Another score for the "summer home"

[rickr]

Remember the house I bought for $3500.00?

It had hot water heat that was installed in the early 1970's. Prior to that, it had forced air gas heat. All the radiators burst, so the heating system was ruined. I wanted to reinstall gas forced air heating with central air conditioning.

Here is what I bought this week for $600.00

 

[rickr]

.

This is a 90% efficent furnace, and it is only 5 years old. It came from a house on the west side of the city that was going to be demolished to build a Target Store. I purchased it from a small company that recycles old homes. Usually they only deal in older items for classic homes such as trim, doors, woodwork, ect. However, due to the recent changes in our economy, they have expanded to include good recycled items like this for newer homes.

 

[rickr]

.

Compressor unit is a 2 ton unit, and the heating system is 45,000 BTU. This is the correct size to use in my other home.

I'm happy as hell! I thought converting this house back to forced air heat, and adding the a/c was going to cost me several thousand dollars!

 

[rickr]

.

close up of a/c evaporator.

 

[revvinkevin]

Wow Rick, that is AWESOME!!!!!

That's one helluva deal on that HVAC equipment you got there! Is the A/C portion a high enough "tonnage" for your house? (or perhaps too much?) Either way it's STILL a great deal!

I look forward to photos a the house progresses!

Kevin

 

[ttuee2006]

Ruud/Rheem is the greatest brand IMHO. We have them in our office building (4 of them), 2 at my parents's house, and 1 in my house here. We have NEVER had a single problem with ANY of them. They're just painfully simple and run forever. Only 1 unit has ever needed a charge since 1996. Talk about reliability! Here in Texas it commonly gets over 100˚ in the summer, so those units get quite a workout. They just don't go down without a fight!

 

[rickr]

Thank you Kevin!

Eric it is good to know what the quality is for Ruud. I have not heard of that company, so I was not sure of the quality. I was sure of the price however! lol!

 

[58limited]

I second that

These units are great! My RUUD A/C was 10 years old when I replaced it last week - due to salt water exposure from hurricane Ike. It was still running strong but the insurance adjuster and my A/C man both said to replace it. The unit was a 10 seer unit. I replaced it with a Rheem 14 SEER - the max SEER rating that the existing evaporator is compatible with according to my A/C guy, who is my boss's son. It is so quiet that I can't hear it run unless I go out the back door.

The house's original RUUD water heater from 1936/7 is still working too - it has a monel tank.

 

[rickr]

As long as we were over there anyway...

We decided to remove the boiler from the utlity room and put it out in the garage for now.

I also bought a recycled 200 amp electical service box, complete with all the breakers for $50.00.

Dan is doing the demolition work, but has only been over a couple days last week. The floors are torn out,except for the kitchen, and the walls in the bathroom are torn out. Still have some demoliton to do yet, before we can think about putting the house back together. IN our struggle to get the boiler out of the house, (boy that M/F was heavy!) I forgot to take pixs of the demolition work, or the electical box.

At any rate, here is Budder, disconnecting the boiler with my instructions. (yes the power shut off to this circuit, and yes the water and gas are shut off)

 

[rickr]

BTW: This house has a Ruud water heater that was installed before I bought the house. I was afraid that it may have frozen and cracked, but when I opened the valve at the bottom of the tank, the water ran out for several minutes. I am hoping that the tank is ok, so I can use it. I am thinking it is ok, so we will try it out when the plumbing is installed.

 

[rickr]

We stuck the boiler in the garage.

Don't know if the dude that has the recycling company will want it or not, but I will check. Perhaps he will give me some credit for it. Never hurts to ask, so we put it out in the garage for now. It looks brand new!

 

[toggleswitch2]

What a score!

AFAIK RUUD/RHEEM is a builder's grade brand. But I know of no complaints.

a ton= 12,000 BTUs
IIRC the rule of thumb is 20 BTUs/ square foot for cooling.

For electric "resistance" heat the rule of thumb is 10 watts per square foot*. (Assuming a normal ceilinng height. (circa 8 fgeet).Since there are 3.4 BTUs per watt, that equates to 34 BTU's per square foot for heating.

*for rooms with extra tall, vaulted or cathedaral ceilings 1 watt per cubic foot is generally used.

