American vs. European Detergents - What's the Scoop?

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westtexman

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In my never-ending quest for the "perfect" laundry detergent(s), I have accumulated quite a stash. I have detergents from the US, Germany, the UK and Mexico. I also have quite a few additives, softeners and other "chemicals". I am working toward downsizing my collection and am trying to figure out what works best for me in my water conditions. At the same time, I am also experimenting with lower water temperatures and other methods of getting my laundry as clean and white as possible without doing a 2 hour wash and running up high energy bills.

My favorites so far are German Persil powder and UK Persil Bio Tablets for whites, lights and towels, UK Persil Non-Bio Tabs for sheets, and a variety of others for colors (still searching there). I have FL machine with an internal heater which I use primarily for whites, lights, sheets and towels, and I tend to do most of my colors and some lights in my F&P top loader.

Based on my personal experience with over 55 different detergents, I am headed toward the conclusion that the European detergents tend to be better than their American counterparts specifically on white and light-colored items. As far as colored items are concerned, I think the American products work just as well as the Euro products. Mexican products work VERY WELL too (probably due to the phosphates), but the overpowering smells can be a bit much on most days, and they seem to be loaded with OBA's and so I hesitate to use them as much on colored clothing.

I can't imagine that there would be a huge difference in quality between the US and the European detergents, especially when many of the detergents are produced by the same manufacturers. So I'm wondering, why the difference in results? Is the make-up of these detergents that different? I know that the Euro detergents seem to have quite a bit of bleach in them, which I assume is a major factor. Could there be more to it? Could it be that I see better results with the Euro detergents because I use them in the FL with longer wash times and higher wash temps?

When using the Euro detergents in the FL with the higher water temperatures and the extended wash times, I don't have the need for liquid chlorine bleach (LCB) like I did when I was using American detergents (like Tide) in the TL. In fact, when I stopped using LCB over a year ago and began washing all my whites in the FL with Euro detergents, I've noticed that my t-shirts are actually WHITER than when I was using Tide and LCB in the TL. I realized that if one uses LCB too often, then it tends to yellow clothing. My t-shirts are now restored to bright white, and I couldn't be happier.

Maybe I'm just operating under my own presuppositions dictating that one must use LCB when washing in a TL, due to the shorter wash times and the lower temperatures. Could I be wrong? Would I get the same results in the TL if I were to use Tide w/ Bleach powder without adding LCB? Honestly, I've never done this as I am afraid the results will be less than satisfactory.

Furthermore, I've heard that US detergents (like Tide) do have some oxygen bleach in them. Does it have as much oxygen bleach as say UK Ariel or Persil? What about Tide w/ Bleach? Does Tide w/ Bleach have the same type of oxygen bleach as Ariel or Persil, and in similar quantities? What about Tide Coldwater? Does it contain oxygen bleach, or does it rely more on enzymes to get the job done in cold water?

I've just read some posts that some of our European members are using their Euro detergents in American TL machines with cold water. To those who have tried this, do you get the same results as far as whitening and brightening in the TL with cold water as you would in your FL with hot water?

Opinions, anyone?
 
Any detergent in the right concentration in the right machine at the right temperature can do a good job.

I'm with you: I like the UK Persil products. Original bio and colour tabs are my favorite. The aloe vera ones are OK, but I think the enzyme ones clean better (at least psychologically). I love the Mexican Viva and Lirio also.

I've never been a P&G fan. Tide, Cheer, Gain, eh... But bring me back some original Oxydol and Dash, and it might be a different story! I think some of the underdog companies do it just as good if not better than P&G. As much as I like UK Ariel tabs for cleaning, the smell is bad to me. Mex Ariel smell better but it is soooooo strong!

American detergents by comparison are very sweet smelling and the scent tends to linger a bit more. US additives also tend to be suped-up detergents rather than actual additives (Clorox 2, Biz, Spray 'n Wash, etc) and really add to the suds factor.

I'm not a big fan of LCB. Never really needed to use it in laundry.
 
Clorox is the only LCB I know of here in the US that actually balances the PH of the chlorine content to the water in the market it is sold in. That has a LOT to do with why some off-brand bleachs tend to yellow clothes. Also timing means a lot.

The new "Splash-Less" Clorox with the dark purple label, has been chemically altered a bit so the the chlorine does not cause fabric damage over time like the less controlled formulae does.

I'd put some of the American detergents right up there with the best in the world---Fab comes to mind.

As far as imports---- the Persil is o.k. but won't hold a candle to that FABULOUS stuff (I can never remember the name)Louis sent Greg, from the Netherlands! Oh, that had a wonderful fragrance!

My all around favorite is VIVA!!!!!!!!!
 
Is Dixan the same as Persil Megapearls? From the pictures I've seen, it looks the same, but I've not actually seen the product in person.

