beekeyknee
Well-known member
Sorry. That really didn't fit the thread. Just an alternative.
Americans Purchasing European Detergents - Henkel Has Sniffed Us Out
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passatdoc
Well-known member
Ariel = Tide HE?
Launderess, I knew both were P&G products, but the UK-purchased Ariel I bring back home from European trips seems to outperform Tide HE powder purchased in the US. Are they really the formulation, or is Ariel/Omo/Skip/Via simply the flagship P&G product in Europe (but with a different formulation than Tide). Tide and Gain HE powder give satisfactory results in my Frig 2140, but Ariel works better and Henkel Persil works the best of all (better results with less powder used).
Launderess, I knew both were P&G products, but the UK-purchased Ariel I bring back home from European trips seems to outperform Tide HE powder purchased in the US. Are they really the formulation, or is Ariel/Omo/Skip/Via simply the flagship P&G product in Europe (but with a different formulation than Tide). Tide and Gain HE powder give satisfactory results in my Frig 2140, but Ariel works better and Henkel Persil works the best of all (better results with less powder used).
Persil (in the UK and Ireland), Skip (France and Spain and a few other places) are Unillever's top of the line detergents. Nothing to do with P&G.
Persil (UK/IRL) and Skip (F) seem to be pretty much identical products.
P&G's top of the line in Europe are Ariel and in some markets Dash or Tide.
Persil (UK/IRL) and Skip (F) seem to be pretty much identical products.
P&G's top of the line in Europe are Ariel and in some markets Dash or Tide.
rolls_rapide
Well-known member
mrx, you forgot OMO - Unilever's top of the line in Austria, Scandinavia, Central and Eastern Europe and Turkey. However, in two countries where Skip is the TOL brand (France, Greece), OMO is the budget brand.
I agree with you: OMO, Skip, Persil are absolutely the same product with different brand name.
Regarding Tide. As far as I know, there's no European country where Tide is top of the lineq equal to Ariel. P&G sells Tide in Central and Eastern Europe (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, former Yugoslavia, etc.; in Poland Tide formulation is sold under the brand name Vizir), Russia, Ukraine and Portugal. In Central and Eastern European countries and Russia Tide is in the middle, between Ariel and Bonux. So it is middle of the line. Bonux is budget brand similar to UK Daz.
I'm not sure about Portuguese Tide, even though I have one box in my collection, but it's formulation is the same as Italian Ace, so I guess it's again middle of the line.
Eastern European Tide:
http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b...576/Tide%20Alpine%20Fresh%202011_01_Front.JPG
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oWO6IeXyhJc/T2tjVI8N_PI/AAAAAAAABU4/pf_1Oqgf3ic/s576/P1000839.JPG
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0OPYxOHWjh4/UZ0ZV_oG99I/AAAAAAAACkE/nqZYiW3E_0o/s576/P1010637.JPG
Portuguese Tide:
I agree with you: OMO, Skip, Persil are absolutely the same product with different brand name.
Regarding Tide. As far as I know, there's no European country where Tide is top of the lineq equal to Ariel. P&G sells Tide in Central and Eastern Europe (Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, former Yugoslavia, etc.; in Poland Tide formulation is sold under the brand name Vizir), Russia, Ukraine and Portugal. In Central and Eastern European countries and Russia Tide is in the middle, between Ariel and Bonux. So it is middle of the line. Bonux is budget brand similar to UK Daz.
I'm not sure about Portuguese Tide, even though I have one box in my collection, but it's formulation is the same as Italian Ace, so I guess it's again middle of the line.
Eastern European Tide:
http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-b...576/Tide%20Alpine%20Fresh%202011_01_Front.JPG
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oWO6IeXyhJc/T2tjVI8N_PI/AAAAAAAABU4/pf_1Oqgf3ic/s576/P1000839.JPG
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0OPYxOHWjh4/UZ0ZV_oG99I/AAAAAAAACkE/nqZYiW3E_0o/s576/P1010637.JPG
Portuguese Tide:
Loading…
lh6.googleusercontent.com
mich
Well-known member
kenmoreguy89
Well-known member
Maybe....I say maybe...what they write it's not only meant for detergents, the Henkel produce several products for carpentry also, glues etc..... and a wide range of chemicals for every use...
