this one should fit you machine as well......some kick ass vanes....
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70's Kenmore Suds model
- Thread starter akronman
- Start date
Help Support :
you would have to add the block....but this Super Roto Swirl will work too....
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and here's the block......
Gordon can give you a list of what will fit these machines.....interesting of how each one performs
Gordon can give you a list of what will fit these machines.....interesting of how each one performs
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mrb627
Well-known member
Agitator Swap?
Don't be ridiculous! That Penta-Swirl is a great performer and should remain where it is!!
Malcolm
Don't be ridiculous! That Penta-Swirl is a great performer and should remain where it is!!
Malcolm
"That Penta-Swirl . . . should remain where it is!!"
I have to agree with Malcom.
The Quiet Pak and Penta-Swirl go hand in hand. Not only is the machine nearly silent mechanically, but the Penta-Swirl provides a refined agitating action with minimal sloshing sounds.
I suppose I'm overly biased, considering our washer of this same model replaced the horrific '67 Snorge, which prevented watching TV in the adjacent den whenever it was running. Once the Kenmore showed up, we discovered what civilized living was all about.
I have to agree with Malcom.
The Quiet Pak and Penta-Swirl go hand in hand. Not only is the machine nearly silent mechanically, but the Penta-Swirl provides a refined agitating action with minimal sloshing sounds.
I suppose I'm overly biased, considering our washer of this same model replaced the horrific '67 Snorge, which prevented watching TV in the adjacent den whenever it was running. Once the Kenmore showed up, we discovered what civilized living was all about.
Martin is correct about the agitators - all three will fit fine. It would be neat to hear a quiet pak machine running with some of these agitators in them. I don't know of any model sold in a 29" machine with the quiet belt.
The Roto-Swirl would be a real challenge in an original sized large tub machine. Full water comes up to about 1.5 inches on the neck of the Penta-Swirl. Imagine the same from the top of the Roto-Swirl...water would be above the ribs onto the smooth part of the top, where a scrubber often goes.
Agreed on the price of the DA - WAAAAY too expensive. That's not a bad seller on eBay, but sometimes they get delusional. Tomorrow they'll list another DA for $12.00 though, seen it many times.
Gordon
The Roto-Swirl would be a real challenge in an original sized large tub machine. Full water comes up to about 1.5 inches on the neck of the Penta-Swirl. Imagine the same from the top of the Roto-Swirl...water would be above the ribs onto the smooth part of the top, where a scrubber often goes.
Agreed on the price of the DA - WAAAAY too expensive. That's not a bad seller on eBay, but sometimes they get delusional. Tomorrow they'll list another DA for $12.00 though, seen it many times.
Gordon
Thanks
For all the advice.
Martin---thanks for the PN# for a DA agitator, I'll look locally for someting less than $112, a lot less! But first I'll check it out as built. Ideally I want the Penta-Swirl it has and a DA for occasional fun.
Gordon---I am interesetd in the "Quiet Pak," very different from my other Kenmores. Besides the skinny belt I noticed, what other changes from a regular model? And with the timer and harnesses out of the console, the wiring job for 2nd rinse is clear as a bell. I'll wait a week of normal operation before the switch, and post about it. Very conveninet of WP/KM to use the same time for many models, all clearly labeled. And thank God the diagram is in great shape!
Also, More timer news, I 've been reading the entire diagram with a magnifying glass---there's a note about a wiring change to make if "you want all suds, up to 25 gallons, to be saved." Taking valve power from the full instead of empty side of the level switch? Who knows. But my laundry tub won't hold that!
The washer should be indoors today, then I have a busy evening out with friends, then Sunday will be my first day running the machine----
So far I've dismantled and cleaned the entire cruddy dirty console and installed the new temp switch, everything sparkles on the console, all else awaits.
