1978 Norge bearings? Seal?

[akronman]

I have a Norge washer, 20#, model LWA2065B, from 76 or 78 (Fedders era), with the white Burp-A-Lator. All has been well until a week ago. Wash agitation was fine, it paused then started neutral drain. When it kicked into spin, it was VERY slow. I waited until almost all water was out, then gave it a hand-push by turning the agitator. It got up to full speed. I did the same again for the final spin, the load was full of towels. I then tried a light load of clothes, agitation fine, then when spin kicked in, a rumbling grinding noise for a few seconds, then the motor overload tripped out. I also noticed a small amount of water dripping from the base. So I don't know if it's bearings--tranny--tub seal, all of the above? 2 loads earlier was a perfect wash, very rapidly something(S) failed entirely.

I drained her and let her sit for a week, I just moments ago tried a dry agitation and it was fine. When I turned to spin, almost immediately the motor cut out.

There's not a lot of Norge literature out there, and the model #LWA2065B00 doesn't help me anywhere at all, out of 12 parts websites. I have a 1970 Norge(Fedders) Repair Master. It shows both a brake solenoid and a clutch solenoid, mine is a later model with only the loud brake solenoid, so I can only somewhat trust what that book shows.

 

I love this machine, I have had great luck thru hard work repairing/restoring many other makes, but not much Norge work. til now!

 

Any advice on where to start, what bearing kit to buy, what to tear into, will be greatly appreciated and photoed and posted. I'll do more reading in the 1970 Repair Master tonight, but can't yet figure why locked up spinning is also giving me a leak. I ain't guessing this is gonna be an easy fix, but after 18 months with that great machine burping away and doing everything loud and well, it will be worth it.

 

[akronman]

more

here's a link to when I first got the machine, for more exact and perfect ID.

Cinci to Akron Ohio Norge

It works! It's also dirtier than hell inside the outer tub. Volvoguy got the machine wth a spare motor, knowing the original was either shot or nearly so. I let it sit in the basement about 9 hours at 65 degrees to warm up, all the pulleys and belts turned nicely, so I put it in spin and...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[akronman]

purchase a kit

so far, I have found this kit at RepairClinic, but they are saying unavailable. Is it at least the correct kit? It is listed as Norge, Monkey Wards, Magic Chef, Admiral and Crosley!!!!!

Other than that, so far the web is very unhelpful.

http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Tub-Seal-and-Bearing-Kit/LA2009/1623

 

[Unimatic1140]

I've got just the thread for you Mark...

Taking apart a 1964 Montgomery Wards/Norge Plus-Capacity Washer

Some of you guys might remember just over a year ago Fred found this delicious MW washer on craigslist, here is the original post. The machine had a few problems at first, but I was able to fix them and get it running rather fast. I got about 25 to 30 washings out of the machine before a leaky...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[cfz2882]

norge bearing

IIRC,Robert replaced a bearing on a ~1964 norge if you can find that thread your later norge may be similar if not the same.Since the motor was overloading on your washer,might be a clutch rather than bearing problem?

 

[combo52]

Malfunctioning Norge Washer

Hi Mark, it does sound like you are in for a major tub bearing and seal job, but I can't quite figure why the motor is going out on overload when the brake solenoid releases the brake to let the tub start spinning. These washers do not have a clutch as such, when the machine is doing its neutral drain the bottom input shaft going into the bottom of the transmission is turning full speed and a helix spring in the bottom of the transmission is slipping away but applying some driving force trying to make the tr-any and basket spin so the motor load will actually be reduced when the brake solenoid is on and the tub is free to start spinning. Maybe I am not understanding your description of the problem ?  Call me if you like, John.

 

[akronman]

John and Robert

John---I will do more investigations before I take anything apart. This will end up being major surgery for sure.

 

Robert--thanks for the link, excellent!

[this post was last edited: 5/30/2013-07:41]

 

[redcarpetdrew]

A potentially dumb question...

Could an article of clothing gotten in between the tubs? Lord knows I've seen a Maytag or twenty eat a sock or something...

RCD

 

[akronman]

further investigation

The Norge is out of the line up currently, no water, no clothes. I tipped it back to check the belt, all looks fine there. I took off the front to inspect more, all looks fine and the brake solenoid engages. So I plugged her in, put her in a dry agitate and all is well. Then I put her in the spin mode of the pre-wash, and she spins just fine!!!!!! Of course, with no water it immediately kicks into spin, no waiting for a partial neutral drain. As loud as ever, but right up to speed. Then the motor eventually properly stops and she coasts to a stop and then soon the brake engages and the timer stops. So right now all looks well. The motor has the proper tensioning spring in place perfectly, the motor pivots a bit as it switches from CCW to CW for its various functions.

