2012-Conventional top load washers being discontinued?

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Rapunzel, it only seems to be the US machines that Lack the Additional water options.

The Bosch, Miele, LG, Electrolux and Whirlpool machines in Europe/AU all have sensitive options that either increase the number of rinses or increase the water level.

I dont know why the US doesnt adjust the legislation to increase the flexibility to give people the choice. The issue seems to be that US consumers are seen as being dumb and the machines are configured to keep the options as close to what they had on a TL machine.

I've had no rinse issues with 3 low level rinses on my Miele and have found two rinses with the auto rinse control (Which can fill 1/3 of the way up the glass if needed) does a great job.

Its all what you get used to. I've been front load only for 5 years after a lifetime of Topload machines and I'd never go back, but that has been my experience with a flexible good quality machine. With the right machine and an open mind, people could be pleasantly surprised.
 
'The issue seems to be that US consumers are seen as bei

and the machines are configured to keep the options as close to what they had on a TL machine.'

I don't necessarily think that this has to do with anyone assuming that US consumers are dumb(er) than average, because they are not. It is my guess that manufacturers, especially foreign ones, want to make sure that their products find appeal with American consumers. Everyone wants to sell their stuff in the States and competition is fierce there.

Hi Brisnat,

Okay now, my point is this - why not design machines that wash and rinse clothes properly without the need for add-on options and other gimmicks? Appliances that do not go into landfill after only half a dozen years or so? Yeah, I know, I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

My preferences are different to yours and I would not be satisfied with the three low level rinses. Then again, there are lots of other things about front loaders that I would not be satisfied with. I know them well and don't want to get used to these machines again. I want clean, well-rinsed clothes from a machine that satisfies my expectations and meets my needs.

Appliances fascinate me and I (sometimes) love doing laundry, but I do this for eight (nine from Saturday) people. It isn't only about watching the agitator swish clothes around and make a suds cake. I also have to iron, fold and put away everything. The scope of this task takes on another meaning when you have more than one or two people to do this for.

I have no time for gimmicks, know what gets my clothes clean and want this done qickly, efficiently and with the level of flexibility and convenience that only a traditional top loader can offer. I want plenty of water and, when I do the washing, I am in control, not the machine. No mucking around here.

Thats all for now - take care

Olav
 
Well this is just my opinion but........

I think we should shoot everyone, and let the Lord sortem out!
LOL Sorry guy's, it was getting way too serious for my liking.
Thought we could use a little humour. My bad?
David
 
US consumers aren't dumb, but...

we've certainly been taken for fools, being led to believe that "government regulations" require manufacturers to make water-sipping, tepid-water-washing front-loaders. They're actually doing it for the tax credits. If we all knew this, maybe we'd insist on better front-loaders.

Top-loaders, on the other hand, use enough water and energy to actually be pinched by the current and upcoming mandatory federal standard for clothes washers.
 
I recently finished service training on the new direct drive replacement washer.

I WILL NOT//CANNOT GO INTO TOO MUCH DETAIL SINCE THIS PRODUCT HAS NOT BEEN INTRODUCED OR EVEN HAD ANYTHING WRITTEN ABOUT IT YET.

It looks like they will mostly be HE top loaders made in the USA for the "premium brands." Look for the value brands to remain DD for the next year or so as well.

And NO, it's not based on anything epednableday arecay (in other words not an older DC Maytag).
 
My thoughts...

1. I am all for freedom of choice. If I want a top loader I should be able to buy one. The government should not decide that for me.

2. Water is an issue. Years back during a drought year here in California we could not do laundry at home. We were on water meters and had to save every ounce of water just for showers. We had to go to the laundromat. Rates would double and triple if we went over.

3. The rainy season is almost over here and the reservoirs should be full by now. They are NOT!

4. California needs to build more reservoirs so we would not have this problem. The growth in population has already happened here and we are not going back.

5. Some of these top loaders are just too stingy on the water for me. There needs to be some happy compromise on water levels.
 
2. Water is an issue. Years back during a drought year here in California we could not do laundry at home. We were on water meters and had to save every ounce of water just for showers. We had to go to the laundromat. Rates would double and triple if we went over.

WOW! That's just crazy!

We went through a drought here ONCE.....It was blazing hot and I don't we had any measurable rain for a month and a half...For here that's a LONG time to go without rain. I know parts of California will go months without rain and that's normal. Unfortunately they had years of drought. I heard reports on TWC that the you guys had drought busting rains this winter. I'm surprised the reservoirs are still low.
 
