Gordon, yes it was the cone shaped filter. It was sort of opaque as I recall. I remember questioning the guy at the parts counter when he handed me the new and improved replacement filter and he showed me how the fittings for the hoses were in exactly the same place. It really was a drastic change in design from the filter I removed (which had failed probably inside of five years), and it proved itself to be far superior to the original.
70's Kenmore Suds model
- Thread starter akronman
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mickeyd
Well-known member
The Dead Zone
Many reports from members about activating dead spots on their timers, usually agitation in the area that would have said "Suds." But this is a brave new world on your machine with a dead zone in the Extra Rinse spot. Even though you haven't wired anything yet, it might be cool to see if there is any action there, especially if you explore the space with a satisfied water level* in the tub before you venture out. So exciting. Of course there may be nothing there at all, but it 's worth a try.
* On my 77 WP, the dead zone works only if there is enough water in the tub for a LO level wash. If I go there dry, I get nothing. The 63 LK agitates in the dead zone with or without water which I love because it gives a 4 minute wash followed by an infinite soak in as little water as I want.
So try it wet and dry, Buddy, and let us know. Thanks. Better than Star Trek's : "Going boldly where only washermen dare."
Many reports from members about activating dead spots on their timers, usually agitation in the area that would have said "Suds." But this is a brave new world on your machine with a dead zone in the Extra Rinse spot. Even though you haven't wired anything yet, it might be cool to see if there is any action there, especially if you explore the space with a satisfied water level* in the tub before you venture out. So exciting. Of course there may be nothing there at all, but it 's worth a try.
* On my 77 WP, the dead zone works only if there is enough water in the tub for a LO level wash. If I go there dry, I get nothing. The 63 LK agitates in the dead zone with or without water which I love because it gives a 4 minute wash followed by an infinite soak in as little water as I want.
So try it wet and dry, Buddy, and let us know. Thanks. Better than Star Trek's : "Going boldly where only washermen dare."
Outer Tub Side Mounted Self-Cleaning Lint Filter
This was the last true [ plumbed in ] self-cleaning filter design that was used on WP built BD KMs and WP models. It was also the first SCF that WP built washers used that was the exactly the same on both KM and WP badged machines.
The first ever SCLFs appeared on the 1958 LKMs, this filter was used through 1963 on LKMS and by 63 had made it way down into the KM line-up of models to at least the 70 series. This aluminum bodied filter filled with glass marbles was replaced in 1964 with a nylon bodied filter with black rubber like balls in it. then a 2nd version of this filter was used that just had a different hose port orientation. Then around 1970 the KM washers got a new cheaper to build filter that continued to work well but had serious problems with the flexible plastic hinge area splitting and causing really BIG leaks.
Backing up a little WP introduced their first SCLF on their 1964 Imperial Mark 12 washers, this filter was completely different that the orignal KM filter with the little balls in it. Instead it was a maze type filter that used a rubber membrane that flexed when back washed to release the lint and allow it to be flushed down the drain. WP also replaced this filter with a cheaper to build filter around 1970 and even though this 2nd generation WP only filter would sometimes fail and clog it never had the flooding problems that the KM filters experienced.
To solve the huge problem that KM washers had with their 2nd generation filters causing floods, WP built a modified version of the very successful 1st generation WP filter to fit all the KM washers that were originally built with this troublesome filter.
WP went on to introduce nylon bodied filter designed after their orignal SCF design around 1972 that was part of the pump protector and molded directly on the bottom of the pump protector [ Sears often called the pump protector a Pin Trap ].
At some point in the 1970s the new side mounted SCFs appeared and both WP and KM used the same one for the first time.
Interesting points to keep in mind.
All of these SCFs were highly effective and were superior to any other filtering system used on any other TL automatics built in the US.
All these WP built SCFs had moving parts.
The main reason these great filters were discontinued was the advent of phosphate-free detergents which if not used in sufficient quantities caused mineral build-ups in the washers water system the rendered the SCF ineffective and lead to clogged filters and service calls. They were also discontinued because of the cost of building and other manufactures were getting away with cheap to build filters that didn't do much of anything [ MT, GE, HP, Norge, SQ, and Frigidaire ] to name the major ones.