 

I may have misspoken in the very first posting here, I truly don't rememebr if it was the motor overload cutting out a week ago or the circuit breaker across the room. I am more remembering the breaker on the wall, not the motor overload. Big difference, I know. Does that tell me that agitate windings were dry, but a seal leak let water hit a weak exposed wire in the spin windings instead? Is that my recent problem? But that doesn't explain why 2 times I hand-spun it and it got up to speed, that doesn't explain the rumbling nasty noise before it tripped the breaker. I am pretty sure breaker, not any Norge electric component.

 

Something tells me it's time to pour a few gallons in and watch down below. I am happy it's running in both agitate and spin right now, but no water and no clothes isn't really a working washer, is it? I'll post more later after the water tests. This one has me thinking a lot and confused for a while, oh well.

 

 A side question---during normal operation, no opening of the lid to sound that loud brake, and no shutting off the machine mid-cycle to engage that loud brake--------the heavy brake band pretty much stays in one exact position on the shaft as it agitates and the shaft doesn't turn, then during spin the band stays tight on that same section and turns exactly with the shaft, right? The only time it really catches and stays in place while the shaft continues to turn is the 3 seconds it brakes everything when the lid is opened or the cycle stopped in the middle? Am I making any sense? Kinda thinking aloud here, typing aloud.

 

[akronman]

more

with 1/2 a tub of water, agitation is fine and no leaks from the bearing/seal. As soon as spin begins, a slow but steady stream of water down from the tub seal, onto the tranny and spun around the base of the washer, the motor, etc. So she needs a full bearing/seal replacement.

 

[combo52]

Malfunctioning Norge Washer

Hi Mark, your further posts mark this failure more plausible, Is this washer plugged into a ground fault circuit?. A slight water leak could differently trip a GF breaker and possibility even a regular one. There is not a separate winding in the motor for wash and spin only a set of start windings and the run windings. You are correct that the brake is not normally used on these Norge style machines with the brake solenoid unless you kill the power or raise the lid when the tub is spinning.

 

These 20 pound Cap Norges draw a LOT of amps with their silly 3/4 HP motors, if you are going to rebuild and keep this washer as a daily driver I would substitute a 1/2 HP motor at some point, doing this will save you from destroying the timer and water-level switch and having other wiring failures, the bigger motor was NEVER needed and just caused lots of problems.

 

Keep us posted, John

 

[brianl]

So that begs the question...

Why possibly was Norge using such large motors? What benefit were they looking for? I am very Norge-dumb at the moment.

 

[akronman]

Hey John Combo

John----this one is only 1/2HP. When I got the machine from Dave Volvoguy in early 2012, it came with a used replacement Norge 1/2 HP motor, which I immediately installed. The original 3/4 had failed, that is why the machine was up for grabs from some local guy.

 

All my basement is GFCI except for the one outlet for my GE Filter Flo. 2 different late 70's GE's often tripped the GFCI at one exact same spot in the regular cycle, so I put one outlet back to regfular  and only use the GE there, who knows.

 

BAck to the Norge-----Robert's thread on his 64 machine so far looks amazinlgy similar to my 78 Norge----the bearing and seal repair kit is known as LA-2009, there may easily be other kits I don't know off. So far NO LUCK with websearching, etc.

http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Tub-Seal-and-Bearing-Kit/LA2009/1623

 

[akronman]

Oh wow

So i called my nearby Appliance Parts store, and $80 later look what I now have. He said it's been on his shelf since 82, his last pricing was 2005, it's his last one. I have no idea if I could have found one cheaper, oh well.

As great as my old Norge is, with summer here various laundry projects go a bit slower than in January. I will keep you posted--

Thanks for advice John--Robert--and all

 

[Unimatic1140]

Yay for new parts! Keep us posted as to the progress and its nice you were able to get a new outer tub support hub.

 

[norgeway]

Norge 3/4 horse motor..

Norge marketed there washers much as Speed Queen does now, commercial grade washers for the home,there were tons of Norge landromats in those days,just as there were and still are Speed Queens, Norge was very much over built, the secret to long life with a Norge is DO NOT!! raise the lid while spinning, the brake is the weak point, let it stop on its own completely before opening.All in all, it will outwash about anything, IMHO!

 

[akronman]

work begins

I GENTLY used a gear puller to remove the agitator. HAd it given me any resistance, I would have stopped immediately. But all went well. Pic shows after removal

 

[akronman]

base of agitator post

there's this plastic sleeve, looks like it keeps the agitatotr centered at its base instead of wobbling too much. You can see the keyslots where it lines up

 

[akronman]

3 bolts

3 bolts only, versus 6 on Robert's 1964 machine. I used PB Blaster and let it soak overnight. a 1/2" 6 point closed end wrench and a big mallet was all that was needed to undo them.