I know that Persil is marketing itself under different names in different countries. They are selling their Megapearls, Megapearls Color and Sensitiv lines under the Sainsbury's name in the UK. They market their original powder as "Le Chat Perfect!" in France.
 
Seamus -

When you say "on clearance", do you mean that they are phasing out the Perform Megaperls powders? Noticed they weren't listed on the Sainsburys website last time I did an online grocery shop, but just assumed they were out of stock.

Hope that isn't the case, as it only launched fairly recently, and is the first detergent I've found in recent years that happens to tick all the boxes for me. Would be just typical, any time a decent product comes out it always disappears again quick as a flash LOL.

Oh, well...!

Kirk
 
This topc just came up on my usenet quilt group (RCTQ). Several people on that group live in the UK and they say they use biodegradable detergents for colors, and non-biodegradable detergents for whites. They say they never heard of putting chlorine bleach in their washing washing machines and shudder at the thought. I would like to try this but can't find any non-biodegradable detergents on this side of the pond. Scott in CA AKA Quiltnbear
 
When a person in UK or Continental Europe

says "bio," they mean a detergent WITH enzymes, and "non-bio" is a detergent without enzymes.

The matter has nothing to do with biodegradability. Nothing.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
Most bottom and mid shelf level detergents are "non-bio" in that they do not contain enzymes. IIRC, Ajax, Trend, and a few others do not contain enzymes. Now what enzymes have to do with fading colours is anyone's guess, have never heard of such a thing. My guess it would be the bleaching agents and OBAs added to top shelf detergents that cause fading problems.

Note that non-bio detergents pretty much are the stuff of old, that our grand-mothers and their mothers used, with all the problems associated with doing laundry in those days. Without enzymes to break down protien, starch,and oils one needs a somewhat strong (alkaline)detergent, which really only handles the oils. Starch and protien stains really only respond well to enzymes, which is why when enzyme pre-soaks/pre-treats came out housewives all over shouted for joy. Baby spew, ring around the collar, food stains, and so on could be dealth with without harsh detergents, very hot water and harsh bleaches.

As for LCB, it is rarely used for laundry outside of the United States. In the UK and Europe the traditon has long been boil washes with percarbonate/perborate bleaches either added on their own, or detergents containing such substances.
 
My experiences and my knowledge tell me the following facts:
Before we moved together mate used a FL for years (very good test-results by the Stiftung Warentest in Germany because of AAA-rates) but he complained about his white shirts and t-shirts. I used my twinny with high waterlevels and had much whiter items than him. So he added water by hand to his FL, following my advise to get higher suds - and everything became much brighter after several washs. He used Persil, I used Ariel.
Now we have got an American TL (SpeedQueen) and we only wash cold but still we have bright whites and dark blacks as well as bright colours using Ariel powder and liquid and PERWOLL!
Concerning the LCB: LCB kills not only germs and stains but also the enzymes as well as the brightening agents in the detergent! We do not use it very much in Germany nowadays anymore! Also I found out that in American powders are less bleaching-agents than in European powders, maybe because we don't add extra bleach in our machines like in America and do not have any compartment where to put it in our machines..?
So, if I use chlorine bleach, I usually add it to a seperate PREWASH - with or even without any powder or use it as a pre-treatment directly on the stains. In Germany there's only one popular LCB-agent on the market namely DAN CLORIX from Colgate-Palmolive and they send you free leaflets with 117 ways of using the bleach arround the house. There they tell you the same facts about the destroying of brightening-agents when using LCB. Also when there's iron in the water LCB makes it yellowing the clothes by precipitating it! That advice I found in the little booklet from my former SpeedQueen "A guide to better automatic washing", so these might be the reasons for the yellowing!?
Last but not least: If you mix oxygene-bleaching agent and chlorine-bleach together they both destroy eachother! Try it in a Pyrex-jar and see what happens!!
Ralf
 
Kirk....

Yep they would appear to be discontinued- as you say its a pity because they are fantastic!. I know our local one had a few boxes of the normal bio last time I was there but the colour variant has gone :(

Seamus
 
Yellowing Caused By LCB

Is due to incomplete rinsing/neutralsing of chlorine bleach form cellouse fibers such as linen and cotton. This is why commercial laundries add a "anti-chlor" cycle to their laundering processes if they use chlorine bleach.

Chlorine bleach is very difficult to remove from fibers, hence commercial laundries use anti-chlors and housewives were advised to add white vinegar to their final rinse water to remove any remaining bleach residue.

Using large amounts of bleach with poor rinising will cause major long term damage to textiles. If one can still smell bleach on laundry as it is being removed from the washer, then there is bleach residue.

Yes, if one has high iron content water, LCB will cause nasty stains.