My understanding is that Henkel's european detergents would be anyway sold within the USA and it is from awhile, not strictly privately imported...
the same way are american products sold in Europe, especially american Tide...
In the USA Henkel labelled detergents are not sold in the "regular" market if not ones under the name of their subsidiary company (Dial corporation part of Henkel North America)... you find so detergents of the Dial Company, the american subsidiary of the Henkel, that owns historical brands like fels naphta or 20 Mule Team...
IMO pretty sad that germans bought historical brands like this....but what can you do about it?
Anyway....I'm not pretty surprised that Henkel so the Dial Company didn't see a business in this, I mean, like others could start producing a second brand of Detergent than Purex, so Persil....but maybe it's because as I think they have agreements with Miele to keep giving the illusion of it of something "exclusive" you can't find just everywhere..something so particular and so special.. the same way they claim and advertise their machines...LOL
Then, the people buying Persil are not that much anyway.....and the launch of a new product maybe would not even give that much of market share....so they keep things as they're..
Henkel started now producing Persil in Mexico with a large advertisement, even if there already have several brands that goes pretty well such Viva and 123.......not sure if Mexican persil it's the same stuff of the European/German one...gotta try it..
But like P&G products in europe even of the same brands they change from country to country (example Ariel sold in Croatia or eatsern europe is different than German or Spanish one).... but who knows..it may be just the same european formula..
My thought is that it is not much strange that they wrote that, I mean, if we analyze the situation......
In the USA Persil is now sold in the Miele Dealers and is sold from awhile in shops specialized in importing european foods and products, and the reason of it is pretty simple...I mean, henkel is the largest european detergent maker, and you could find Persil or it's equivalent pretty much in every country of the EC....
Other "famous/common" europewide brands you can find elsewhere are yes found in certain countries only, but in the summary are all made by american companies, so P&G or Unilever etc...
So it is normal that european shops in USA prefer to carry an authentic european detergent from the Henkel (an european german company) rather than a P&G (or any other american) one, even if fully meant and formulated differently for european market, this to keep the idea and meaning of the shop so the european authenticity of the products they sell.... for example you can find it in the many shops such as Zabar's in NYC or others, and the same way all around the USA.
Then as I said, Henkel Persil or it's equivalents are sold pretty much europewide, in the USA having a way larger importation of european ( Henkel) detergents because of many reasons (including the way larger territory and quantity of eruopean stuff shops that sell detergents along the rest of products), than it is in europe for american ones, that's normal they "sniffed-out" and calls themselves out from any activity that involve them and their "european" products sold (even in a very minimal occasional part) in a market they didn't directly want to enter to...
This also may include the use of ingredients now banned in certain US states, such as phosphates, or any safety labelling matter etc....
[this post was last edited: 9/28/2013-19:00]
My understanding is that Henkel's european detergents would be anyway sold within the USA and it is from awhile, not strictly privately imported...
the same way are american products sold in Europe, especially american Tide...
In the USA Henkel labelled detergents are not sold in the "regular" market if not ones under the name of their subsidiary company (Dial corporation part of Henkel North America)... you find so detergents of the Dial Company, the american subsidiary of the Henkel, that owns historical brands like fels naphta or 20 Mule Team...
IMO pretty sad that germans bought historical brands like this....but what can you do about it?
Anyway....I'm not pretty surprised that Henkel so the Dial Company didn't see a business in this, I mean, like others could start producing a second brand of Detergent than Purex, so Persil....but maybe it's because as I think they have agreements with Miele to keep giving the illusion of it of something "exclusive" you can't find just everywhere..something so particular and so special.. the same way they claim and advertise their machines...LOL
Then, the people buying Persil are not that much anyway.....and the launch of a new product maybe would not even give that much of market share....so they keep things as they're..
Henkel started now producing Persil in Mexico with a large advertisement, even if there already have several brands that goes pretty well such Viva and 123.......not sure if Mexican persil it's the same stuff of the European/German one...gotta try it..
But like P&G products in europe even of the same brands they change from country to country (example Ariel sold in Croatia or eatsern europe is different than German or Spanish one).... but who knows..it may be just the same european formula..
My thought is that it is not much strange that they wrote that, I mean, if we analyze the situation......
