1979 Hotpoint 1509/10 overhaul

[triumphtoledo]

Cabinet – part 4

Finally for today, to ensure an even surface, particularly on the area that had car body filler applied, three coats of filler primer were sprayed over the etch. This product sprays on like custard, the idea being that it covers all the bumps and imperfections, which you can sand back, to give an even surface afterwards.

Afterwards, I used a simple can of black spray paint to provide a ‘guide’ coat. When I sand the filler primer back (with 400 grit wet-and-dry), the surface is even, when all the black paint is gone. The filler primer needs leaving for at least 48 hours to cure, before it can be worked on further.

Once done, I hope that the cabinet shall then be ready for its last coat of top-coat, in white, maybe next week.

R

 

[ooversanwashers]

Great work looks like its coming along nicely.

Thanks

 

[sesteve]

Hey Rob

Counterface on its way to you - hopefully you will get it tomorrow. You make this cabinet restoration look really easy but I'm sure if I had a go it would look terrible. I thought it looked really good with the etch primer so its going to look fantastic when you've finished it. I'll have to send you my Hoovermatic 3314L for you to work on when you are done. Its in a sorry state cosmetically and I haven't got round to sorting it out yet!

S

 

[triumphtoledo]

A thousand thanks...

Cheers Steve for mailing out the counter-face. I look forward very much to its arrival.

As I used to work in an automotive paint-shop, renovating a cabinet is no different to car bodywork - it is all pressed steel, hence my transfer of skills.

The most time consuming bit is stripping to bare metal, which anyone can do. The etch-priming looks great from a distance but it is only a thin later of paint and paint tends to exaggerate any imperfections, not cover it up. That's why the filler primer stage is important.

I have some car bodywork stuff to do at home later in the year/2016 and so etch priming a washer cabinet, while I am doing, say a door or a roof, is not a problem.

R

 

[triumphtoledo]

Liberator 'blue'

My paint man has mixed up a 1/3 of a litre of the closest we can get to the blue/grey colour that is used for the kick-strip and the console.

It is RAF Grey, British Standard Code 633. The picture shows the console wrapper against the colour. I plan to simply mask the cabinet up, when the white paint is applied - the effect will be the same.

The minimum amount of paint that I could order is 1/3 of a litre and so if anyone needs consoles/lids painting in the next fortnight, let me know.

R

 

[triumphtoledo]

Cabinet - part 4

Filler primer rubbed down and cabinet sprayed with four coats of top-coat.

R

 

[triumphdolomite]

Paint Job

That's looking good Rob, what paint have you used? Is it appliance white or an automotive paint. Triumph white 19?
Ian

 

[triumphtoledo]

white paint

HI Ian,
Thanks for your kind words. No, the paint is not a BL colour; I selected a bright white from a basic colour chart and it was mixed for me.

The final finish is very good and I am pretty pleased with it. I shall simply mask off the bottom part of the cabinet later in the week and spray the blue/grey finish to replicate the kick strip - the console section also needs stripping and repainting as well, which I shall do, when I can grab a few hours.

R

 

[triumphtoledo]

Mechanical update

Thanks to sesteve, who provided a very good used counterface, I was able to reassemble the machine over the weekend.

The counterface was fitted with a new rubber mount (the original had gone so hard, I thought it was made from plastic) and was glued into the rebuilt support tube. While I thought that the original rubber bellows would be OK to reuse, I am glad that I bought a new one, because the old one had perished around its 'neck.'

On the advice of James Rankin, I also glued the main carbon seal assembly to the bowl support.

The outer drum was scrubbed clean, the heater soaked in limescale remover (which appeared to make no difference) and bolted to the chassis. The wiring was connected up and the outer bowl was refitted, followed by the new clamp kit and top seal/tripod kit.

R

 

[triumphtoledo]

Friction damper repair tip

It seems as though the friction dampers suffer from the friction material falling off and being lost.

With replacements being either obsolete or very expensive, I found that cutting a section of friction material from a car brake pad and glueing it to the friction damper body works!