The basket mounted filters that WP changed to for most of the last BD washers in the 1980s [ which had no moving parts ] could be somewhat effective, but since the washer did not have to drain through these new cheaper-to-build-filters it no longer mattered if people clogged them with minerals with bad washing pratices, the washer would still go on at least functioning.
John L.
This was the last true [ plumbed in ] self-cleaning filter design that was used on WP built BD KMs and WP models. It was also the first SCF that WP built washers used that was the exactly the same on both KM and WP badged machines.
The first ever SCLFs appeared on the 1958 LKMs, this filter was used through 1963 on LKMS and by 63 had made it way down into the KM line-up of models to at least the 70 series. This aluminum bodied filter filled with glass marbles was replaced in 1964 with a nylon bodied filter with black rubber like balls in it. then a 2nd version of this filter was used that just had a different hose port orientation. Then around 1970 the KM washers got a new cheaper to build filter that continued to work well but had serious problems with the flexible plastic hinge area splitting and causing really BIG leaks.
Backing up a little WP introduced their first SCLF on their 1964 Imperial Mark 12 washers, this filter was completely different that the orignal KM filter with the little balls in it. Instead it was a maze type filter that used a rubber membrane that flexed when back washed to release the lint and allow it to be flushed down the drain. WP also replaced this filter with a cheaper to build filter around 1970 and even though this 2nd generation WP only filter would sometimes fail and clog it never had the flooding problems that the KM filters experienced.
To solve the huge problem that KM washers had with their 2nd generation filters causing floods, WP built a modified version of the very successful 1st generation WP filter to fit all the KM washers that were originally built with this troublesome filter.
WP went on to introduce nylon bodied filter designed after their orignal SCF design around 1972 that was part of the pump protector and molded directly on the bottom of the pump protector [ Sears often called the pump protector a Pin Trap ].
At some point in the 1970s the new side mounted SCFs appeared and both WP and KM used the same one for the first time.
Interesting points to keep in mind.
All of these SCFs were highly effective and were superior to any other filtering system used on any other TL automatics built in the US.
All these WP built SCFs had moving parts.
The main reason these great filters were discontinued was the advent of phosphate-free detergents which if not used in sufficient quantities caused mineral build-ups in the washers water system the rendered the SCF ineffective and lead to clogged filters and service calls. They were also discontinued because of the cost of building and other manufactures were getting away with cheap to build filters that didn't do much of anything [ MT, GE, HP, Norge, SQ, and Frigidaire ] to name the major ones.
The basket mounted filters that WP changed to for most of the last BD washers in the 1980s [ which had no moving parts ] could be somewhat effective, but since the washer did not have to drain through these new cheaper-to-build-filters it no longer mattered if people clogged them with minerals with bad washing pratices, the washer would still go on at least functioning.
John L.
More
It's still in the garage, but I've done some cleaning and gotten pics of the wiring diagram. I will get the washer into the house this weekend and check out lots of stuff before ANY remodeling, but wanted to post this now if anyone (named Gordon) wanted to see if they can suggest what timer contacts to use for a switch for the 2nd rinse option. I wont ruin the console, I'll instead install a toggle switch on the back of the console, out of sight.
Patience, it takes a few pics to get the closeups of the diagram. This pic shows dotted lines for options, and shows #31 and T-V. Maybe Contact #31 and some wire color T with V??? stripes???
John---I had the machine on it's side and finally saw the tub-mounted filter. I'll have more questions on that when it's indoors, thanks for the info. I do very much like filtering, but I wonder if I will ignore it if it isn't a chore for each load. I'm kinda used to that chore!
It's still in the garage, but I've done some cleaning and gotten pics of the wiring diagram. I will get the washer into the house this weekend and check out lots of stuff before ANY remodeling, but wanted to post this now if anyone (named Gordon) wanted to see if they can suggest what timer contacts to use for a switch for the 2nd rinse option. I wont ruin the console, I'll instead install a toggle switch on the back of the console, out of sight.
Patience, it takes a few pics to get the closeups of the diagram. This pic shows dotted lines for options, and shows #31 and T-V. Maybe Contact #31 and some wire color T with V??? stripes???
