70's Kenmore Suds model

[akronman]

Why?????

is it a screw instead of a bolt? STUCK!!! Any ideas? Ir&#92t's been soaking in PB Blaster 2 days, still no luck, vise grips, channel locks, huge screwdrivers, nothing. I'm afraid to torch it due to the plastic agitator.

Sears Parts diagrams show a BOLT, not a screw, and it's on order. But I have one leak to fix, gotta get this thing off.

I scraped away the rubber washer so PB would soak in, I've got a hammer handle stuck in the tranny pulley so it won't move, I've put my sizable weight into it, nothing. And of course the top ridge of the agitator prevents me from any decent grip on it, of course.

This TOL machine DESERVES to be in complete working order, no leaks. It's clearly the tub drain where the "button/pin/catcher" hits the outer tub.

 

[rp2813]

My mom's machine had a big screw like that too.   I can't remember ever attempting to remove it, though.

 

A bolt and a socket or box wrench would make the job easier for sure.

 

[combo52]

Stuck Agitator Screw

WP used screws on many many machines in the 1970s to attach the agitator, yes they can be harder to remove. I have almost always been able to get them loose with a really big screw driver.

In a worst case situation you may have to cut the head off and drill out the rest of the screw and re-tap the agitator shaft or just replace the AS.

A machine of this age should be torn apart anyway, the least this washer probably needs is new center-post seals, new spin tube, rust abatement on the outside of the center-post and of coerce resealing the outer tub.

Good luck and keep us posted, John.

 

[ovrphil]

to think

I knew nothing about this machine, other than it was older looking and maybe something of interest to someone...not to interrupt the thread flow here, but this machine brought way more discussion than I imagined, not to mention that you grabbed this unit at all. Pardon the half talking to myself and you all who bring life and surprises to appliances like this. A SUDS model - whatever that is - glad it was included and not commonly found.

Now, do you plan to disassemble and completely restore or do whatever is needed?

Interesting reading everyone's comments here....even if some is Greek to my ears.

 

[akronman]

Phil

Phil----Thanks for the original CL posting. This washer will be getting a (slow) restoration.

Immediate needs---minor tub leak at main bottom drain, fabric softener dispenser plunger repair, lid hinge repairs. But as I take it apart for that tub leak, I will replace worn parts, check everything, derust, repaint, etc. But it is a wonderfully working machine with a minor leak.

Suds Model----Most manufacturers produced suds models in the early days of automatics, since wringer folks in the 30's to 50's were used to using the same hot soapy water for an entire day's washing. Through the decades, suds saving became less and less popular. I also own a 1979 GE FilterFlo with suds.

Suds Saving---These machines have 2 drain hoses. One goes into a standpipe or tub with no stopper plug, that is for rinse water that goes out and down the drain. The other SUDS hose goes into a plugged laundry tub capable of holding approx 20 gallons. If you choose "Save Suds" button or knob, then the hot soapy wash water goes into this tub for saving. The washer switches to the other drain hose for all rinsing, down the drain. When the entire cycle is over and clean clothes are in the dryer, you reset the suds button to RETURN SUDS. That hot 20 gallons with soap and detergent gets sucked back into the machine for your next load of clothes. It's very economical and "green" use of water and the gas/electric needed to heat it in your tank.

Of course if there's diapers/dog cleanup/oily rags laundry, you don't save the suds. But for sheets, towels, office clothes, etc, it's great. I usually do sheets or towels first in hot, by the time I suck the suds back in it's somewhat cooled to medium and I do PermPress/dress clothes. Or, if you're a hobbyist like me and have numerous suds machines, as soon as that hot water is being saved by the Kenmore, you can suck it into the GE and do another load in still hot sudsy water. It's kind of like Betty Crocker cake with Duncan Hines frosting. Quite sinful, but folks do it.

Again, thanks for all your CL ad finds. I search often(ish) but you seem to have perfected the art! This washer is the extra-large model of its era, pretty near TOL, plenty of dispensers and options, and one nasty stuck screw in that agitator.

 

[mickeyd]

Hey Buddy!

Had high hopes that your baby would go from Suds right to soak, rather than stop and stay off. What a great option for really dirty stuff.  Hopes realized. Great. Thanks.

