front loaders or because of deficient detergents.

Also, if you want FAST washes, get a commercial machine, they don't clean any better than a home machine with the same length wash cycle (washing alone, excluding rinse and spin).
Commercial machines have shorter cycles because of high turnaround. If something isn't cleaned the first time, it gets rewashed. FINISHED.
At home on the other hand EVERYTHING must come clean the first time! So the housewife is happy of her appliance. So you have a longer wash cycle.

Anyway, this is going to be my last post as whatever you say, 3beltwesty, is pointless and interests nobody anymore.
 
Time does matter

Fascinating to see the wide ranging and practically emotional response to all this - Mike what have you done to us!! :-)

For my tuppence, time does matter, but this is down to personal preference and how we organise ourselves in our home - other people will be different. I'm a bit old-fashioned I guess in that I like to do a 'laundry day' on Saturday morning for a number of reasons - it allows me build up separate full loads of whites (usually at least two, if not three), light colours, dark colours, duvet covers and pillowcases and heavy fabrics like jeans and hoodies - so anywhere upwards of eight loads. The second reason is a geographic one - I like to line-dry if at all possible (I know lots of people won't get this, but for me nothing beats fifteen metres of brilliant whites drying in the air!!), so choosing the right day is important in a hit-and-miss climate like ours. Finally, not doing laundry every day means that ironing (bleuck) gets done in one fell swoop on Sunday evening, rather than being an ever-present curse.

So this weekend has been amazing - strong breezes, bright sun and no rain - perfect, so to use the farmer's adage 'make hay, while the sun shines'. Doesn't always work in the land of the leprechauns of course, so the back-up must be the dryer - but less than you might think. This will mean nothing to people who live in lovely climates where you can line-dry every day of the year!

Having a top-load washer that does a 60C wash in a hour, 40 in about 45, etc really helps (so does a second machine too!). When I had the Bosch (never again), an A-rated 60 took 2.5 hours+, so do the maths - the reality was running loads every day and accepting that most of them got baked in the dryer. I don't sit and watch my automatic, but I do like it to turn over loads quickly AND with good results. 12 minute washing seems like nonsense to me, but equally A+rated FLs (like my mum's hotpoint FL - 3.5 hours for a 60c wash) push the envelope way too far the other direction...

Finally - here's what annoys me most - washers with nominal A-ratings that are marketed for their non A-rated cycles. Does Russell-Hobbs (or is it ASDA-Walmart) claim the 12 minute cycle as A-rated, or is that reserved for some impossibly long test cycle that no-one will ever use? Other have been doing this for ages - Bosch claims 60 in 60 minutes etc, but that's without the Wash-Plus/Stains setting (and extra hour and half plus) that is required for the A-rated test cycle - others do the same too I'm sure. The grading regulations are a bit of a nonsense when this happens...
 
I often

put a load of washing on just before bed, then hang it out on the line first thing in the morning (liberator1509, your not the only one who likes lines of whites!)

That way I can enjoy the benefits of the 2+ hour wash cycles for delivering perfect whites, and not have it intrude on my time.

If I need things in a hurry, I use the quick cycle, but obviously that isn't going to get grubby socks white!

Matt
 

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