For sand yes... i mean, the bottom... but the lower part of the walls is better to use "slots" or curved cones.
2018 Speed Queen topload models
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2018 SQ Top Load Washers
Bigger holes in the bottom of the tub diffidently improve performance in terms of getting rid of heavy sediment, but can be a mixed blessing as things like bobby pins can get through if they are too large.
When GE came out with the replacement for the FF washers they had huge holes in the bottom of the plastic wash basket, and compared to the FF spin drain [ and grit&lint redepositing machines ] these new neutral drain GE washers were a huge improvement, customers loved the fact they finally had lint and streak free clothing [ GE service manuals are full of comments about the problems they had with lint and streaking complaints they had with FF washers ] GE redesigned the hole pattern in their wash baskets in the late 60s to try and cope with this problem [ they ELIMINATED most of the holes the lower half of the basket side wall ] .
The dual action was the biggest improvement in conventional agitator washers in the history of agitator washers, they improved capacity, they improved turn over and best of all reduced clothing wear and damage. It goes without saying that the Load-Sensor agitator in DC MT washers was by far the best and most effective agitator MT ever put in an automatic washer.
Note; Pumkina I will be glad to answer some of your good questions if you put a name in your profile and a year you were born.
John L.
Bigger holes in the bottom of the tub diffidently improve performance in terms of getting rid of heavy sediment, but can be a mixed blessing as things like bobby pins can get through if they are too large.
When GE came out with the replacement for the FF washers they had huge holes in the bottom of the plastic wash basket, and compared to the FF spin drain [ and grit&lint redepositing machines ] these new neutral drain GE washers were a huge improvement, customers loved the fact they finally had lint and streak free clothing [ GE service manuals are full of comments about the problems they had with lint and streaking complaints they had with FF washers ] GE redesigned the hole pattern in their wash baskets in the late 60s to try and cope with this problem [ they ELIMINATED most of the holes the lower half of the basket side wall ] .
The dual action was the biggest improvement in conventional agitator washers in the history of agitator washers, they improved capacity, they improved turn over and best of all reduced clothing wear and damage. It goes without saying that the Load-Sensor agitator in DC MT washers was by far the best and most effective agitator MT ever put in an automatic washer.
Note; Pumkina I will be glad to answer some of your good questions if you put a name in your profile and a year you were born.
John L.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
speedqueen 2018 topload line
i wonder if the model awn432 will be in the new line or will the controls be all electronics?
i wonder if the model awn432 will be in the new line or will the controls be all electronics?
That is the thing though about turnover. The flex vane they are using now is perfectly fine for turnover. I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree about these machines needing a dual action agitator. I have steady rollover no matter what I wash in the SQ.
The super capacity belt drive Whirlpool washers seemed to do very well with the Surgilator. How much better does turnover need to be ?
The super capacity belt drive Whirlpool washers seemed to do very well with the Surgilator. How much better does turnover need to be ?
My understanding is that these will no longer be allowed to deep fill, so a dual action agi will not work. From all that I have heard is that these will be some type of impeller.
I don't know what agitators SQ uses in their commercial machines, but Id imagine that a DA agi would be much more trouble prone in a commercial environment where overloading is the norm.
@Combo: The very first GEs after the FF did not have full sized holes in the tub, at least the large capacity machines. It was not until a few years latter they put giant holes at the bottom of the basket.
I don't know what agitators SQ uses in their commercial machines, but Id imagine that a DA agi would be much more trouble prone in a commercial environment where overloading is the norm.
@Combo: The very first GEs after the FF did not have full sized holes in the tub, at least the large capacity machines. It was not until a few years latter they put giant holes at the bottom of the basket.
I thought I read in Speed Queen's FAQ section that only the Normal Eco cycle would not provide a complete fill beginning in 2018. My 2017 Series 9 fills completely for the wash in all cycles, including Normal Eco (albeit that cycle has, for all intents and purposes, a cold fill no matter what temp is selected by the user).