Oxygen bleach and chlorine bleach cancel each other out. If one wishes to neutralise chlorine bleach, one can use oxygen bleach in the next cycle. Oxygen bleach is one of the main chemicals in "color-safe/protecting" detergents because it helps to neutralise chlorine bleach used by most local water supplies.

Eau de Javel (French name for LCB)was not popular with many French and other wealthy familes when it came into use around the 1700's or 1800's. They prefered the old fashioned method of bleaching linens in "bleaching fields", which they felt (correctly) was far more gentle to fibers.

Personally try never to use LCB, but on those off times when nothing else will shift a stain, will use a Clorox bleach pen on the stain; this way washing with oxygen bleach in the wash will neutralise the bleach.

Tidbits:

When using bleach for pre-treating, any stain not removed within five minutes, will not be removed. Longer contact time will only result in textile damage.

The whitening and sanitising power of bleach is complete within 5 minutes of cycle time (less in hotter water), thus no need for long "bleach" cycles. Unlike oxygen bleach, chlorine bleach is an effective fabric whitener/stain remover and santitiser in cold water.

LCB is not the be all and end all when it comes to laundry santising. It takes careful calibration of bleach levels to alkalinity of the wash water and soil level to assure proper results. This can lead to large amounts of bleach being used which causes fabric damage. This is one reason commercial laundries are looking to oxygen bleach with activators as a means of sanitising laundry.

Some domestic front loaders mimic commercial laundry's bleaching cycle by adding LCB in the first rinse.

L.
 
LCB

Yes, these are facts I forgot to add! Five Minutes are defenitively enough!
I own a big collection of olde and very olde houshold-books where the user is told to use chlorine bleach just in small amounts, diluted with water, to treat stains just before washing and giving the strongest advice to neutralise the part of the item immediately in water containing any acid available afterwards. It is also given the advise not to soak or drown the whole textile into bleach-solution as it ruins the fabric after a while. Even I do sometimes what my grandmother did still during the sixties or seventies when she had stains in white tablecloths: she bleached them on the lawn! Just spread them on the gras in the sun, keeping them wet for 2-3 hours, turning them once during that time, and the stains will disappear! The plants produce oxygen which will be trapped in the wet textile and cut up from O2 into single O-molecules by the power of the ultra-violet rays. These very vigorous molecules act like oxygen-bleach in the wash-powder. Together with the powerful ultra-violet light from the sun (which is a bleaching agent, too!) this reaction bleaches and disinfects the textiles by reduction and oxydation.
The way of adding bleach in the first rinse I found in washers in Spain where there is also a fourth dispenser for that purpose even in machines built in Germany which lacks in them when sold here at home! LCB is still quite popular in Spain!
To get the utmost white on textiles there is also another method that can be used to brighten as well: blueing! Also still quite fab in Spain it is hardly to be found in Germany anymore eventhough it was popular during my childhood-time in the sixties. I use it even in the wash-water in the FL to get the best result as the wash-water dilutes it better than the final rinse does because of the very low water-level in modern machines! If it is not absolutely equally diluted you get streaks and shadows or even stains of grey-blue colour on your clothes. But there's no problem with that when used in tub-washers! I brought several bottles from Spain - they should last at least 5 years or more as you only need a teaspoon full, diluted in 1 litre of cold water, for a whole load in an american washer!! And blueing is not necessary every time you wash - every second or third will do!
Ralf
 
I'm with Lederstienfeld: when I first got my Miele, I was expecting miracles. These did not occur and I was rather disappointed. Then one day I had to wash a load of whites "quickly", so I used the Delicate cycle (55 mins instead of the Cotton 1:47), which has a high water level and a brisk tumbling. DAZZLING WHITES!!! After that, everything I washed went through the Delicate cycle for about a month until I was satisfied, then I reverted back to the normal cycles used for loads, and haven't had a problem since.
 
Hi Peter!

Who is Lederstienfeld? ........ lol

That could mean or would mean, if written like that: Ledersteinfeld = leather-stone-field.....???

But Lederstiefel means: leatherboot (das Leder = the leather, der Stiefel = the boot)

But back to more interesting things!

Don't you are afraid of getting less whites again when washing with low water-levels again in your MIELE?
Since we know about the influence of the amount of wash-water, we always let the machine fill with the delicates/woollens-cycle and switch to the regular-cycle after that.
Additional I have to say, that in case the machine is a new MIELE, the engineer can programme the machine to higher water-levels with a note-book! Ask for it!

Finally I always come back to my Twinnies again - best machines ever built! They are very economical, very thorough, absolutely fast plus stunningly versatile and always easy to repair! What do I need more? It's really a shame that they are no longer to be built here in Europe!!!

Ralf
 

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