 

When you get a chance, you busy, busy man, see what's going on in the dead space--with water level satisfied and without, Dying of curiosity to see if anything's there. If my suds intuition was on the mark, maybe the dead zone hunch is too. 

 

Loved your response to Phil, giving him the SUDS 101, and the new image in my head of a SUDS RETURN HOBBYIST; that's one for the books.

 

[ovrphil]

wow.

Mark you're the man - I never expected an explanation that is so complete and fully understandable.

It really brings back a memory, but can't remember...if it was my mom or someone else whose machine would dump all that hot, soapy water (aka suds)into the tub....but now it comes back to me. I LIKE that feature, as I would use it for sheets when you have too many to do in one load. In fact, I would likely fortify the returned amount of soapy water(suds) by adding more hot water, letting some of the soapy stuff go down the drain first and refilling it to the same level with hotter water and if necessary, adding a bit more soap . I know, that counters the "green" idea. Maybe, there's a more convenient interception technique, depending on the machine. I like to mess with cycles, adding more or less water...and using the hot/cold choices (as my Maytag only has two temp choices).

You and others are welcome...just giving back something tangible for the intangible that isn't explainable right now. My wrists and arms are complaining from the hours spent searching, which improved the odds of hitting stuff like this(I still can't get over that this machine was special, but happy that it was!)

It's still a look, listen and decide phase for me...as collecting isn't what I can or should do right now..but I appreciate how you and others will take a machine and clean it up, making it sing and sparkle again, like new.

Thanks again for making the experience here so enjoyable....I'm hungry, after typing this long-winded mess.

PHIL

 

[combo52]

Suds-Saver Operation

Hi Michael, when the suds are returned the washer WILL go directly into the 22 minute soak cycle, then the agitated pre-wash for 4 minutes, then drain and short spin, it will then refill dispense detergent in the dispenser and go through the rest of the normal cycle.

Most users of the Suds-Saver feature stopped the washer after the water was returned and selected the cycle they wanted.

Check out post 50 in this thread for Marks description of this.

Talk to you soon, John.

 

[mickeyd]

Hello,  Old Friend, I think you read my first sentence too fast; we all do that. Here it is, again:

 

<a style="font-family: Times; font-size: medium; font-weight: normal; line-height: 20px;" name="start_52592.752341"></a><span style="font-family: Times; font-size: small;"><span style="font-weight: normal; line-height: 20px;">"</span></span>Had high hopes that your baby would go from Suds right to soak, rather than stop and stay off. What a great option for really dirty stuff.  Hopes realized. Great. Thanks."

 

My high hopes were realized. I knew from the get go that this was the case, but I allowed for another possibility. See Reply #14.

 

You may see me soon because I'm back on the road and in the air again.

 

Any beds at the museum which is where I'd love to stay?

 

[akronman]

Screw

it. That screw won't budge, 2 guys helping me, all the wieght in the world on the various screwdrivers/vise grips/channel locks, nothing.

But more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[akronman]

RTV Sealant

I can't figure why it won't help or work entirely to stick my finger up inside that hole and seal with good blue or red sealant, I can feel everything. Also on the underside of the baseplate, also on top of the baseplate as far as I can reach with a tiny paintbrush. I will also get the dispenser tube with sealant while I am at it. Since I can't get the agitator and inner tub out, I won't touch the tub-mounted filter at all. I believe it works, the appropriate ball of lint spits out once the drain starts.

 

[akronman]

more

I can clean with a rag up inside the hole, let it dry a few days, wire brush the exterior underside of the baseplate flange, etc, then RTV sealant on all surfaces.

 

[akronman]

catalog pic

I believe this shows 2 views of a one piece grommit. The lower right view is exactly upside down, and the flange shown actually sits on the upside of the baseplate, and the tub simply presses against it, held by the tub bolts.. '

The depression between the ridges on the right side of the upper left view are exactly where the tub presses. I can feel all of this perfectly with my finger, so I believe sealant should work, and of course on the underside of the baseplate and top also.

I'd much rather get the agitator and spin tub out, but we even had the washer on it's side, with 2 guys pushing it up against a screwdriver forced against a floor post holding up my living room. Turning the screwdriver with a huge channel locks broke off about a quarter of the top of the screw. I can't imagine using a hand drill and having success drilling the mofo out, so I think this is currently my best bet. ???