The current agitator does a fine job, but rollover is hampered significantly by the indexing of the tub. Mine indexes nearly a quarter-turn on a full load. The load immediately rolls over much more efficiently when I grab the tub to prevent indexing. Some here claim this happens while the tub brake is being 'broken in', but over two month later, mine is still indexing like crazy. In fact, it indexes as much as a 1970s Westinghouse, which was designed to do so.
The AWN542 I had a few years ago indexed a bit less than one-eighth of a turn, which was not enough to negatively affect rollover.
The current agitator does a fine job, but rollover is hampered significantly by the indexing of the tub. Mine indexes nearly a quarter-turn on a full load. The load immediately rolls over much more efficiently when I grab the tub to prevent indexing. Some here claim this happens while the tub brake is being 'broken in', but over two month later, mine is still indexing like crazy. In fact, it indexes as much as a 1970s Westinghouse, which was designed to do so.
The AWN542 I had a few years ago indexed a bit less than one-eighth of a turn, which was not enough to negatively affect rollover.
2018 SQ Top Load Washers
Hi Chet, I really dough that SQ TL washers will go to an impeller, But who knows, want to make a bet ?
I am not certain when GE went to the very large holes in the bottom of the plastic wash tub, but I have one [ super capacity dual action agitator ] now in the shop that we are restoring for the museum that has them, I guess you are correct if you think they did not have them at first, why don't you try to find out when they made this change and why? I never remember seeing an early one with small holes and we were putting transmissions in the early T models left and right, GE was giving out transmissions to anyone that would install them for the first 7 years of washer ownership.
I know they reverted to smaller holes because of pump clogging problems because the large holes allowed too much heavy sediment to settle into the tub drain hose and clog the drain pump.
Duel action agitators greatly improve turn over of large loads and therefore allow more laundry to be washed and increase water efficiency, CRs even called them the biggest advance in top loading washers in over 25 years in the early 80s.
No I have never seen them in commercial TL washers because they are so effective that manufactures do not want to encourage overloading and they are one additional thing that can wear out. [ top load washers are pretty much dead in commercial use now anyway ]
I can and almost always wash 10-12 pairs of my work jeans [ size 32W 34-36 I ] in a WP SC DD washer, A SQ will barely turn over this load and when I have tried loads like this you can see that some of the jeans are visibly beat up from the agitator and a standard large capacity MT [ well I won't go there ]
John L.
Hi Chet, I really dough that SQ TL washers will go to an impeller, But who knows, want to make a bet ?
I am not certain when GE went to the very large holes in the bottom of the plastic wash tub, but I have one [ super capacity dual action agitator ] now in the shop that we are restoring for the museum that has them, I guess you are correct if you think they did not have them at first, why don't you try to find out when they made this change and why? I never remember seeing an early one with small holes and we were putting transmissions in the early T models left and right, GE was giving out transmissions to anyone that would install them for the first 7 years of washer ownership.
I know they reverted to smaller holes because of pump clogging problems because the large holes allowed too much heavy sediment to settle into the tub drain hose and clog the drain pump.
Duel action agitators greatly improve turn over of large loads and therefore allow more laundry to be washed and increase water efficiency, CRs even called them the biggest advance in top loading washers in over 25 years in the early 80s.
No I have never seen them in commercial TL washers because they are so effective that manufactures do not want to encourage overloading and they are one additional thing that can wear out. [ top load washers are pretty much dead in commercial use now anyway ]
I can and almost always wash 10-12 pairs of my work jeans [ size 32W 34-36 I ] in a WP SC DD washer, A SQ will barely turn over this load and when I have tried loads like this you can see that some of the jeans are visibly beat up from the agitator and a standard large capacity MT [ well I won't go there ]
John L.
What will the water usage be? I was under the impression that the 2018 regs basically force about the same water usage as a front loader- hence my bet on an impeller- but honestly its just a guess.
The models that I know have the same holes are 1998-1999 large cap machines. Its possible the small holes came latter (ie after 1997) but I am not sure.
As the pumps on GE washers those were a joke, along with the rectangular drain tube. Saw maintenance moan and groan about slow pump out.
