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Very suspicious performance from Ariel. Perhaps their powders have been dumbed down to make the pods/liquids/gels look to be better in comparison?

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, they seem hell bent on getting people converted to liquids, if not better pods.

We've ha the liquid capsule/pod on the market a lot longer than the US and still powders sell more.

You'd think they'd learn.
 
Some find it odd to have hot water even supplied to their ma

Agreed. Wouldn't give up the option for a hot water wash for anything.
 
"they seem hell bent on getting people converted to liquids, if not better pods."

They do. They must have lots of patents tied up in those.

Powders will be probably be well out of patents now. Even the 'smaller' detergent companies can produce powders of high quality these days.

Liquids are more polluting, according to the German consumer magazines. Probably far too easy to overdose too.

Hence the pods.

Charge a nice sum for each pre-measured dose... 'cos the customer can't be trusted to measure correctly.

Some might say that P&G probably rub their hands with glee at the prospect of customers bedazzled by the pods - and laugh all the way to the bank, to boot!
 
Starting with hot water wash from filling..

This is just wrong, totally wrong and even our great grandmothers and others knew this going way back.

All items worn near or in contact with human body will be contaminated with sebum/perspiration/body oils which are all protein based. If you want to get indelicate about things can add urine to that lot as well (undergarments alone hopefully).

In any event high temperatures will "cook" protein stains of all sorts ranging form body oils to blood and all in between. This is why laundry historically was always pre-soaked or pre-washed in cold, cool or lukewarm water before main wash with hot and certainly boiling water.

In Europe with various options for self heating washing machines ranging from electricity to gas early machines "Normal cottons/linens) cycle usually most always had a pre-wash before main wash cycle. Many machines would even heat pre-wash water by default to 30 degrees F. You could then cheat and start the wash with hot water if you had a decent supply and not worry about setting certain stains or soils.

In another thread in forum there is a vintage advert for a washing machine that says something like "why pay for heating water twice" or something. That machine had both hot and cold water connections and would fill with the former. Thus those who have combi-boilers or other means of ready hot water didn't have to rely upon cold fill and washer doing the heating. This made sense then, again if you happen to have a boiler or whatever near washer with lots of hot water just sitting there.

Newest EU directives regarding energy use have pretty much removed hot fill; nearly everything is cold only. This of course saves washing machine makers money because they only have the one connection.

Rationale for this being that as nearly from the start for European washing machines 208v to 240v or even in come cases 400v power is more than adequate to heat water in short amount of time, making hot fills not needed. More so since water consumption for wash cycles has been driven down to nearly wet wipe levels. Less water means less time and energy involved in heating.

Other benefit of this coupled with modern technology (fully computer controlled washing machines) is how is it is easy to get near perfect results. Washer's brain tells machine based upon cycle and or some other setting how high to heat water, what sort of profile to use and so forth.

Washer will start with cold, heat to whatever temp is chosen but maybe prolong period between 80F and 100F to allow enzymes to work better (famous "Stain" setting).

Many modern washers in at least EU have done away with pre-soak cycle, and pre-wash as part of "normal" is long gone. You can select it for heavily soiled and stained loads, but many washers between cold fill, stain button and washing profiles do well enough on normal.

When American housewives began moving to top loading automatics many practices of old that came with using wringer washers or doing the job by hand went by the boards. This included pre-soaking or washing laundry in cold water if hot or boiling was going to be main wash temp. Arrival of detergents (which are not deactivated by soils in ways soap is), meant many simply bunged things in machine and if "hot" wash was called for, that is what it started out as. This of course lead to aforementioned body soils being cooked into fabrics turning them yellow. Answer? Chlorine bleach!

American housewives and even some commercial laundries have long used chlorine bleach to cover a multitude of wash day sins.
 
State of Powder Detergents In USA

Really don't think P&G puts that much effort into Tide powder nowadays. Lord knows it is difficult to find as many supermarkets and shops have devoted nearly all shelf space to various liquid or pod formats. On the off chance you do find Tide or any other powder it is usually on lower shelf with only one or maybe to variants.

Liquid detergents more are more polluting IMHO. Just look at ingredient list for any liquid, gel, or pod detergent; it's long as your arm with often many suspect chemicals. That and by nature liquid products are loaded with preservatives to give them any sort of stable shelf life.

Think part of reason liquids are coming to dominate many markets is the rise of cool or cold water washing. It is possible to formulate powder detergents that will work well in cold water. But "cold" being defined as around 30 degrees C. At 20 degrees C or below things can get tricky.

Pods of course are taking over anyway it seems. They do offer a less messy way of using liquid format detergents. And there is the ease and portability many seem to like.
 
Yep charge a nice sum too, they sell them and they know that's the max amount of washes a consumer will get, so depending on pack size they know how often repeat purchases will be made.

There was an argument though (in the US) that since introduction of Pods, sales of detergent had actually gone down, they put it down to the fact as doses were premeasured the chance of happy pouring over dosing had gone so people weren't actually repeat purchasing as often, so what did they do - increased the amount of pods people were told to put in the wash!!

When they first come out in 2012, the advice was one and one pod only for any wash "tested with 900 wash cycle combinations" I think they spiel was. Now it's one, two or even three per wash.

In the U.K. they knew people wouldn't swallow this, so they max out at 2 (our machines are smaller) but have you noticed that on the adverts they are also eager to push that you can wash that last minute needed 1 item of clothing with 1 pod, what a waste.