 

[akronman]

Cabinet

needs cleanup and Rustoleum for sure

 

[ovrphil]

I'm late in the suggestion department, and maybe this wouldn't work either ...just to mention...I have applied heat , Lockease, let sit, heat again, tap the screw head with a sharp edge flat head screwdriver and direct taps to the head of the screw in the direction that would loosen it (I don't know if that's taps to the left or right, with this screw). The heat, the Lockease, and heat...tap, don't deliver crushing blows should ease it from its seated position.

I just re-read your postings and so - my idea isn't going to work -but for posterity- anyone with similar issues, that's another angle to try before blowing off the screw head with King Kong force.

Phil

 

[akronman]

after picture

of the dispensers. Before pic was moldy and gross, lots of slow scraping and soaking.
I can see where the LK flow-through dispensers would be an improvement, but I'm guessing my cleanup here is first since 1975, so it should last unclogged quite a while again.

 

[rp2813]

Those dispensers get ugly pretty fast as I recall.  Diluting the fabric softener doesn't help much.  I had them out a few times on my mom's machine and had to make repairs to at least one if not both plungers.

 

Looks like the machine got a replacement belt at some point, unless they stopped using the green ones in '75.

 

Could it be possible that the agitator screw has a reverse thread?  Regardless, that is going to be a beautiful and refined machine after your work is through.

 

[jimmler]

Have you tried....

...an impact driver on that stuck screw? Harbor Freight used to carry one. Sears still does. Basically you hammer on the back of the tool and it incrementally rotates the bit in the end of it. The combination of smacking and rotating will budge a lot of stubborn screws. Of course there's always the potential it COULD twist off, but that's one of the risks working on these machines.

Good luck!

-Jim

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-impact-driver/p-00947641000P?prdNo=9&blockNo=9&blockType=G9

 

[combo52]

Stuck Agitator Screw & Single shot Dispensers

Mark you can also drill into the stuck screw and use an easy out, this screw is a standard lefty loosely, rightly tightly screw.

Mark, your silicone sealant trick should work just fine to stop the leaks for a good while, but any used AW of this age needs a good rebuilding if one wants it to last 5 years or more.

The single shot dispensers that this washer used were used on various WP and KM models from 1960 till the early 80s. Yes these dispensers will clog very quickly on the fabric softener side if not used with common sense. I have this system on my 1971 LKM washer that I used for over 25 years after rebuilding and never had any clogging issues.

When ever I added softener I put it in full strength and added a cup of hot water as a chaser and almost every time I used the washer I added a cup of hot water to BOTH dispensers to keep them clean and the hose flushed, never a problem but I am sure that few users would ever think to do this.

 

[akronman]

Hey John

Yea, I think the easy out idea is good, I'll try it soon. I do strongly want to get it all apart, replace the drain hose grommet and center post grommet, throw a nice glob of sealant over the tub bolts, the porcelain seams of the outer tub, all the stuff one's supposed to do on an old WP/K. I also think it's really easier to drill/tap/EZ-out with all the assembly out of the washer, instead of standing over it, leaning, etc. We'll see.

My 1960 WP has the same technology dispensers, I've used them for 3.5 years with extra hot water poured in, etc, they stay clean with a small amount of care. This one takes about 1 and 1/3 cups each side, the old one was more like 3/4 only, so this should truly be easy to keep running free with that space for hot water each load.

As ugly as the cabinet looked, it's only surface rust and should all clean up and take new paint well. Colors are fine if you get a machine that doesn't need repainting, but I like white for the old rusty ones, so darn easy.

and I ran enough loads with the timer as is, it works perfectly, so I'm gonna do the diagram labelled changes while it's all apart. Energize and switch between one wire and one contact for that optional second rinse, and switch the suds to kick on as soon as draining begins. Currently, it drains out the drain hose until the water level switch kicks in. then you get maybe 18 suds gallons saved. The diagram shows where to re-wire to get all 25 gallons, suds saving right from the moment draining starts. I've gone thru many loads with both hoses in the same tub, my soapstone sink takes maybe 25 and 1/8 gallons, very close to overflow.