The DA DD certainly holds more, thats for sure. In my current Queen I find myself running an extra load as apposed to my old Whirlpool built Maytag. FWIW one reason I left it behind was water leaking out during the delicate cycle. Often in the first drain the washer would shift directly into spin causing water to leak out onto the basement floor.
The models that I know have the same holes are 1998-1999 large cap machines. Its possible the small holes came latter (ie after 1997) but I am not sure.
As the pumps on GE washers those were a joke, along with the rectangular drain tube. Saw maintenance moan and groan about slow pump out.
The DA DD certainly holds more, thats for sure. In my current Queen I find myself running an extra load as apposed to my old Whirlpool built Maytag. FWIW one reason I left it behind was water leaking out during the delicate cycle. Often in the first drain the washer would shift directly into spin causing water to leak out onto the basement floor.
That is the problem with DAA. They encourage overloading and forcing the laundry down to the bottom vanes. I'm not saying a dual action isn't better all I am saying is it is not needed in these machines with a shallower and wider basket. The current agitators are fine.
mrb627
Well-known member
New Agitator
I believe this is the new agitator coming in 2018.
Malcolm
I believe this is the new agitator coming in 2018.
Malcolm
New Agitator
Cool Malcolm, well it looks like the clunky old transmission is gone, I would guess that the machine will operate more like a GE hydro-wave now.
Anyone that wants one of the old style SQ TLers better get off your ass and buy it fast.
We were warned a few months ago that the current TL washers were going to be in short supply toward the end of the year.
John L.
Cool Malcolm, well it looks like the clunky old transmission is gone, I would guess that the machine will operate more like a GE hydro-wave now.
Anyone that wants one of the old style SQ TLers better get off your ass and buy it fast.
We were warned a few months ago that the current TL washers were going to be in short supply toward the end of the year.
John L.
Verry interesting
But apparently no dispensers.
Appears these machine become more and more of a compromise. Don't think they'll get another redesign before a complete new machine base will be developed.
But apparently no dispensers.
Appears these machine become more and more of a compromise. Don't think they'll get another redesign before a complete new machine base will be developed.
mrb627
Well-known member
Wonder...
If the new agitator and current agitator would fit the same drive bell.
Might be able to swap the new for a wavy vane.
I want to say that the mechanical timer model is gone at the end of the year, too.
Yeah, it might be time to buy a 2017 model, if the changes are too dramatic. Watching and waiting at this point.
Malcolm
If the new agitator and current agitator would fit the same drive bell.
Might be able to swap the new for a wavy vane.
I want to say that the mechanical timer model is gone at the end of the year, too.
Yeah, it might be time to buy a 2017 model, if the changes are too dramatic. Watching and waiting at this point.
Malcolm
I am going to hedge my bet and say "Glad I got a 2017!" It may, indeed, be the last of the true vintage-style washers, for better or worse.
Having said that, I'm definitely curious as to what changes are afoot.
Thanks for the photo of what may be the new agitator, Malcolm. John, we wait with baited breath for your return from the SQ service sessions.
Having said that, I'm definitely curious as to what changes are afoot.
Thanks for the photo of what may be the new agitator, Malcolm. John, we wait with baited breath for your return from the SQ service sessions.
Can't help but wonder if that is indeed the new agitator,...how low will the water levels be? Unless it rotates 360 like a pulsator . All just speculation , but it has me curious now more than ever. Another thing, will they still call these new machines "commercial Heavy Duty ? Time will tell.
2018 washers
I just bought my 432 and matching dryer a couple of weeks ago; my old Kenmore dryer died after 18 years and I replaced the crappy Frigidaire FL at the same time. I'd have looked at the FL Speed Queen but I didn't want to spend the extra money for it,and I've been happy 20+ years ago with top loaders.
I looked through all the SQ FAQ's when I was researching before buying, and they were saying the mech timer would be gone in 2018 because it could no longer accommodate the new governmental demands. My local dealer said they will all have the electronic panel. I'm still unsure whether I should've bought the 432 over the electronic model. This one came with a 3-year warranty, the electronic panel model comes with a 5-year. And it cost only $20 more. But--the crappy Frigidaire FL that I just ditched gave trouble with the electronic panel for the 4 years I owned it. Maybe the SQ panel is indeed that much better.