In the USA Persil is now sold in the Miele Dealers and is sold from awhile in shops specialized in importing european foods and products, and the reason of it is pretty simple...I mean, henkel is the largest european detergent maker, and you could find Persil or it's equivalent pretty much in every country of the EC....
Other "famous/common" europewide brands you can find elsewhere are yes found in certain countries only, but in the summary are all made by american companies, so P&G or Unilever etc...
So it is normal that european shops in USA prefer to carry an authentic european detergent from the Henkel (an european german company) rather than a P&G (or any other american) one, even if fully meant and formulated differently for european market, this to keep the idea and meaning of the shop so the european authenticity of the products they sell.... for example you can find it in the many shops such as Zabar's in NYC or others, and the same way all around the USA.
Then as I said, Henkel Persil or it's equivalents are sold pretty much europewide, in the USA having a way larger importation of european ( Henkel) detergents because of many reasons (including the way larger territory and quantity of eruopean stuff shops that sell detergents along the rest of products), than it is in europe for american ones, that's normal they "sniffed-out" and calls themselves out from any activity that involve them and their "european" products sold (even in a very minimal occasional part) in a market they didn't directly want to enter to...
This also may include the use of ingredients now banned in certain US states, such as phosphates, or any safety labelling matter etc....
[this post was last edited: 9/28/2013-19:00]
Did Not Meant To Imply P&G's Ariel Is Totally The Same
As USA Tide, just that in markets where P&G does not sell Tide, Ariel is often their TOL offering.
Performance wise would say historically neither had much to do with the other. Ariel in Europe is sold for front loaders, and Tide in the USA for the most part was a high dilution product meant for top loading washing machines.
The initial offerings of Tide "HE" were not much different from normal Tide including still creating tons of froth if not dosed properly. However recently offerings of "HE" detergents from P&G in the USA seem to have benefited from their experience in the EU. It is like all of a sudden some bright blub realized that "hey, we've been making "HE" detergents all long in Europe....".
Actilift is an example of P&G laundry technology that made it to both sides of the pond (Ariel and Tide had it), as well as the "pod" development
Both Ariel and Tide also offered a variety of in wash stain removers, (powder, liquid, and now pods).
Cannot speak of Tide HE powder since one hasn't tried it in ages. However as stated above find the two liquids very good performers indeed. They both remove stains that Ariel Excel Gel with "Actilift" did not.
As USA Tide, just that in markets where P&G does not sell Tide, Ariel is often their TOL offering.
Performance wise would say historically neither had much to do with the other. Ariel in Europe is sold for front loaders, and Tide in the USA for the most part was a high dilution product meant for top loading washing machines.
The initial offerings of Tide "HE" were not much different from normal Tide including still creating tons of froth if not dosed properly. However recently offerings of "HE" detergents from P&G in the USA seem to have benefited from their experience in the EU. It is like all of a sudden some bright blub realized that "hey, we've been making "HE" detergents all long in Europe....".
Actilift is an example of P&G laundry technology that made it to both sides of the pond (Ariel and Tide had it), as well as the "pod" development
Both Ariel and Tide also offered a variety of in wash stain removers, (powder, liquid, and now pods).
Cannot speak of Tide HE powder since one hasn't tried it in ages. However as stated above find the two liquids very good performers indeed. They both remove stains that Ariel Excel Gel with "Actilift" did not.
Ariel / Tide
Although from the same company you simply cannot compare Ariel powder (normal or with actilift etc) with Ariel gel - the gel was introduced as a new funky laundry newbie to see if people would switch from other brands, NOT to switch people from Ariel powders.....consumers having used powder and trying the gel soon found out the difference, I use gel for everyday quick or refresh washers, its great smells fresh and does the job - but for normal to heavy then bring out the standard -Ariel or Persil bio powders.
I once asked the question when your Tide HE powder was being introduced " Why have we not seen Tide marketed in the UK, the answer - besides it being from the same stable (why would you introduce your OWN competition) the formulations are very different (as we know) Ariel, bio powder used in small amounts of water with profile staged heating washes and low suds.....Tide as stated above high dilution product, quick wash times and and in cooler fixed temp washes...okay so far!!
"BUT, we couldnt get EU certification on the current formulation of the product? WHY I asked, "its because of the high metalergic content - the EU simply wouldnt allow it"........