R

 

[mjp2002]

Limescale

Could you not soak the heater element in vinegar or part fill the tub with vinegar and water and bring the water up to 85oC on programme 1 like you would descale a kettle?

 

[sesteve]

Wow - the paint job looks great and the colour match is really good - it is a bluey grey colour so look forward to seeing the finished result. What kind of white paint is it?

Glad the counterface arrived. Its funny but the service manual covering the 1504 is more detailed than the later ones. It says in there to glue the bottom seal to the bowl support and to grease the inside of the drive nut as well as the gearbox outer tube. I have found that the sealing ring for the bellows seal is a real pain to deal with - there is no obvious way of ensuring that it is tight enough so hopefully the debor glue should help in your case.

The other funny thing with my 1504 was that it was missing bits - water slinger, spring washer and cork washer. I have a suspicion that these were not used originally - the service manual does say of the cork washer - where fitted - but its not clear on the others! Perhaps they were design improvements.

Good work on the dampers too. They have quite a grip so its good you managed to prise them open to get them glued in. Almost done now!

S

 

[triumphtoledo]

Aggghhhh!

Sorry for the minor delay, a few things have been getting in the way recently but I have managed to spend some time trying to get the machine running.

I managed to get a couple of test washes done and, guess what? It leaks! Water is still dripping from the support tube. I’ve had the machine apart four times, trying different techniques and I can conclude that it is definitely coming from the bottom seal/support.

I doubt that the support tube is at fault, as it was checked for flatness and the bowl support is in its original position, far enough down the outer shaft (thanks Stephen for the tip!).

What I think is that the outer tube is allowing water to come up the support tube and down, through the bottom seal and down through the support. This may be because I had to remove quite a bit of corrosion from it, so maybe it is no longer thick enough. Either that, or the bottom seal was faulty.

So, before I get completely sick of it, I think that I will have to strip the machine down totally this time and replace the upper gearbox support tub with a second-hand part – Ian, does that offer of taking that scrap top-loader off your hands still standing?! I can collect Saturday en-route to parents…

R

 

[triumphtoledo]

Quick update... spares machine

Thanks to Ian, I collected a donor machine (9600 was it Ian?) and dropped it at my house at 5.00pm on Sunday.

By 9.00pm, it was stripped completely and I am taking the best of both machines for the 1509/10.

The transmission top half and support tube are in much better condition (with hardly any play). I have now stripped the 1509 down (again) and mated the late transmission top with the original bottom half. Interestingly, 10mm bolts are used on the later models, 11mm on the older.

Also, the transmission casing is galvanised on the later models, not so on the earlier. Not everything on the earlier models is better, obviously. Mine had rust inside the gearbox, and the new oil was filthy, so it was drained out again and everything cleaned up and derusted, before yet more new oil was added.

The top seal for the outer tub is also different, thicker and seemingly more effective and so that shall go on the older machine too.

If anyone needs any parts from the spares machine, please get in touch. The cabinet is in really nice order and it would be a shame for me to cut it up. Let me know if anything is needed. I think Stephen has dibs on some suspension dampers...

R

 

[triumphtoledo]

Final cabinet pics

Well, the machine may leak and not work but, hey, I have finished the cabinet.

Rather than reuse the split, faded and tatty kick-strip (which would have been a nightmare to stick down), I decided to mask up the bottom three inches of the cabinet and spray along the entire front and side lengths, which is not only easier to mask but also gives a bit of extra protection against knocks.

The console trims were all stripped back to bare metal, etch-primed and painted. The side sections are very thick - no wonder Hotpoint changed them to plastic later, to save costs.

Anyway, I tried to reproduce the original mottled effect and, while the result is not 100% even, it's not bad for someone who is used to painting things shiny.

R

 

[sesteve]

Hey Rob

Glad you picked up the donor machine - and it great condition too - I would have the cabinet for my 9605 but its a bit far to collect for me so will have to sort out the scratch on it another way and yes please to the dampers.