Ovrphil---thanks for the original posting, do I holler at you if it leaks? Lol
John---I gotta see the plumbing/hoses/suds valve operating before I'll understand that filter system---
Besides no console light--what is this missing from a Lady K? It has soak, pre-wash, soak to wash, 2 speeds, all the dispensers, QuietPak, huge tub, 3 cycles. If the LK was all pre-determined automatic buttons, then I'm happier with this machine.
Thanks
Mark
For all the advice.
Martin---thanks for the PN# for a DA agitator, I'll look locally for someting less than $112, a lot less! But first I'll check it out as built. Ideally I want the Penta-Swirl it has and a DA for occasional fun.
Gordon---I am interesetd in the "Quiet Pak," very different from my other Kenmores. Besides the skinny belt I noticed, what other changes from a regular model? And with the timer and harnesses out of the console, the wiring job for 2nd rinse is clear as a bell. I'll wait a week of normal operation before the switch, and post about it. Very conveninet of WP/KM to use the same time for many models, all clearly labeled. And thank God the diagram is in great shape!
Also, More timer news, I 've been reading the entire diagram with a magnifying glass---there's a note about a wiring change to make if "you want all suds, up to 25 gallons, to be saved." Taking valve power from the full instead of empty side of the level switch? Who knows. But my laundry tub won't hold that!
The washer should be indoors today, then I have a busy evening out with friends, then Sunday will be my first day running the machine----
So far I've dismantled and cleaned the entire cruddy dirty console and installed the new temp switch, everything sparkles on the console, all else awaits.
Ovrphil---thanks for the original posting, do I holler at you if it leaks? Lol
John---I gotta see the plumbing/hoses/suds valve operating before I'll understand that filter system---
Besides no console light--what is this missing from a Lady K? It has soak, pre-wash, soak to wash, 2 speeds, all the dispensers, QuietPak, huge tub, 3 cycles. If the LK was all pre-determined automatic buttons, then I'm happier with this machine.
Thanks
Mark
Cool 1975 KM Washer
Hi Mark, the main difference on the narrow belt machines were all the pulleys are different and of coerce the belt. In addition the motor may have different rubber mounts to reduce vibration transmission to the base-plate and sometimes they also used a motor pulley that had a rubber isolator built into the pulley.
What you lost by not spending the extra $40 to get the LKM ? not a lot in functional features as you mention. But many including myself would spend the extra money for,
The full width Florescent Light
Flush through detergent and fabric softener dispensers that clean them selves and do not clog.
A 2nd rinse option.
And a heavier more durable control panel construction that was easier to operate for persons that were blind or had poor vision. [ Sears offered a no-cost braille overlay kit for the LKM machines ]
Hi Mark, the main difference on the narrow belt machines were all the pulleys are different and of coerce the belt. In addition the motor may have different rubber mounts to reduce vibration transmission to the base-plate and sometimes they also used a motor pulley that had a rubber isolator built into the pulley.
What you lost by not spending the extra $40 to get the LKM ? not a lot in functional features as you mention. But many including myself would spend the extra money for,
The full width Florescent Light
Flush through detergent and fabric softener dispensers that clean them selves and do not clog.
A 2nd rinse option.
And a heavier more durable control panel construction that was easier to operate for persons that were blind or had poor vision. [ Sears offered a no-cost braille overlay kit for the LKM machines ]
Braille
Mirro Matic pressure cookers, from the start, included in their advertising statements that the pressure cooker could easily be used by the blind because instead of a pressure gauge which had to be watched, it used the three hole pressure regulator which could be labeled for the blind. The use and care book with recipes was available in Braille. Even for sighted cooks, Mirro advertised "cooking without looking" because of the audible signal of cooking pressure.
The cycle buttons with the lock stop timer in LK washers and combos seemed like a good thing for those with impaired vision. There is a current TV ad campaign for a disorder that many totally blind people have because their brains get no visual imput and their circadian rhythms vary resulting in sleeplessness at night and sleepiness during the daylight hours. A woman is shown loading laundry into a FL and starting it, but not adding detergent. I guess that could be an argument for pods or other form of premeasured additives. It is some machine with the cycle selector in the middle of the front panel, but it is not shown closely enough to see if it has Braille markings.What a blessing to have working senses.