It would be interesting to compare if the latest version of HE Tide are more aligned to Ariel as of!!
But in the end any powder / detergent / additives is subject to the lowest common denominator - the human interface - because even if the best powder is chosen you still have to sort, load and select the best wash programme for your washing machine and correct quantity of detergent to get a clean fresh and rinsed line of laundry...
Although from the same company you simply cannot compare Ariel powder (normal or with actilift etc) with Ariel gel - the gel was introduced as a new funky laundry newbie to see if people would switch from other brands, NOT to switch people from Ariel powders.....consumers having used powder and trying the gel soon found out the difference, I use gel for everyday quick or refresh washers, its great smells fresh and does the job - but for normal to heavy then bring out the standard -Ariel or Persil bio powders.
I once asked the question when your Tide HE powder was being introduced " Why have we not seen Tide marketed in the UK, the answer - besides it being from the same stable (why would you introduce your OWN competition) the formulations are very different (as we know) Ariel, bio powder used in small amounts of water with profile staged heating washes and low suds.....Tide as stated above high dilution product, quick wash times and and in cooler fixed temp washes...okay so far!!
"BUT, we couldnt get EU certification on the current formulation of the product? WHY I asked, "its because of the high metalergic content - the EU simply wouldnt allow it"........
It would be interesting to compare if the latest version of HE Tide are more aligned to Ariel as of!!
But in the end any powder / detergent / additives is subject to the lowest common denominator - the human interface - because even if the best powder is chosen you still have to sort, load and select the best wash programme for your washing machine and correct quantity of detergent to get a clean fresh and rinsed line of laundry...
Ariel / Tide
Although from the same company you simply cannot compare Ariel powder (normal or with actilift etc) with Ariel gel - the gel was introduced as a new funky laundry newbie to see if people would switch from other brands, NOT to switch people from Ariel powders.....consumers having used powder and trying the gel soon found out the difference, I use gel for everyday quick or refresh washers, its great smells fresh and does the job - but for normal to heavy then bring out the standard -Ariel or Persil bio powders.
I once asked the question when your Tide HE powder was being introduced " Why have we not seen Tide marketed in the UK, the answer - besides it being from the same stable (why would you introduce your OWN competition) the formulations are very different (as we know) Ariel, bio powder used in small amounts of water with profile staged heating washes and low suds.....Tide as stated above high dilution product, quick wash times and and in cooler fixed temp washes...okay so far!!
"BUT, we couldnt get EU certification on the current formulation of the product? WHY I asked, "its because of the high metalergic content - the EU simply wouldnt allow it"........
It would be interesting to compare if the latest version of HE Tide are more aligned to Ariel as of!!
But in the end any powder / detergent / additives is subject to the lowest common denominator - the human interface - because even if the best powder is chosen you still have to sort, load and select the best wash programme for your washing machine and correct quantity of detergent to get a clean fresh and rinsed line of laundry...
Although from the same company you simply cannot compare Ariel powder (normal or with actilift etc) with Ariel gel - the gel was introduced as a new funky laundry newbie to see if people would switch from other brands, NOT to switch people from Ariel powders.....consumers having used powder and trying the gel soon found out the difference, I use gel for everyday quick or refresh washers, its great smells fresh and does the job - but for normal to heavy then bring out the standard -Ariel or Persil bio powders.
I once asked the question when your Tide HE powder was being introduced " Why have we not seen Tide marketed in the UK, the answer - besides it being from the same stable (why would you introduce your OWN competition) the formulations are very different (as we know) Ariel, bio powder used in small amounts of water with profile staged heating washes and low suds.....Tide as stated above high dilution product, quick wash times and and in cooler fixed temp washes...okay so far!!
"BUT, we couldnt get EU certification on the current formulation of the product? WHY I asked, "its because of the high metalergic content - the EU simply wouldnt allow it"........
It would be interesting to compare if the latest version of HE Tide are more aligned to Ariel as of!!
But in the end any powder / detergent / additives is subject to the lowest common denominator - the human interface - because even if the best powder is chosen you still have to sort, load and select the best wash programme for your washing machine and correct quantity of detergent to get a clean fresh and rinsed line of laundry...