John---I had the machine on it's side and finally saw the tub-mounted filter. I'll have more questions on that when it's indoors, thanks for the info. I do very much like filtering, but I wonder if I will ignore it if it isn't a chore for each load. I'm kinda used to that chore!
timer diagram
Near the N of warNing------
T-V, 2nd Rinse , T B, Cam 2.
t and b mean top and bottom cam followers?
Also, side note, it does spin out after pre-wash, you can see in the picture here. That's why the detergent dispenser would come in handy once in a blue moon. It also kicks in at the start of Delicate and Perma-Press, of course.
Near the N of warNing------
T-V, 2nd Rinse , T B, Cam 2.
t and b mean top and bottom cam followers?
Also, side note, it does spin out after pre-wash, you can see in the picture here. That's why the detergent dispenser would come in handy once in a blue moon. It also kicks in at the start of Delicate and Perma-Press, of course.
more
For the archives.
This is clearly labeled May 1975 on the transmission, and Sept 18,1975 in handwriting on the diagram.
That is THE CLEAREST picture I haev ever taken, no camera bug here.
For the archives.
This is clearly labeled May 1975 on the transmission, and Sept 18,1975 in handwriting on the diagram.
That is THE CLEAREST picture I haev ever taken, no camera bug here.
more
Here's a blurry pic of a wire from the timer, with my favorite washing machine word
Here's a blurry pic of a wire from the timer, with my favorite washing machine word
Timer
Still fully installed. I've gotten into numerous timers before, and can solder and strip/poke/crimp contacts, etc. So I will be turning this into a 2nd Rinse Option machine. The timer ladder diagram shows no spray after the second rinse, so this machine will soon become my terry cloth towel machine with me adding FS during the final fill. Perfect.
It's still in the garage, I am WAY ahead of myself.
Still fully installed. I've gotten into numerous timers before, and can solder and strip/poke/crimp contacts, etc. So I will be turning this into a 2nd Rinse Option machine. The timer ladder diagram shows no spray after the second rinse, so this machine will soon become my terry cloth towel machine with me adding FS during the final fill. Perfect.
It's still in the garage, I am WAY ahead of myself.
detergent dispenser
solenoid plunger assembly under the lid. Sort of over-engineered, ain't it, to do detergent this way? But if there's no recirc pump and waterfall filter, then they lost that way to dispense.
If anyone has a picture of the dispenser, please post, thanks
solenoid plunger assembly under the lid. Sort of over-engineered, ain't it, to do detergent this way? But if there's no recirc pump and waterfall filter, then they lost that way to dispense.
If anyone has a picture of the dispenser, please post, thanks
tub top
I have seen far worse. The snubber assy is firm and it's hard to push the tub around. It makes me wonder if I need to check for problems on my 1960 WP, it's looser for sure, and heavy loads produce a knock while it gets up to speed.
The agitator says PENTAVANE across the top, but to me looks chopped off, a bit. Would the same agitator have had a FS dispenser on top, in other models?
I have seen far worse. The snubber assy is firm and it's hard to push the tub around. It makes me wonder if I need to check for problems on my 1960 WP, it's looser for sure, and heavy loads produce a knock while it gets up to speed.
The agitator says PENTAVANE across the top, but to me looks chopped off, a bit. Would the same agitator have had a FS dispenser on top, in other models?
Mark -
In no certain order:
1) The timer is already set-up for a second rinse as you now know. I would have said before seeing your pictures that I suspect all that is needed is a couple more wires added to the harness to activate the motor run circuit, the wig-wag circuits, the mixing valve, etc. to take the second rinse from dead to functional. BUT, seeing the diagram, it looks now like all you would have to do is install an on/off throw switch in what is now the wire that tells the timer that the second rinse sw says "Off". In other words the machine is now permanently wired with the second rinse off. Just add an "on" switch and the rest should work, at least I'm thinking that.
2) Yes, there aren't usually spray rinses in the second rinse in this era machine. This was not a highly common BD option, so having a machine with a 2nd rinse capable timer without using that feature is somewhat unusual.
3) Pre-wash --- starting in the very late 1960s, Sears sold a great many machines with Pre-wash cycles. They always, at least in belt-drives, drain and a short spin prior to end of cycle. Not nearly as many models had an automatic advance option into the Normal cycle from Pre-Wash / Pre-Soak.