Mirro Matic pressure cookers, from the start, included in their advertising statements that the pressure cooker could easily be used by the blind because instead of a pressure gauge which had to be watched, it used the three hole pressure regulator which could be labeled for the blind. The use and care book with recipes was available in Braille. Even for sighted cooks, Mirro advertised "cooking without looking" because of the audible signal of cooking pressure.
The cycle buttons with the lock stop timer in LK washers and combos seemed like a good thing for those with impaired vision. There is a current TV ad campaign for a disorder that many totally blind people have because their brains get no visual imput and their circadian rhythms vary resulting in sleeplessness at night and sleepiness during the daylight hours. A woman is shown loading laundry into a FL and starting it, but not adding detergent. I guess that could be an argument for pods or other form of premeasured additives. It is some machine with the cycle selector in the middle of the front panel, but it is not shown closely enough to see if it has Braille markings.What a blessing to have working senses.
Lady K vs. the 70 series
It is always an interesting discussion when comparing the upper MOL models at Sears with the Lady K. I suspect another discussion is not going to change anyone's mind, as we all like what we like, BUT, I wanted to respond about the price/cost differences between the 1974 Lady and this 1975 KM 70. I checked two period catalogs. In the Fall '74 edition, the Lady was $339 and the 1974 70 was $279 (this is an undelivered price). Later the Lady had risen to $359, and a 70 to $289. Let's go with an average difference of $65. Keep in mind that this is in 1975 dollars.
It doesn't seem like much to get a much more robust console in the Lady, the cool click-stop button operation, the triple dispenser, console light, etc. for $65. Convert that though to 2014 dollars, and the difference comes to $291.87. So, if we were buyers in 1975, the value of $65 would feel like $290 does today.
To me, I'm just referring to myself, are those few features worth $290? Not really. When you consider that water temps are much more easily manipulated on the 70 series, for my needs it would have been a no-brainer, 70 series!
Gordon
It is always an interesting discussion when comparing the upper MOL models at Sears with the Lady K. I suspect another discussion is not going to change anyone's mind, as we all like what we like, BUT, I wanted to respond about the price/cost differences between the 1974 Lady and this 1975 KM 70. I checked two period catalogs. In the Fall '74 edition, the Lady was $339 and the 1974 70 was $279 (this is an undelivered price). Later the Lady had risen to $359, and a 70 to $289. Let's go with an average difference of $65. Keep in mind that this is in 1975 dollars.
It doesn't seem like much to get a much more robust console in the Lady, the cool click-stop button operation, the triple dispenser, console light, etc. for $65. Convert that though to 2014 dollars, and the difference comes to $291.87. So, if we were buyers in 1975, the value of $65 would feel like $290 does today.
To me, I'm just referring to myself, are those few features worth $290? Not really. When you consider that water temps are much more easily manipulated on the 70 series, for my needs it would have been a no-brainer, 70 series!
Gordon
ovrphil
Well-known member
Good comparison
I like your thoughts, Gordon. The only problem with me is ..if they made the Lady K's fancier(aka as "cooler" looking, in my vocabulario
, I'd probably spring for the extra money. But is the Lady K of 1974 and KM 70 that much different? OTOH, I've seen some much nicer looking Lady K's over the standard model series they are born from.
Good points, Gordon.
I like your thoughts, Gordon. The only problem with me is ..if they made the Lady K's fancier(aka as "cooler" looking, in my vocabulario
, I'd probably spring for the extra money. But is the Lady K of 1974 and KM 70 that much different? OTOH, I've seen some much nicer looking Lady K's over the standard model series they are born from. Good points, Gordon.
Indoors
and hooked up and running. Yes, some problems, but well worth the purchase price. The lid hinges are shot, I can find on Ebay, so for now no lid.