Is that a doily in the bottom of the outer tub amongst the limescale and goodness knows what else? Seems like there is a lot of gunk in that machine too. Could you see what was wrong with the gearbox on it as you stripped it down? The cabinet is looking good with the kick strip so will look really smart when it is finished.

I've attached the 4 pages from the 1504 model so you can see the additional detail in case it helps.

Cheers
S

 

[triumphdolomite]

9605

Rob
Glad everything is coming on ok and its going to provide the spares you need. Looking forward to seeing everything back together and working. Thanks for the strawberries, delicious!

Steve
It was my daily driver for 10 years or so, and the first machine I purchased when I left home. I took it out of service as it was throwing oil about inside and onto the floor and over the belt and clutch and struggling to get upto any sort of useful speed on spin. I decided to let Rob have this rather than the 9600 I have in similar condition as I'm not sure that there is a 9600 in preservation.
I must say that I'm horrified at all the gunk in the outer tub, I know the water here is quite hard but where all the fluff has come from I haven't a clue, Yes it is a doiley! I knew it was in there somewhere as I'd lost it when doing some washing for my Mum about 7 or 8 years ago at least. It looks to have survived remarkably well considering all the 60 and 95 deg washing I used to do. I have to admit I have now inherited the rest of the matching set!

Ian

 

[sesteve]

Hi Ian.

Did you have it from new as that would explain why it's in such good nick? I'm guessing the top oil seal must have failed for that to happen - it wasn't getting into the wash as well was it? There is a design flaw with all the top loader models. The well for the heater is a collection pit for all manner of fluff and other bits that go through the machine. It would have been better if the well had extended into the drain outlet as the heater is interlinked to the water level so should have been fine to drain out at the end. I'm dreading looking at my 1509 - I washed a couple of cheap sofa throws that I bought from Sainsburys when I moved in. The filter tray was totally clogged and there wasn't a lot left of the throws! The rest of it must be stuck round the heater.

At least the limescale shows you were doing high temperature washes but you must have done lots of loads in it for that much and the doily may be fine after a wash in the machine rather than under it.

Steve

 

[triumphtoledo]

Latest update after assembly

Well, I put the machine innards back together yesterday, filled it up with water and - IT LEAKS!

The water still is coming from the centre of the support tube. I tore it down again last night and removed the main seal from the bottom of the bowl support, cleaned its mount and reglued it into place.

I then cleaned the main shaft of grease and silicon-sealed the support to the shaft and left it overnight to cure.

This morning, I filled the machine with water before work and - drip, drip, drip - still emanating from the centre of the support shaft.

Other than replacing the bottom seal with another new one, I am out of ideas.

In summary, the machine has had a good second-hand support tube and top shaft, a new bowl mount, main seal and top seal kit and new gaiter that seals the support tube to the outer drum. I will add that the main seal and top hat kit was a pattern Qualtex part, as I could not obtain genuine.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to go next?

R

 

[sesteve]

Hi Rob

At what level was the water when it started leaking? If you fill the machine up gradually then it would point to which seal could be letting by. I've done a crappy drawing to show the 4 levels to check.

1. Looking at where it is leaking which appears to be the inside of the counterface I would say that the counterface mount and counterface should be ok - to prove you could fill up just so the bellows seal is covered. If it starts leaking then it is either of those or the joint between the face seal and the counterface. I'm not sure if there is a right and wrong way round to mount the face seal but it looks right from your pictures. It could be that the face seal is not sitting flat between the bowl support and the counterface either because the seal is distorted or the debor glue has not held it on level.

2. If that's ok and it doesn't leak, fill it up to the top of the bowl support just below the top of the bowl clamp. If it starts leaking here then it could be the o-ring in the bowl support.

3. If that's fine then fill further to below the top of the top seal

4. If that is ok fill to above the drive nut. If it leaks here then it could be the seal between the drive nut couterface and the top seal. Have you fitted the water slinger and o rings at the top of the shaft as shown in the drawings? These are not always included in the seal kits.

Hopefully that will at least identify which point is weak.
S