Of course these vary by climate, insualtion level, construction techiques, the existatnce of occupied dwelling space above and or below, etc. THESE ARE ONLY VERY ROUGH GUIDES.

 

[Cybrvanr]

I would say try and sell that boiler on Craigslist or something...you could get enough money back on that boiler to pay for the forced air system....that was a good find! Awesome!!!

I've always been right partial to the RUUD and Rheem water heaters. We have a few local plumbers around that swear by them. The one in my house has to be over 30 years old, and with some new elements in it, is going strong! I still want to replace it though, primarily because it is not very efficient, and could use better insulation.

A 2-ton unit ought to be perfect for that house. My house is 1000 square feet, and it has to deal with the humid Virginia summers, and it does so just fine. I would say upsize a half-ton for a heat pump to what works well for a air conditioner, and just cut the fan back...the heating can sometimes bee more of a challenge. I can't remember how many square feet that house had, but it looks to be about the same as my house. Your gas furnace though is the perfect size for this house to keep it plenty cozy, especially if you install new windows and insulation. Is the ductwork already in place? If so, you are a good ways there, but make sure you check it for leaks. Ductwork leaks can cost a fortune in lost energy! If not, then you may end up having to pay some money to have some "tin monkeys"(HVAC ductwork guys) to come in and build some ductwork for you if you are not familiar with building it yourself (it's not hard really, just labor intensive)

Good luck with the house there, looks like it's really coming together awesome! Having central air on the house will be a good selling point no matter if you rent or sell!

BTW, I hope you saved those cool kitchen countertops with the chrome edges!

 

[petek]

That boiler is brand new... geeze. Mines a 1958 model and still boiling.

 

[toggleswitch2]

And for everyone out there with hydronic (hot-water)heat. Do yourselves a favor and have your heating contractor add a check-valve and antifreeze to the system. Should there be a blackout, lack of fuel or any other reason for a freezing home, your pipes and boiler won't freeze and burst/crack.

Look at the mess the ice storms made resulting in many areas being without power (which controls oil and gas heat; meaning there won't be any) for weeks on end.

 

[tolivac]

You got a SUPER deal on that RUUD HVAC unit!My Moms house in Florida had two of those and one lasted over 20yrs without any problems--she replaced it with another RUUD unit.I had one as well.nice units.Mine was also a heat pump-worked well in the NC climate.All the units you bought look in remarkable condition for their age.Good luck with it.will be MUCH less hassle than the old system.My Mothers Fla units were heat pumps too and worked well for her in the Fla winters.

 

[toggleswitch2]

~I would say try and sell that boiler on Craigslist or something.

It may be cracked/leaky.

 

[toggleswitch2]

... and be carefu pressure testing it. In normal operation it only gets 10 to 15 psi, not full tap pressure!

 

[iheartmaytag]

RUUD Units are extremely good

They are made by Rheem, and at the time we bought were the highest efficentcy units made.

The only thing, at least in our area, you may wan to put a security fencing around the outside unit as Ruud has all copper tubing which is very attractive to metal thieves

 

[gansky1]

Awesome deal, Rick. I had a RuuD a/c in one of my townhouses. It looked identical to yours but was a little older. They made a terrible mess putting it in as the lines had to be run through the ceiling about 25 feet, but it worked perfectly and was very quiet.

I have a Carrier furnace and an ancient Bryant central a/c unit. The coil is newer (with the furnace) but that Bryant just keeps cooling like new. I had to spray-paint the top panel last spring as it was getting a bit rough but other than keeping the coils clean and oiling the fan motor, I've had no trouble with it. The HVAC guy across the street has forbidden it's replacement unless absolutely necessary. "You save no money replacing for 'more efficient' units." I think someone on the forum here said almost the same thing the other day. Dollars and cents, it all makes sense.

 

[goatfarmer]

Great deal, Rick. That "summer house" is really coming along.

 

[pturo]

My, your furnaces are so Ruud! Teach them some manners.

 

[rickr]

.

Thanks for the comments everyone! I am VERY happy with finding this equiptment, and for such a reasonable price!

There is ductwork in place in the house, but only down the walls from the attic. This unit will go in the utility room, instead of the attic where the origial furnace was located years ago. This furnace will have to be "plumbed" and I may just have new ducts put into the ceilings instead of hooking into the originals that run down into the walls from the attic. I will wait and see what the installer thinks is best.