Only bad news: slight leak in front left corner, near the outer tub hose. It could be either the drain port hose or a tub bolt. Approx a cup per load(2 fills) and the interior of the cabinet tells me it's nothing new, lol, so it can wait a week or two.
Other bad news--the detergent dispenser solenoid doesn't work, but I don't have the dispenser, apparently a rarely purchased/hard to find accesory, so that may never be an issue.
Also, the front plastic 1" wide legs are shot, I ain't yet sure the rear self-levelers work, either. I have fixed rear levelers before with cleaning and de-rusting, grease, we'll see. Front legs are Ebay. Basement floor is rough and uneven, I have lots of good-legged machines that require a shim on this or that leg, no choice in this basement. So that repair can wait a while also.
Good news----A) CAVERNOUS TUB!!!!!Holy crap!!!!! Gigantic!!!!!
B) PentaSwirl does great turnover, quite impressive. Months down the road I'll seek a DualAction agitator to compare, but this is damn fine.
C) QuietPak------very noticeably quieter than my 60 WP, remarkable. But a quick short squeal when spin kicks in, maybe 4 seconds, especially in the gentle cycle since the neutral drain is high-speed motor, then a split second switch to both spin cam engage and low speed motor at the same instant. If a 4 second mild squeak is all it ever makes, it's very impressively smooth and quiet.
d) Suds-----it's "automatic saving" on the suds, no option at all except do you plug the drainsink or not. Fine with me, I like suds. Suds are also saved on the gentle cycle. I have not and likely won't ever touch the PermaPress cycle, I usually hate them. No need for my water bill to equal my mortgage!
E) FS and LCB dispensers---they click in at appropriate points, but only 2 loads so far so not entirely proven.
F) Snubber system is much tighter than my 1960 WP, seems fine.
G) Soak cycle-------it will go directly from Suds Suck into 22 minutes of soak, also the knob allows to then proceed into main wash. Or no suds sucking and it fills for soak. Soaking is always lo-speed, starts with 2 minutes of agitation, then has maybe 3 minutes of pause, then gives a 10 second agitation/3 min pause about 5 times, taking up the 22 minutes. AMAZING!!!! IS THERE ANYTHING THIS TIMER WON't DO??? When the dial hits the Pre-Wash section, it's about 4 minutes lo-speed agi, then a high speed spin,no saving suds or spray rinsing. Or you just dial the PreWash, get those 4 minutes of lo agi and a spin, no previous soak. Then, depending on knobs, it can automatically go into the normal 14 minutes wash cycle, high-speed.
H) Timer again----WOW!!! 14 cams!!! And a spray rinse sub-interval and a soak/agi sub interval!!!!
Time for more coffee, then more posting----more suds info!
I have BOL machines, various brands, and MOL and TOL, all of which I enjoy. But this one's options/timer/knobs are extremely impressive. A lighted dashboard would be cool for sure, but I like this better than the LK pre-decided buttons. This lets me decide all the time. Of Course if a $50 LK from this era showed up, I'd smile.
Meaningles complaint---the console/timer/knobs do EVEYTHING in the world, and all are in nice good shape, great. But I've never really enjoyed the Kenmore Center dial look.
and hooked up and running. Yes, some problems, but well worth the purchase price. The lid hinges are shot, I can find on Ebay, so for now no lid.
Only bad news: slight leak in front left corner, near the outer tub hose. It could be either the drain port hose or a tub bolt. Approx a cup per load(2 fills) and the interior of the cabinet tells me it's nothing new, lol, so it can wait a week or two.
Other bad news--the detergent dispenser solenoid doesn't work, but I don't have the dispenser, apparently a rarely purchased/hard to find accesory, so that may never be an issue.
