$20.00 belt drive
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directional cogs?
Yeah... in the agitator.... cogs, dogs, hogs, logs, pogs, frogs.... same stuff.
Great price though!
Kevin
Yeah... in the agitator.... cogs, dogs, hogs, logs, pogs, frogs.... same stuff.
Great price though!
Kevin
I knew the DD's used dogs in the agitator, not BD's.
The Dual-Action agitator originated on belt-drive Kenmores. They have dogs whether the machine is belt-drive or direct-drive.
$20.00 belt drive and agitator dogs
That's a suds saver machine, at least the control panel is meant for one. These panels are easily swapped between machines, all that is needed is the proper wiring harness coupler and any of them will connect on (there are several different wiring harnesses depending on the features of the machine and wiring needed).
The very first Dual Action agitators DID NOT have agitator dogs. There was a spring in between the base agitator and the auger, to assist in lifting the auger, and two sets of molded in matching/opposing "teeth" on the agitator and the auger. These teeth would slip in one direction, and engage in the other, like sliding two pre-fab staircases back and forth. The teeth looked like stairs... There were no moving parts in these except the auger and the agitator. They were NOISY, and didn't last long before they were replaced by the late 1977 early 1978 version which remained in production until the end of the BDs. This version had two red agitator shoes, which were easily three times the size of those used in a DD. They hardly ever seem to wear out, certainly not like the DD's do. I believe a few mid 1980s DDs used these original dogs too in their agitator, which used the BD auger.
Here is a picture of the Kenmore BD dog (which Whirlpool called a shoe).
Gordon
That's a suds saver machine, at least the control panel is meant for one. These panels are easily swapped between machines, all that is needed is the proper wiring harness coupler and any of them will connect on (there are several different wiring harnesses depending on the features of the machine and wiring needed).
The very first Dual Action agitators DID NOT have agitator dogs. There was a spring in between the base agitator and the auger, to assist in lifting the auger, and two sets of molded in matching/opposing "teeth" on the agitator and the auger. These teeth would slip in one direction, and engage in the other, like sliding two pre-fab staircases back and forth. The teeth looked like stairs... There were no moving parts in these except the auger and the agitator. They were NOISY, and didn't last long before they were replaced by the late 1977 early 1978 version which remained in production until the end of the BDs. This version had two red agitator shoes, which were easily three times the size of those used in a DD. They hardly ever seem to wear out, certainly not like the DD's do. I believe a few mid 1980s DDs used these original dogs too in their agitator, which used the BD auger.
Here is a picture of the Kenmore BD dog (which Whirlpool called a shoe).
Gordon
DA Agitator
you mean I could put a DA agitator on my 60's whirlpool?
you mean I could put a DA agitator on my 60's whirlpool?
DA in an older WP
Mark -
The answer to that is a definite "MAYBE".
Basically, the only belt-drive that could absolutely not accomodate a DA agitator is the 1967-1973 18lb. large capacity machines. Their agitator shafts are several inches too long.
The rest of the machines dimensionally can accomodate a DA. There are two basic versions if you skip the original ones I mentioned above. One version is for standard capacity machines, one is for large capacity. The only real difference with these two is the height of the auger, as the standard cap version has a shorter auger.
But, all that said, whether or not the standard version can be installed in your machine depends on the agitator shaft. If your machine has its original, with the single groove keyway and the metal hex drive lug, then a DA cannot be installed without changing the gearcase altogether or by changing the agitator shaft. What is needed is the splined shaft. If your machine has received a newer gearcase transplant at some point, then you're in luck.
Sears sold DA agitators in the catalog for years, and marketed the large cap version for 1974 and later washers, and the standard version for washers since 1968. They choose 1968 because that was the year that bakelite / driveblock agitators finally went away from all their offerings. The keyway was gone several years earlier, but I guess Sears didn't want to suggest to housewives that someone pull off (which isn't always easy) the factory plastic driveblock that was used on splined agitator shafts for those in-between years.
Gordon
Mark -
The answer to that is a definite "MAYBE".
Basically, the only belt-drive that could absolutely not accomodate a DA agitator is the 1967-1973 18lb. large capacity machines. Their agitator shafts are several inches too long.
The rest of the machines dimensionally can accomodate a DA. There are two basic versions if you skip the original ones I mentioned above. One version is for standard capacity machines, one is for large capacity. The only real difference with these two is the height of the auger, as the standard cap version has a shorter auger.
But, all that said, whether or not the standard version can be installed in your machine depends on the agitator shaft. If your machine has its original, with the single groove keyway and the metal hex drive lug, then a DA cannot be installed without changing the gearcase altogether or by changing the agitator shaft. What is needed is the splined shaft. If your machine has received a newer gearcase transplant at some point, then you're in luck.
Sears sold DA agitators in the catalog for years, and marketed the large cap version for 1974 and later washers, and the standard version for washers since 1968. They choose 1968 because that was the year that bakelite / driveblock agitators finally went away from all their offerings. The keyway was gone several years earlier, but I guess Sears didn't want to suggest to housewives that someone pull off (which isn't always easy) the factory plastic driveblock that was used on splined agitator shafts for those in-between years.