I wonder
I wonder if detergent manufacturers purposely want it so that we stick to our own detergents and use more of them in each wash (obviously
)
I am in the UK, Ariel is our TOL detergent from P&G and Persil is TOL from Unilever (as far as I know, there is NO Henkel detergent on the UK Market)
But I love USA Tide (Tide was withdrawn from the UK Market in the 1970's) but I find with Tide, I don't need to use anywhere near as much as the box states, or anywhere near as much as I would normally use with Ariel or Persil - or any other UK detergent.
So find it interesting when an American uses a European detergent, they don't use as much as their home detergents - we may all be being tricked into using more detergent than we need - maybe all US should buy European and European all buy US - we all wouldn't use as much
Also, isn't US Purex (another detergent I love the scent of) a Henkel detergent? Isn't that the equivalent of Henkel's Persil? I've never used Henkel Persil, as our UK Persil is Unilever.
I wonder if detergent manufacturers purposely want it so that we stick to our own detergents and use more of them in each wash (obviously
)I am in the UK, Ariel is our TOL detergent from P&G and Persil is TOL from Unilever (as far as I know, there is NO Henkel detergent on the UK Market)
But I love USA Tide (Tide was withdrawn from the UK Market in the 1970's) but I find with Tide, I don't need to use anywhere near as much as the box states, or anywhere near as much as I would normally use with Ariel or Persil - or any other UK detergent.
So find it interesting when an American uses a European detergent, they don't use as much as their home detergents - we may all be being tricked into using more detergent than we need - maybe all US should buy European and European all buy US - we all wouldn't use as much
Also, isn't US Purex (another detergent I love the scent of) a Henkel detergent? Isn't that the equivalent of Henkel's Persil? I've never used Henkel Persil, as our UK Persil is Unilever.
"BUT, we couldnt get EU certification on the current for
ChesterMike, is that comment relating to current Tide HE?
If the EU wouldn't allow it, is it safe to use? I have a big 102 wash box of Tide HE powder and a 96 wash bottle of Tide HE liquid?
Thanks
Liam
ChesterMike, is that comment relating to current Tide HE?
If the EU wouldn't allow it, is it safe to use? I have a big 102 wash box of Tide HE powder and a 96 wash bottle of Tide HE liquid?
Thanks
Liam
Thing About Ariel "Excel" Gels
Is they are very concentrated an unforgiving if overdosed. Barely 15ml in the dosing cap can cause froth sensations in the Miele.
For the first time actually got to see how the Ariel dosing ball and product work when used in the AEG. My Miele has a solid door while the Lavamat has glass porthole. Was interesting to see that it does take awhile for all the gel to dispense out of that cup. This of course could be a reflection of the low water levels used in the Lavamat, but one was getting worried that not all of the product would come out before wash was over.
Is they are very concentrated an unforgiving if overdosed. Barely 15ml in the dosing cap can cause froth sensations in the Miele.
For the first time actually got to see how the Ariel dosing ball and product work when used in the AEG. My Miele has a solid door while the Lavamat has glass porthole. Was interesting to see that it does take awhile for all the gel to dispense out of that cup. This of course could be a reflection of the low water levels used in the Lavamat, but one was getting worried that not all of the product would come out before wash was over.
Here's another thing.
Why do all European detergents have to pack such a powerful whiff? Remember purchasing detergent powders in Paris during an extended stay in the 1990s. IIRC it was Le Chat and had a wonderful light fragrance. Well today's offering quite bowl one over often with very strong perfumes that never seem to go away.
Shirts laundered in Ariel "Alpine Fraiche" still pack a scent punch days after being ironed and hung up.
Why do all European detergents have to pack such a powerful whiff? Remember purchasing detergent powders in Paris during an extended stay in the 1990s. IIRC it was Le Chat and had a wonderful light fragrance. Well today's offering quite bowl one over often with very strong perfumes that never seem to go away.
Shirts laundered in Ariel "Alpine Fraiche" still pack a scent punch days after being ironed and hung up.
Scent of EU detergents
Not sure Laundress, but think you're completely right - with the handful of US detergents I have used and reading comments on AW from members from all over the US, it seems that UK/all EU detergents are stronger scented.
I think there is more emphasis on the scent ability of detergents over here, it must just be what the detergent manufacturers think we like over here.