TLHA!!!

I'd never get tired to shout it... BLAST! It would be so EASY, either for US market alwasy gone against this kind of machine...

Until the last breath..... TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS TOP LOADING HORINTAL AXIS ...........................

Hurry-up manufacturers thoug to make those dusty projects coming out from the drawer and get to US brothers the washing machine they've been waitinh for almost fifty years! The top loading convenience TOGETHER with the horizontal axis efficiency... And if only the critic point of this product were the drum flaps, well they last fifty years to get them better and better... what else you'r waiting for?

DIOMEDE

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ignis+carica+dall'alto+&aq=f
 
STABER patent = no other horizontal axis TL in the US

heyla Diomede,
never heard about it, neh ? ;)

Guess that WP and E'lux are waiting this patent expires.

Not a case Bosch/Siemens and Whirlpool dishwashers with cutlery rack have been released after the Miele patent has expired

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staber_Industries
 
Guess that WP and E'lux are waiting this patent expires.

Carlo, me too!!!

Staber is the neverending story of the yourself fixable machine.... never heard this either?
 
TOP LOADING HORIZONTAL AXIS

I and many other consumers don't want or need a top loading horizontal axis washer - what part of that rational do you find so difficult to understand Diomede? There is no demand for them, because our vertical axis washers fill that demand. Our laundry culture isn't European and most people here in Australia want a regular top loader. Not having European top loaders here isn't impeding our quality of life or the cleanliness of our laundry.

Olav
 
Patents

Why would E'lux be waiting for patent expiry on horizontal axis technology? They own the patent, already make the machines for the Eruopean market and could easily export them to North America and Oceania if they really wanted to.
 
"already make the machines for the European market "

OMG.... didn't know !! ;)

Whirlpool, Electrolux, BSH, Miele, Indesit, Fagor-Brandt, Candy Group started producing horizontal axis toploaders many years before Staber got the ***US*** patent (1994)

Olav, the fact you feel comfortable with a a vertical axis toploader doesn't imply that everybody else has your very same mindset. If some people appreciate Fisher & Paykel toploader dryer convenience, I guess that very same people would appreciate more a HA toploader rather than a frontloader

Anyway horizontal axis toploaders are almost a niche product (I'm sorry Diomede, but that's true....)
In France they are quite common 50% FL - 50% TL , less common in the rest of mainland europe, round 75% FL - 25% TL, rare in IE-UK
 
Anyway horizontal axis toploaders are almost a niche product

Their compactness makes them very popular in Germany and France, even if they are a niche product everywhere else in Europe. On that note, here in Australia and over the other side of the Pacific that would make them an even bigger niche product, to the point that there is no point in importing them on a grand scale.

You are rigth favorit, not everybody has my mindset, but I can assure you that here in Oz the vast majority of consumers, who prefer top loaders, do. We already have large capacity vertical axis HE top loaders, that are almost as water efficient as their horizontal axis equivalent.

Do they actually sell 7 to 10 kilo capacity top loaders in Europe and how many different models do they offer?

Olav
 
As One Sees Things

Regarding top loading H-Axis washing machines, do not think they would sell very well in the United States, and one says this after using the things countless times in France.

Once you start to go above the "small" capacity of most European TL-H-Axis washers you start to bump up against stability and design problems. For all the size of the Staber washing machine, even Consumer Reports (yeas, I know), took points off because it was almost as big as a standard top loader, but lacked same capacity.

To begin to hold 121bs-18lbs of wash, one is going to have to move to perhaps the side opening "front loaders" that look like long troughs, think the F&P top loading dryer. However H-Axis washers of this variety do not have very high extraction levels, so the savings to come from less time in the dryer might not satisfy "Energy Star".
 
Yeah, it's that rinsing in cold thing, that bugs me in the winter time. If one is using an electric dryer would the warm water rinse cost more or less than an electric dryer to raise the temp of the clothes to lets say 100 deg F. I know with a gas dryer it does not make the auto/towels run any longer, but an electric dryer? hmmm. alr2903
 
Let's face facts, americans for the most part want to wash clothes as quick as they can, even if we have to pretreat,bleach and soak, so what! I just think it is one of those things that is ingrained in our minds. If beating your clothes on a rock is what a FL machine simulates?..and agitator machines are bad...OK!!!
 
Sorry, my rant was not what this post was about.Forgive me, FL washers we have always had. The vast majority of folks in the usa have had TL agitator machines.