Gordon
1966_mustang
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Can anyone find a deal somewhere in the Atlanta area?? Looking for Vintage BD WP or Vintage Maytag
PAging Gordon
Gordon---both my WP and my KM have the old-fashioned hexagon block, and I have no intention of swapping transmissions or agitator shafts, was just wondering.
Thanks for the answer----they wash darn well as is, fine turnover. Date stamps on my transmissions show 1950 and 1955.
Gordon---both my WP and my KM have the old-fashioned hexagon block, and I have no intention of swapping transmissions or agitator shafts, was just wondering.
Thanks for the answer----they wash darn well as is, fine turnover. Date stamps on my transmissions show 1950 and 1955.
Dual Action Agitators
All WP built washers whether BD or DD that had Dual Action agitators had some sort of agitator dogs, as Kevin said you can call them by several different names, but the term dogs is a good one.
The splined agitator shaft first appeared in all WP built BD washers sometime in 1964 when they changed over to the Heavy Duty transmissions and to 1/2 HP motors to replace the 1/3 HP motors that had always been used before.
As Gordon started to say but didn't know the exact year, you could use a DAA in any WP built washer back to 1964 and in any WP built washer including the first KM bolt down washers dating back to 1947, that would be really cool to lift off the lid of a BD KM and see a DAA turning over a large load of clothing.
All WP built washers whether BD or DD that had Dual Action agitators had some sort of agitator dogs, as Kevin said you can call them by several different names, but the term dogs is a good one.
The splined agitator shaft first appeared in all WP built BD washers sometime in 1964 when they changed over to the Heavy Duty transmissions and to 1/2 HP motors to replace the 1/3 HP motors that had always been used before.
As Gordon started to say but didn't know the exact year, you could use a DAA in any WP built washer back to 1964 and in any WP built washer including the first KM bolt down washers dating back to 1947, that would be really cool to lift off the lid of a BD KM and see a DAA turning over a large load of clothing.
Found another WP BD--at last.Called an appliance swap shop advertised on a Food Lion register tape.they didn't have any BDs'but knew someone that did-immediatly called him-he had it-and $55.Got it yesterday-a WP Imp80-18Lb as indicated on the control panel.the tub looks deeper than others-will measure to see if that is true or an illusion.Will install it and try tonight.
Pet free DAs
John, you said "All WP built DAs had some sort of agitator dogs" after I stated that the initial versions didn't. I'll say again - the initial Dual Action agitators did not have some sort of 'dog'. The 1976, 1977, and early 1978 models had "ratchet" style DA agitators. There are no dogs, shoes, or even miniature socks in that agitator. Below is a link to the Sears parts schematic for a 1976 standard capacity 70-series DA model, with their online description of the parts.
All we see are the familiar agitator base and auger on one end, the traditional DA cap on the other, and some parts in between, with the spring I mentioned in the middle. There is also a couple seals, a retaining plate for the spring, and a one-piece clutch. There is nothing like the later shoe, or dog, or other synonym for a this sort of small moving part.
John, you said "All WP built DAs had some sort of agitator dogs" after I stated that the initial versions didn't. I'll say again - the initial Dual Action agitators did not have some sort of 'dog'. The 1976, 1977, and early 1978 models had "ratchet" style DA agitators. There are no dogs, shoes, or even miniature socks in that agitator. Below is a link to the Sears parts schematic for a 1976 standard capacity 70-series DA model, with their online description of the parts.
All we see are the familiar agitator base and auger on one end, the traditional DA cap on the other, and some parts in between, with the spring I mentioned in the middle. There is also a couple seals, a retaining plate for the spring, and a one-piece clutch. There is nothing like the later shoe, or dog, or other synonym for a this sort of small moving part.
Here is another link, this time for a 1978 model with the longer standing, familiar agitator shoes/dogs. The first 1978 models used the old version, and I had to go the the dash-2 revisions to find this new design. Everything produced after this (the 1979 to 1986 production) had the shoes/dogs as well.
Based on that I'd say the first 2.5 years or so of DA production had the wickedly loud 'ratchet' taters. I had about three machines with these in them in the 1990s - each one got a replacement later version from my parts scavenging trips.
I have a 1976 machine with the old version in it, as well as the three agitators that I removed - we'll have to do a photo essay on them sometime.
Based on that I'd say the first 2.5 years or so of DA production had the wickedly loud 'ratchet' taters. I had about three machines with these in them in the 1990s - each one got a replacement later version from my parts scavenging trips.
I have a 1976 machine with the old version in it, as well as the three agitators that I removed - we'll have to do a photo essay on them sometime.
Mark / John,
I agree with you both - while it would be cool, and almost a clash of cultures to open a really vintage machine and see a DA in there, I think the vintage bakelite models are fine as they are. WP made something like four main bakelite agitators - the straight-vane (6 vane), the Surgilator, the standard Roto-Swirl, and the Super-Roto Swirl. Did I forget any? We should do a video study on which one works best? The 6-vane would win for splashiest. This is excluding the steroidal straight vane used in the Kenmore 518 and the gargantuan Surgilator in the first WP 18lb models.