Some detergents in the UK are advertised solely on their scent properties (and have a range of scents). Funnily enough, Ariel is always advertised on cleaning and stain removing power, can't recall it's scent being mentioned in last few years, although, may still be strong compared to a US detergent.
I've linked, a said advert.
Not sure Laundress, but think you're completely right - with the handful of US detergents I have used and reading comments on AW from members from all over the US, it seems that UK/all EU detergents are stronger scented.
I think there is more emphasis on the scent ability of detergents over here, it must just be what the detergent manufacturers think we like over here.
Some detergents in the UK are advertised solely on their scent properties (and have a range of scents). Funnily enough, Ariel is always advertised on cleaning and stain removing power, can't recall it's scent being mentioned in last few years, although, may still be strong compared to a US detergent.
I've linked, a said advert.
Scent of EU detergents
Not sure Laundress, but think you're completely right - with the handful of US detergents I have used and reading comments on AW from members from all over the US, it seems that UK/all EU detergents are stronger scented.
I think there is more emphasis on the scent ability of detergents over here, it must just be what the detergent manufacturers think we like over here.
Some detergents in the UK are advertised solely on their scent properties (and have a range of scents). Funnily enough, Ariel is always advertised on cleaning and stain removing power, can't recall it's scent being mentioned in last few years, although, may still be strong compared to a US detergent.
I've linked, a said advert.
Not sure Laundress, but think you're completely right - with the handful of US detergents I have used and reading comments on AW from members from all over the US, it seems that UK/all EU detergents are stronger scented.
I think there is more emphasis on the scent ability of detergents over here, it must just be what the detergent manufacturers think we like over here.
Some detergents in the UK are advertised solely on their scent properties (and have a range of scents). Funnily enough, Ariel is always advertised on cleaning and stain removing power, can't recall it's scent being mentioned in last few years, although, may still be strong compared to a US detergent.
I've linked, a said advert.
Sudsy detergents
Yes, also agree on Ariel being sudsy, generally all UK P&G detergents tend to be a lot more sudsy than Unilever or other manufacturers. Ariel especially so. That's why Ariel probably say your clothes are stain guarded, as it never leaves your clothes
Yes, also agree on Ariel being sudsy, generally all UK P&G detergents tend to be a lot more sudsy than Unilever or other manufacturers. Ariel especially so. That's why Ariel probably say your clothes are stain guarded, as it never leaves your clothes
mich
Well-known member
Part of me...
Has sorta wanted a scent that could go from the washer, to the dryer, and actually be able to smell it afterwards, but I gave up that hope from American Offerings
Maybe I should try Gain...
http://
Has sorta wanted a scent that could go from the washer, to the dryer, and actually be able to smell it afterwards, but I gave up that hope from American Offerings
Maybe I should try Gain...
http://
Another ad
Now interesting, Australia's version of the ad (whilst almost in an identical format) makes a slight reference to stain removing, whereas the UK one does not. But the ad still ends on scent with "smell the clean" as opposed to see the clean.
Now interesting, Australia's version of the ad (whilst almost in an identical format) makes a slight reference to stain removing, whereas the UK one does not. But the ad still ends on scent with "smell the clean" as opposed to see the clean.
Scent
Mich, I'm in the UK, but I can get that with USA Tide HE powder or Liquid with Downy April Fresh, I use half of what the box says and still get scent, but I do use a FL which of course is less water. I wonder, is it not the detergent, but a lot of water diluting the scent? Could be wrong, as of course there is non HE detergents designed for more water.
Another option, is to try and get some UK stuff, especially fabric softeners like Lenor or Comfort (your Downy and Snuggle, respectively) some of them are that strong, you can smell them 6 months or more after in the wardrobe
Mich, I'm in the UK, but I can get that with USA Tide HE powder or Liquid with Downy April Fresh, I use half of what the box says and still get scent, but I do use a FL which of course is less water. I wonder, is it not the detergent, but a lot of water diluting the scent? Could be wrong, as of course there is non HE detergents designed for more water.
Another option, is to try and get some UK stuff, especially fabric softeners like Lenor or Comfort (your Downy and Snuggle, respectively) some of them are that strong, you can smell them 6 months or more after in the wardrobe
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