Funny how front load washers way back in the 50's were mediocre cleamers compared to agitator designs of the day. Now they are the bees knees! I know lower water levels and low sudsing detergent accounts for their big deal now. It took how long for this revelation to happen. What a joke!
 
Launderess

From what you wrote you have used a old toploader with a 40/42 litre drum.

Latest ones have drums as big (Miele and Fagor-Brandt 48 litres) if not bigger (52 litres Candy Group) than your Miele.
The biggest one is the V-Zug Unimatic with a round 65 litres drum (7 kg)

As for spin speed all brands spin up to 1200 rpm, Mieles up to 1400, AEG up to 1500 rpm

That said, it's true that you're used to big volume machines, but also have to say that most of the You Tube video show american fontloaders half loaded or however underloaded, always loaded as if they were dryers

http://www.miele.fr/fr/electromenager/produits/1135_11648.htm
 
Speaking of Electrolux: why don't they introduce the Wat

Perhaps they want to see how well it is received with Australian consumers and iron out any systemic bugs first. They may even consider re-designing the exterior as well, to appeal to the American aesthetic.
 
Issue is which way to make people conserve

The reason why the TL are going away is so that the govt can force people to conserve. The choices are out there but people wont choose anything that is not easy. Ex all water heaters should be centrally located within a few feet of laundry and kitchen area...but mega houses cannot do this. Issue, I catch all water coming out of my faucet that is cold until it gets hot to use in other applications. FEW people do this. I would rather put it in my washer. People waste gallons of water daily waiting for it to get HOT.

Speaking of Atlanta...it drives me crazy. Most bars and restaurants now how the no water flush urinals...I love em. People who purposely go the the stall to stand up and pee...waste water...use the damn urinals.

Thank YOu.
 
COLD WATER RINSE IN THE WINTER

Heating a whole tub of rinse water 16-25 gallons from 40F to say 90F uses far more energy than the dryer heating the maybe 1 gallon of water left in the clothes load no matter if you have a gas or electric water heater or gas or electric dryer. If you have free solar hot water that may be a different matter. Modern gas and electric dryers dry clothes @ about the same speed I even know of some gas dryers where the electric counterpart is faster such as the MT HOH and the WP 24" thin twins.
 
I sincerely hope that we will always have a choice of front loaders AND top loaders. There is no need for some government bureaucrat to tell me how to do laundry.

Ross
 
The biggest one is the V-Zug Unimatic with a round 65 litres

Appunto!

Many FL have reached and went forward 10-11Kg of laundry... and they're horizontal axis machines... why can't we open the drum from above???? That's the point!!

EuroTL are beeing taken the advantage of the space but there are many other features (well guys, it would be the project, the launch, the marketing of the coming products to improve them!!!) in a TLHA apart from the possibility to have a narrow (and sad to say but REALLY ugly!!) machine.

People of America, are you called to save water doing your laundry with a traditional vertical axis agitating (Maytag?) machine? Why rotating your drum in horizontal position due to the less water used with this system you MUST open it by a front (horrible!) porthole whether you STILL CAN open it from above!? Why can't be JUST the drum to be rotated and the beautiful case of your washing machines IS THE SAME?!

American thoughts... the problem is the drum? JUST ROTATE IT! That's all...
 
Lennox sang : "Don't mess with the missionary maaaaa

Diomede,

..... sometimes you seem like those preachers who try to convert people to their religion LOL

Toploaders, whatever axis orientation they have, aren't stackable.
Frontloaders allow different layouts : side by side, stacked, raised on pedestals.

Anyway several american laundries already use (since a century) *side loaders* that are a sort of gigantic residential h axis toploader that opens sideway.

Check "new washer installed" thread on superforum ... that one is really huge :)

Oppss I know, you hate this brand ;) LOL :

favorit++3-24-2010-15-31-43.jpg
 
Top loader water usage

Maybe the washer manufactures should look into bring back the suds saver option. I have always used a suds saver washer until I had to replace my last washer now I save the water and put it back in the washer with a bucket. I do have two washer with suds savers that I need to work on.

David
 
Suds saver

The federal test procedures still have provision for suds saver. Out-of-context excerpt:

For clothes washers equipped with the suds-saver feature:
X1=frequency of use without the suds-saver feature=0.86.
X2=frequency of use with the suds-saver feature=0.14.
ShH=fresh make-up water measured during suds-return cycle at maximum water fill level.
ShL=fresh hot make-up water measured during suds-return cycle at minimum water fill level.
 

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