I've never really understood putting a DA in a standard capacity WP/KM anyway. Kenmore offered them in models each year from 1976 to 1979, but the auger had to be shortened for the lid to close, and much of that auger doesn't get submerged. I don't think this agitator addressed a need as much as the large capacity version did. There aren't very many around, and I am lucky to have a 1976 with the loud agitator, and a '79 as well.
I agree with you both - while it would be cool, and almost a clash of cultures to open a really vintage machine and see a DA in there, I think the vintage bakelite models are fine as they are. WP made something like four main bakelite agitators - the straight-vane (6 vane), the Surgilator, the standard Roto-Swirl, and the Super-Roto Swirl. Did I forget any? We should do a video study on which one works best? The 6-vane would win for splashiest. This is excluding the steroidal straight vane used in the Kenmore 518 and the gargantuan Surgilator in the first WP 18lb models.
I've never really understood putting a DA in a standard capacity WP/KM anyway. Kenmore offered them in models each year from 1976 to 1979, but the auger had to be shortened for the lid to close, and much of that auger doesn't get submerged. I don't think this agitator addressed a need as much as the large capacity version did. There aren't very many around, and I am lucky to have a 1976 with the loud agitator, and a '79 as well.
redcarpetdrew
Well-known member
Was the Super Surgilator with the wings purely a plastic agitator?
RCD
RCD
Used to have one of those KN Bd DA agitator washers with the Ratchet action instead of the dogs-made a sound like a ratchet wrench as it worked.It did work well.
Thats a very nice belt drive...
They were as our friend Jason calls them the agitator of the future, when he first looked at one in Sears, in the late 1970's. That said,.. the previous PentaVanes and PentaSwirls, provided a decent wash, with less moving parts. I think the real irony is that when the patent expired and Maytag started using the "LoadSensor", it really did improve the Maytag's. While the PentaVanes/swirls did not have the turnover of the DAA. they were more than adequate for their time, they were much easier to UNload. I have always said when our family went from a Std tub Tag, to a Kenmore Lg cap. with a PentaVane the capacity of the Kenmore was amazing for the 1970's. alr
They were as our friend Jason calls them the agitator of the future, when he first looked at one in Sears, in the late 1970's. That said,.. the previous PentaVanes and PentaSwirls, provided a decent wash, with less moving parts. I think the real irony is that when the patent expired and Maytag started using the "LoadSensor", it really did improve the Maytag's. While the PentaVanes/swirls did not have the turnover of the DAA. they were more than adequate for their time, they were much easier to UNload. I have always said when our family went from a Std tub Tag, to a Kenmore Lg cap. with a PentaVane the capacity of the Kenmore was amazing for the 1970's. alr
Andy -
The only WP/KM BD agitator that comes to mind having metal parts in it other than the original DA is the Vari-Flex, which also has a metal spring.
The Double-Duty Surgilator to my knowledge doesn't have any metal parts either in-molded or added as an assembly, and it is a one-piece agitator like the rest. To be very knit-picky, most of the single piece agitators aren't truly one piece designs, as many had separately molded transparent snap-in rings underneath, inside near the base of the agitator. I have never been sure why these are there, but they seem to be anchored at and cover up molding injection points which are sometimes called sprues or gates in plastics molding. The Penta-Swirl, most later Roto-Swirls, and the Penta-Vanes have these, in fact the Penta-Swirls are notorious for gathering and suspending lots of lint from that snap ring, almost like a mini-clothes line. Just a tid-bit of trivia there...
alr2903 - if I recall, our Moms had the same 1974 Kenmore? You are very correct, their capacity was amazing, and still is I think. Our standard dryer back then would really fill-up if we washed a big load. The Penta-Vane does not mess around, and creates lots of turbulence. Its not quite as refined as the Penta-Swirl perhaps, but it can handle big loads I think a little better.
Gordon
The only WP/KM BD agitator that comes to mind having metal parts in it other than the original DA is the Vari-Flex, which also has a metal spring.
The Double-Duty Surgilator to my knowledge doesn't have any metal parts either in-molded or added as an assembly, and it is a one-piece agitator like the rest. To be very knit-picky, most of the single piece agitators aren't truly one piece designs, as many had separately molded transparent snap-in rings underneath, inside near the base of the agitator. I have never been sure why these are there, but they seem to be anchored at and cover up molding injection points which are sometimes called sprues or gates in plastics molding. The Penta-Swirl, most later Roto-Swirls, and the Penta-Vanes have these, in fact the Penta-Swirls are notorious for gathering and suspending lots of lint from that snap ring, almost like a mini-clothes line. Just a tid-bit of trivia there...
alr2903 - if I recall, our Moms had the same 1974 Kenmore? You are very correct, their capacity was amazing, and still is I think. Our standard dryer back then would really fill-up if we washed a big load. The Penta-Vane does not mess around, and creates lots of turbulence. Its not quite as refined as the Penta-Swirl perhaps, but it can handle big loads I think a little better.
Gordon
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