Let's face it: the day is coming when all our machines are going to be front load just like most of the rest of the world. It's the most energy efficient and the most water efficient. The problem today is that most of them are built so poorly. Speed Queen will have a bright future if they concentrate on durability and quality and leave the silly gimmicks to others.
I just bought my 432 and matching dryer a couple of weeks ago; my old Kenmore dryer died after 18 years and I replaced the crappy Frigidaire FL at the same time. I'd have looked at the FL Speed Queen but I didn't want to spend the extra money for it,and I've been happy 20+ years ago with top loaders.
I looked through all the SQ FAQ's when I was researching before buying, and they were saying the mech timer would be gone in 2018 because it could no longer accommodate the new governmental demands. My local dealer said they will all have the electronic panel. I'm still unsure whether I should've bought the 432 over the electronic model. This one came with a 3-year warranty, the electronic panel model comes with a 5-year. And it cost only $20 more. But--the crappy Frigidaire FL that I just ditched gave trouble with the electronic panel for the 4 years I owned it. Maybe the SQ panel is indeed that much better.
Let's face it: the day is coming when all our machines are going to be front load just like most of the rest of the world. It's the most energy efficient and the most water efficient. The problem today is that most of them are built so poorly. Speed Queen will have a bright future if they concentrate on durability and quality and leave the silly gimmicks to others.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
This has zero chance of happening
but I dream of Speed Queen really embracing top loader tradition, and bringing back the suds saver. I can even imagine the extra button on the touch panel: "Reuse Wash Water" or something like that.
While I dream the impossible dream, I might as well add the dream for old time colors. I'm so tired of current appliance colors, and yearn for, say, a bright, sunny yellow.
but I dream of Speed Queen really embracing top loader tradition, and bringing back the suds saver. I can even imagine the extra button on the touch panel: "Reuse Wash Water" or something like that.
While I dream the impossible dream, I might as well add the dream for old time colors. I'm so tired of current appliance colors, and yearn for, say, a bright, sunny yellow.
If I could improve my washer I would wish for a good lint filtering system, some loads that I don't separate fabrics.....oh my goodness. I bought a brush to sweep off the extra lint, still line dry most loads. I hate, hate, washing only 2 or 3 items because of the water usage so I save them till I have a load ready.
Also, a longer spray rinse between the wash and rinse cycle would go a long way in avoiding a 2nd rinse. A load of towels always takes two rinses, sometimes 3 depending on the detergent.
I purchased a 432 model a couple of years ago. I still feel the pro's still outweigh the cons on this washer. A friend of ours bought one also, and it tore up her delicates something awful, I looked at her bras and it looked to be the agitator catching the bra straps between the base and the vanes of the agitator. I recommended to buy a wash bag and put them in there, she's had no problems since. It tore up some of her nice clothes and I felt bad that I recommend the machine to her. Needless to say her feelings toward Speed Queen differ from mine. The new agitator may solve the problem.
I'm not a fan of neutral drains, feel that they pulled the dirty and soapy water down through the clothes, hence the necessary spray rinses.
All in all, its a good machine, though it can be expensive to operate as I experienced with my Dad's illness this summer.
Also, a longer spray rinse between the wash and rinse cycle would go a long way in avoiding a 2nd rinse. A load of towels always takes two rinses, sometimes 3 depending on the detergent.
I purchased a 432 model a couple of years ago. I still feel the pro's still outweigh the cons on this washer. A friend of ours bought one also, and it tore up her delicates something awful, I looked at her bras and it looked to be the agitator catching the bra straps between the base and the vanes of the agitator. I recommended to buy a wash bag and put them in there, she's had no problems since. It tore up some of her nice clothes and I felt bad that I recommend the machine to her. Needless to say her feelings toward Speed Queen differ from mine. The new agitator may solve the problem.
I'm not a fan of neutral drains, feel that they pulled the dirty and soapy water down through the clothes, hence the necessary spray rinses.
All in all, its a good machine, though it can be expensive to operate as I experienced with my Dad's illness this summer.