Also, the front plastic 1" wide legs are shot, I ain't yet sure the rear self-levelers work, either. I have fixed rear levelers before with cleaning and de-rusting, grease, we'll see. Front legs are Ebay. Basement floor is rough and uneven, I have lots of good-legged machines that require a shim on this or that leg, no choice in this basement. So that repair can wait a while also.
Good news----A) CAVERNOUS TUB!!!!!Holy crap!!!!! Gigantic!!!!!
B) PentaSwirl does great turnover, quite impressive. Months down the road I'll seek a DualAction agitator to compare, but this is damn fine.
C) QuietPak------very noticeably quieter than my 60 WP, remarkable. But a quick short squeal when spin kicks in, maybe 4 seconds, especially in the gentle cycle since the neutral drain is high-speed motor, then a split second switch to both spin cam engage and low speed motor at the same instant. If a 4 second mild squeak is all it ever makes, it's very impressively smooth and quiet.
d) Suds-----it's "automatic saving" on the suds, no option at all except do you plug the drainsink or not. Fine with me, I like suds. Suds are also saved on the gentle cycle. I have not and likely won't ever touch the PermaPress cycle, I usually hate them. No need for my water bill to equal my mortgage!
E) FS and LCB dispensers---they click in at appropriate points, but only 2 loads so far so not entirely proven.
F) Snubber system is much tighter than my 1960 WP, seems fine.
G) Soak cycle-------it will go directly from Suds Suck into 22 minutes of soak, also the knob allows to then proceed into main wash. Or no suds sucking and it fills for soak. Soaking is always lo-speed, starts with 2 minutes of agitation, then has maybe 3 minutes of pause, then gives a 10 second agitation/3 min pause about 5 times, taking up the 22 minutes. AMAZING!!!! IS THERE ANYTHING THIS TIMER WON't DO??? When the dial hits the Pre-Wash section, it's about 4 minutes lo-speed agi, then a high speed spin,no saving suds or spray rinsing. Or you just dial the PreWash, get those 4 minutes of lo agi and a spin, no previous soak. Then, depending on knobs, it can automatically go into the normal 14 minutes wash cycle, high-speed.
H) Timer again----WOW!!! 14 cams!!! And a spray rinse sub-interval and a soak/agi sub interval!!!!
Time for more coffee, then more posting----more suds info!
I have BOL machines, various brands, and MOL and TOL, all of which I enjoy. But this one's options/timer/knobs are extremely impressive. A lighted dashboard would be cool for sure, but I like this better than the LK pre-decided buttons. This lets me decide all the time. Of Course if a $50 LK from this era showed up, I'd smile.
Meaningles complaint---the console/timer/knobs do EVEYTHING in the world, and all are in nice good shape, great. But I've never really enjoyed the Kenmore Center dial look.
mrb627
Well-known member
Awesome!
The penta swirl agitator is more fun than the penta vane, IMO.
Hope you can make a video so the rest of us can enjoy it too...
Malcolm
The penta swirl agitator is more fun than the penta vane, IMO.
Hope you can make a video so the rest of us can enjoy it too...
Malcolm
heres a video of a PentaSwirl in action.....I always found it best for these to be used on 1/2 to 3/4 water levels...wished they would have extended the vanes on the barrel as well....
and the PentaVane...which seems to allow more capacity....
each one unique in its own way...
each one unique in its own way...
and the PentaVane...which seems to allow more capacity....
each one unique in its own way...
each one unique in its own way...
and of course....the DualAction.....in action!
Love that Pentaswirl video. I always wondered though... at the 5:20 mark, is the reason that the washer starts its spin when the tub is moved really caused by an off balance switch, or was it just coincidence? I didn't think that an off balance switch simply cut power to the spin cam bar solenoid, but rather power to the entire machine when it was tripped, requiring a manual reset before the cycle continued on.
And speaking of the spin, very nice "grind-click-clunk" sound in this particular video... but why is it called a _grind_-click-clunk? To me it should have been called a buzz-click-clunk, since the first part is the solenoid buzzing. A grind sound is more like gears in a transmission not meshing.