4) Agitator - Yes, this and the other large capacity agitator of the same period, the Penta-Vane, both abruptly end with a wide flat agitator cap. This is how the same transmission (from late 1973 onward) is used in both the large and standard capacity models.....the high water level is relatively MUCH higher up the agitator shaft in the large cap models.
To allow for agitator mounted softener dispensers, an extension is added via a different agitator bolt. This extension allows use of the same softener dispenser that was used in standard tub machines. I surely have a picture somewhere...
I hope this sheds some light.
Gordon
In no certain order:
1) The timer is already set-up for a second rinse as you now know. I would have said before seeing your pictures that I suspect all that is needed is a couple more wires added to the harness to activate the motor run circuit, the wig-wag circuits, the mixing valve, etc. to take the second rinse from dead to functional. BUT, seeing the diagram, it looks now like all you would have to do is install an on/off throw switch in what is now the wire that tells the timer that the second rinse sw says "Off". In other words the machine is now permanently wired with the second rinse off. Just add an "on" switch and the rest should work, at least I'm thinking that.
2) Yes, there aren't usually spray rinses in the second rinse in this era machine. This was not a highly common BD option, so having a machine with a 2nd rinse capable timer without using that feature is somewhat unusual.
3) Pre-wash --- starting in the very late 1960s, Sears sold a great many machines with Pre-wash cycles. They always, at least in belt-drives, drain and a short spin prior to end of cycle. Not nearly as many models had an automatic advance option into the Normal cycle from Pre-Wash / Pre-Soak.
4) Agitator - Yes, this and the other large capacity agitator of the same period, the Penta-Vane, both abruptly end with a wide flat agitator cap. This is how the same transmission (from late 1973 onward) is used in both the large and standard capacity models.....the high water level is relatively MUCH higher up the agitator shaft in the large cap models.
To allow for agitator mounted softener dispensers, an extension is added via a different agitator bolt. This extension allows use of the same softener dispenser that was used in standard tub machines. I surely have a picture somewhere...
I hope this sheds some light.
Gordon
Referencing pic #6, it is a Penta-Swirl.
Pic of Penta-Swirl (top) vs. Penta-Vane (bottom).
I was wrong
It is clearly PENTA SWIRL. I can't wait to get it up and running, but then I will also start a hunt for a dual action agitator
It is clearly PENTA SWIRL. I can't wait to get it up and running, but then I will also start a hunt for a dual action agitator
Mark -
Go to an established used appliance shop, you won't have a hard time finding a DA unless they cleared out their BD parts already. We may have to give you some pics so you know what you're looking for vs. the array of similar looking DAs that fit only DD machines.
Incidentally, the gold Penta-Swirls are quite rare, as they were used only in TWO models, the 1974 70 and the 1975 70 (yours). The only other 74/75 model that used a Penta-Swirl was the 74 Lady K and they were white. In 1976, all the Penta-Swirl models, of which I think there were four or five, all used white ones.
Gordon
Go to an established used appliance shop, you won't have a hard time finding a DA unless they cleared out their BD parts already. We may have to give you some pics so you know what you're looking for vs. the array of similar looking DAs that fit only DD machines.
Incidentally, the gold Penta-Swirls are quite rare, as they were used only in TWO models, the 1974 70 and the 1975 70 (yours). The only other 74/75 model that used a Penta-Swirl was the 74 Lady K and they were white. In 1976, all the Penta-Swirl models, of which I think there were four or five, all used white ones.
Gordon
One neat thing John showed me about suds-saver washers with the self-cleaning filter is that the filter does not flush out the lint at the beginning of the wash drain but holds it until the spin begins to keep the wash water from being full of lint. There was a clunk when the suds valve closed and then the filter discharged the lint into the sink through the rinse hose.
this should be the Dual-Action agitator that your looking for.....
although a little pricey....just keep shopping for a better price, just so you have an idea of what to look for....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KENMORE-WAS...048?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ae5c2f48
although a little pricey....just keep shopping for a better price, just so you have an idea of what to look for....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KENMORE-WAS...048?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ae5c2f48
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
this one should fit you machine as well......some kick ass vanes....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WHIRLPOOL-W...347?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab7a4e03
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WHIRLPOOL-W...347?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab7a4e03
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