Here is a couple pixs of the utility room.

 

[rickr]

.

Another angle of the same.

I will be looking for an older set of Maytags to put in here also. I will remove the cabinet next to the water heater, and the water heater may be relocated in the room to gain more space.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Rick:

Comfort levels will be much greater at a reduced utlity cost with warm air entering the residence near the floor. When set up this way, your return(s) will need to be high up on the wall(s) or in the ceiling at the hightest point in the residence. Good for heating and to facilitate cooling. If heat is to be delivered to each room via ceiling vents, then a return near the floor will be REQUIRED for comfort. The idea is to reduce stratification which means that warm air will naturally collect near the ceiling and cold air near the floor.
For greatest economy of installation I'm guessing warmed/cooled air will blow up via a new plenum and duct and be hooked into the existing ducts.

Gansky and others:
Efficiency of air conditioners measures the ability to cool (i.e. move heat "uphill" from less to more)with the least amount of power. (More BTUs per watt). However "inefficient" units tend to have smaller/ colder coils which dehumidify much better. In my area it's not the heat that is uncomfortable, it's the humidity.

So the total energy used used may not be (strictly) cooling directly but may be dehumdifying which helps one FEEL cooler, and yes even at higher temperatures. So, inefficienty furnaces/boilers waste a great deal of heat up the chimney.

Inneficient air-condtioners, however tend to dehumidfy which is NOT wasted energy. there is no need IMHO to toss an A/C just based on its "efficiency" (low EER).

 

[goatfarmer]

Rick, looks like you need a gas dryer, eh?

 

[rickr]

Hi Kenny, I have purchased a 200 amp service, so I was planning on an electric dryer.
Still don't know if I can use a set, or may have to go with a stacked set. Don't really want to have stackers, but may not have enough room. Have to wait and see what space the furnace takes up, ect. What do you have right now?

Hi Steve, there are existing vents half way up the walls in each room for the forced air. They ducts for those vents go all the way up to the attic. That is where the original furance was located. There are also small vents in each room at the baseboards, but these vents only vent from room to room, with no ductwork involved at all. In other words, the boaseboard vents are only "passways" from room to room. So the vents with ductwork are located halfway up the walls in each room. It was a very stupid way of installing vents, but thats the way this house was built. I think the house was built in the late 1930's early 1940's. Forced air heat still fairly new at that time. Most houses of this era still were using coal fired gravity heat. The original installer prolly did not know any better than to install the vents halfway up the walls. If there is room,I would like to install a humidifier on the furnace. Just have to wait and see.

 

[sudsmaster]

Toggs,

For heating, the best placement of both the warm air supply and the return(s) should be at floor level.

For cooling, the cool air supply should be high on walls or on ceiling, and the returns at ceiling level as well.

Or at least this is how it seems to me.

Placement of the air supply registers midway up the walls seems like a sort of compromise that will please nobody but might actually work out ok, but the return should be at floor level for heating and at ceiling level for cooling.

Or so it seems to me.

I remember living in a place where there was only heating (gas forced air) and the warm air supply was at ceiling level, and the return was near the floor. It wasn't particularly efficient but since the landlady paid the gas bill I didn't complain. She did, though, and I suggested maybe she could insulate the attic, which she never did.

Your mileage may vary.

Probably the most important thing in an older house is to make sure the ductwork is not leaky, and is insulated where it passes through non-conditioned spaces.

 

[toggleswitch2]

Yes, understood. For systems that *both* heat and cool:

In the north (heating seasong predomindates) the supply vents are to be low and returns high.

In the south (cooling season predominates) the vents are to be high and the returns low.

In those very very few places where one needs heating or cooling only (Alaska, south Florida, Puerto Rico) one can keep their vents and returns on the same level.

There are systems that have multiple retuns (i.e. one per room) both high and low. No manual intervention required.
Smaller homes may have one large low return and antoher high return. In these one retiurn grille may have a lever to open and close the shutters. So say the low return nearest the furnace would be closed in summer allowing the upper return to be the only one open (in summer).

My only original point ot Rick was that with the addtion of cooling the location of the returns may need to be reconfigured.

Clear as mud? *LOL*

 

[goatfarmer]

Nothing in a stack right now. I have a set of 80's Maytag's that I need to go through. Electric dryer, I know it needs a motor.