And speaking of the spin, very nice "grind-click-clunk" sound in this particular video... but why is it called a _grind_-click-clunk? To me it should have been called a buzz-click-clunk, since the first part is the solenoid buzzing. A grind sound is more like gears in a transmission not meshing.
The machine in Yogi's Penta-Swirl clip above is the exact one my mom had, only hers was white. I guess they dropped the console light on the '75 models because Mom's machine had one. Is the cut-out still there for a light above the timer dial? If so, it might not be difficult to wire one in.
I agree with the statements above that indicate a preference for this model over the LK. I didn't care for the LK's from this period and preferred having more control and customization options that this 70 series offered. The LK's seemed to have more keys than anyone would ever use, and struck me as gratuitous overkill.
As Mark stated above in reply #46, this machine was very capable and did more than most users could ask for -- and quietly. It was without question the best machine my mom ever owned, needing only a filter and a belt over the 25 year period she had it. After owning Norges since 1956, she deserved something more refined and I helped her select this beautiful and reliable Kenmore. It was probably the best major appliance purchase ever made for the household outside of her '49 Westinghouse range, which outlasted her and is still cooking up meals for Greg in Georgia.
I agree with the statements above that indicate a preference for this model over the LK. I didn't care for the LK's from this period and preferred having more control and customization options that this 70 series offered. The LK's seemed to have more keys than anyone would ever use, and struck me as gratuitous overkill.
As Mark stated above in reply #46, this machine was very capable and did more than most users could ask for -- and quietly. It was without question the best machine my mom ever owned, needing only a filter and a belt over the 25 year period she had it. After owning Norges since 1956, she deserved something more refined and I helped her select this beautiful and reliable Kenmore. It was probably the best major appliance purchase ever made for the household outside of her '49 Westinghouse range, which outlasted her and is still cooking up meals for Greg in Georgia.
Todd -
The machine in the video was not sensing it was off balance, it was simply working its way through a 4-minute neutral drain period. These tubs, when they have self-cleaing lint filters to flush, usually take about two minutes to drain. When less than full, that time decreases. So, the guys in the video thought the machine was sitting doing nothing for a long time and it was coincidental that it engaged spin right after they moved the tub. Had the machine OOB relay been tripped, the motor would have shut down and a buzzer would have been driving them berzerk.
Ralph -
The console on the '74 model is similar to the '75 only in appearance around the timer. There is no provision possible for a light in the '75.
Mark -
I am so glad that you are already enjoying this machine. You did a nice job cleaning up the console, I am sometimes amazed at how dirty people will allow things to become.
Check your bleach hose as a source for the slight leak in the front corner. There is a lot of rust in that area which could either be coming from the tub outlet hose or the bleach hose.
There are lots of front legs out there available, I see them on eBay all the time. A good price is about $10 with free shipping for a pair.
This washer got lucky that it found you Mark!
Gordon
The machine in the video was not sensing it was off balance, it was simply working its way through a 4-minute neutral drain period. These tubs, when they have self-cleaing lint filters to flush, usually take about two minutes to drain. When less than full, that time decreases. So, the guys in the video thought the machine was sitting doing nothing for a long time and it was coincidental that it engaged spin right after they moved the tub. Had the machine OOB relay been tripped, the motor would have shut down and a buzzer would have been driving them berzerk.
Ralph -
The console on the '74 model is similar to the '75 only in appearance around the timer. There is no provision possible for a light in the '75.
Mark -
I am so glad that you are already enjoying this machine. You did a nice job cleaning up the console, I am sometimes amazed at how dirty people will allow things to become.
Check your bleach hose as a source for the slight leak in the front corner. There is a lot of rust in that area which could either be coming from the tub outlet hose or the bleach hose.
There are lots of front legs out there available, I see them on eBay all the time. A good price is about $10 with free shipping for a pair.
This washer got lucky that it found you Mark!
Gordon
