A & H non-HE powdered detergent in an Epic FL - OK?

[dnastrau]

Hi everyone:

After a month with our new Maytag Epic 9700 we are very pleased. My Wife agrees that this is the best appliance purchase we have ever made This however brings me to a question: Why does Whirltag require the use of HE-rated detergents only in the owner's manual? Is this only to prevent oversudsing? I didn't think these machines were prone to tub bearing damage from this condition like some others.

We normally used Arm & Hammer powdered detergent in our old KitchenAid TL with great results. Will we damage our new Epic by using it (at a much lower cocentration)? I have tried it a couple of times (using about 1/3 what is called for in a TL) with what seem like great results - NO suds during the wash cycle (actually less than liquid HE detergent!)

I normally don't question what manufacturers recommend, but in this case I can't see why we couldn't use the A & H powdered detergent since it appears to be low-sudsing by nature. Any thoughts? The last thing I want to do is damage our new machine.

Thanks for any thoughts on the subject.

Andrew S.

 

[decodriveboy]

Andrew

I believe HE detergent is designed for companies to make more profit. I don't any difference in the sudsing or cleaning ability and I have tried many brands. For example, Tide HE has very high sudsing than the regular Fab I use, which is much cheaper (and smells better!)

Supposedly, the HE detergent is useful to prevent mold/mildew growth in the wash basket, but that problem is avoided if you are diligent about leaving the washer door and tray open after each use.

 

[maytagbear]

Uhhh

I have read that some models of the Frigelux front loader are very sensitive to oversudsing, and that they sustain heavy damage.

I know an Epic is not the same machine.

However, you have spent big bucks on it, so why not get the HE detergent?

I would not use laundry detergent in a dishwasher, and frankly, using regular laundry detergent in a FL makes about as much sense to me.

The Sears brand HE detergents seem to work very well, and are economical (so the numbers say) to use.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[westtexman]

Depending on the detergent, I don't believe it's always necessarily bad to use a regular detergent in an HE machine - provided you have enough detergent to get the clothes clean and keep the soil/dyes from redepositing while still preventing oversudsing.

I have heard that A&H powder is bad for all types of washing machines. I think the old thread is gone, but I remember some saying that the high content of baking soda was causing some problems in many machines. I think I even remember some saying that some laundromats were banning the use of A&H powders in their machines.

Bryan

 

[frigilux]

HE detergents are formulated to control sudsing, suspend soils in small amounts of water, and keep dyes from transferring in small amounts of water.

Having said that, I used (and still use, sometimes) regular detergents in my frontloaders for years with no detrimental effects, including two FrigiLux machines.

Use up your Arm & Hammer, then give a top-grade HE detergent a try and see what you think of it.

I'd highly recommend SA8 With Bioquest® (Quixtar.com), Tide HE (powder) or Gain HE (liquid). You may find you get better results using HE detergents in your low water-use frontloader.

 

[pulsator]

I was under the impression that regular detergents were only designed to suspend soil for a maximum of about 15 minutes? Then they wear off and the soil settles again? Since most high efficiency washers have to wash for a longer period of time than 15 minutes, wouldn't this make them somewhat if not greatly less effective? I personally have found Persil powder and Tide HE powder to work best in FL washers, I haven't really experimented with a great number of detergents though, but I don't think I'd use any detergent that is not designed for high efficiency machines in a high efficiency machine. That being said, I also hate it when people use HE detergents in a regular toploader! I know so many people who do it insisting it makes their machines HE... There should always be a certain amount of suds in the wash, and there are different detergents for different kinds of machines. I generally stick to about an inch of suds as just right for me. No matter what kind of machine I'm using, I just have to match the right soap with the right washer and voila! Just right suds!!!

 

[mayken4now]

Just bought a bunch of HE detergent today to use un my NOT YET posted NIB CALYPSO'S. I refuse to offend the manufactures reccomendation. They know.

Steve

 

[launderess]

All that is required of an detergent for front loading washing machines is that it be low sudsing enough not to create excess foam at dosages required to get laundry clean (cushions laundry and harms washing action), and that it be easily rinsed in low water conditions regardless of dosage.

All detergents sold in North American today "HE" or not keep dyes and colours from bleeding (to an extent) and prevent dye transfer). Or at least the TOL versions including many detergents made for coloured items such as Cheer.

The problem is when one uses a traditional high foaming detergent (refered to also as "high dilution", because they are meant to be used in top loading washing machines where due to water levels they will be diluted greatly), is that by reducing detergent dosage low enough not to cause foaming, one will not reach the required concentration of detergent to water ratio that will not only clean washing, but keep removed soils/oils in suspension and washed down the drain. If one or both parts of the this washing process are not followed laundry is not "clean" of all stains/soils, and or will turn dingy "tattle-tale" grey. The other problem concerns the washing machine itself, which is that surfaces in contact with the poor wash water will eventually build up layers of biofilm/crud from the oils/soils that were not kept in suspension. This leads to mould and mildew growth inside the machine.

Finally there is also the problem that high dilution detergents when used within a front loader may not totally disperse and leave residues not only inside the machine, but on the laundry as well.

Arm*Hammer detergent powder is known to be some what low sudsing, but that is also because it is rather high on washing soda and baking soda. Both of which clean laundry well enough, but when I tried A&H powder, found it left my towels stiff and scratchy. Never bothered with the stuff again.

As for front loaders and sudsing effecting the seals, yes: on some machines repeated excess foaming will work it's way into the seals and cause them to fail. Commercial laundromat machines get around this problem (ever see anyone use "HE" detergent at a laundromat?), because the bearings/seals on those machines are designed for easy replacement. Something not true for most domestic front loaders.

Posted awhile back that detergents have a finite active period time. That is when the chemistry of a particular formula is designed, it is done so under the assumption that the product will be used in a particular type or types of machine. For instance Tide like most American detergents is rather aggressive, but designed to work best in the rather short (15 minutes or so max) wash cycles for American top loaders. European laundry detergnents, which by the way are most always for front loaders unless specified otherwise, thus no "HE"; are meant to work in the long boil washing/wash cycles of their domestic washing machines. Many European detergent makers have come out with new formulas for "short cycles" in response to demands for shorter cycles that have been popping up on many European washing machines, but still what those machines consider "short" are likely to be longer than the standard American wash cycle.

 

[dnastrau]

Thanks for the information!

Wow, thanks to all who responded! As always, the knowledge shared here is both interesting and helpful. Based on all of the information here we will only use HE detergent in our Epic due to the combination of high concentration and low sudsing properties. The leftover A & H powder can be sent over to the MIL!

Andrew S.