Mr Alex so have they removed ALL oxygen bleach from Daz now then, I know it had been really reduced when it was changed to "whites&colours" (was put down to less than 5% from more than 15%) but did put know it had gone entirely.

Yes laundress in the last 10/15 possibly even 20 years I have known of only 2 machines launch with hot water fill, as rare as hens teeth. Would never give up powder, but do admit pods are handy despite their penchant for getting stuck in the door boot and taking ages to dissolve.
 
liamy1 - Unfortunately they've gotten rid of the oxygen bleach completely, I buy Daz Professional at a wholesaler that still has it though. I'm assuming the reason for getting rid of the oxygen bleach is to reduce the risk of colours fading and now relying entirely on phosphodiesterase. I might buy the whites & colours version when I run out of my Daz Pro just to see how well it performs
 
Mr Alex

Having tried Daz whites and colours I can testify that its utter shite.... I used max per cycle and with a pre wash it still left stains on white serviettes, When I have used the Ariel I have left I will see if I can get hold of any Daz Pro see if that works against Napoli sauce stains as even using Persil bio I had to add stain remover, I was a staunch Non bio person and it never failed keeping whites spot on but they changed it and it was as useless as Fairy Non Bio. I am on the look out for a powder that will clean without extra additives but it seems that its becoming hard to find.

Austin
 
Thanks Mr Alex!

I see on the info-pg site that 'Daz Ultra Whites' powder no longer exists. What are they playing at? Another example of a castrated detergent.

Procter & Gamble can go and take a running jump... right into the tide for all I care.

I think I'll stick to Lidl's Formil, which seems to wash consistently clean.

Austin: I find Formil is quite foamy too, and I have to restrict the millilitres to somewhere around 30ml - 45ml. Any more than that and I get half a drum full of suds.
 
"In the U.K. they knew people wouldn't swallow this, so they max out at 2 (our machines are smaller) but have you noticed that on the adverts they are also eager to push that you can wash that last minute needed 1 item of clothing with 1 pod, what a waste."

I would love to see the lovely mess of the item, when folk use a pod and the 14 or 15 minute quick wash. There's bound to be some undissolved portion of the pod stuck to the garment.
 
Pods... Ohh I don't like them.....

First and foremost if you pack washer tightly at start, then they won't dissolve well before everything settles down. This can lead to that plastic coating not fully dissolving (if ever) leaving bits of that substance and or even product clinging to wash. If one does not notice this before bunging whatever item is "stained" into dryer that plastic will be baked on.

Yes, pods along with tablets do have the unfortunate tendency to get trapped in boot. Sometimes subsequent tumbling and water will flush things into tub, others not. Part of problem IMHO is that washers use so little water nowadays that there just isn't that bit of extra that comes up the door during wash as of old. By time that happens machine is onto rinse cycles....

Have noticed P&G on both sides of pond now suggests in directions to place pod at bottom of tub before adding wash, this rather than as most do bung the thing in last on top before closing door.
 
I bought a bottle of Ariel Gel... The one with "Brrrilliant cleaning in cold water". There's nothing to indicate the 'Purezyme' concoction. For all I know, it could be stock a few months old.

The dosing cap has changed since I last bought it, several years ago. It is now two-part hard plastic throughout. They've ditched the soft pliable component. The edge of the dosing device is still sharp though. I didn't use the device.

Seems to clean okay, the fragrance seems agreeable.
 
Austin - Did it perform just as poor with added stain remover? I really like Daz Pro & Ariel Bio powder they usually get my whites really white. It would be interesting to see how well a powder with purezyme and oxygenated bleach performs
 
Pre-wash as part of a normal cycle in Europe is long gone. It’s usually a selected option and often only available on a single long cotton cycle. I can’t remember anyone using it in my lifetime. I don’t think the prewash section of the drawer of any machine I’ve seen being used was ever used. It’s one of those things that exists in theory but not in practice.

Miele is an outlier on this still adds it if you select “heavily soiled” on the W1 machines with twin dos, but it’s not something most people would use and it’s available across most (eg except wool and Quick wash cycles)

I’d say the majority of Europeans probably put everything on a Cottons 40°C cycle, and usually not the extremely long cycles that can sometimes be the default. Most machines have a time saver or short button that reduces it to la round 60 or 70 mins for the full cycle and it’s more than adequate for normal laundry.

You might use a delicates cycle for say your favourite shirts and t-shirts but I honestly think most people don’t pay that much attention. Loads of cycles on machines very likely never, or rarely get used.

Obviously the wool cycle is useful, but apart from that ? I’ve endless cycles for proofing sportswear abs all sorts of things I just can’t see myself using.

There isn’t all that much thought put in beyond close door and start machine.

Pods seem to work well in some machines and not in others. It’s very variable. Some machines will tend to fling them into the door seal boot no matter what you do with them, while others are perfectly fine with them.

Personally, I think auto dose will replace them in Europe over the next few years as more and more machines offer it.

For whatever reasons, the detergent makers seem to hate washing powder and I can’t speak for other places, but here in Ireland the shelf space given to powder has been shrinking rapidly over the last few years. I would say 80% or more of the space in most supermarkets is now pods and liquids, with powder consigned to the lower priority shelves and not really in focus.

If you went back to the 80s and 90s powder was very dominant with liquids being relatively niche and I don’t think they worked as well. If you look at all the older liquid ads here they were talking about how you should scrunch it into the stain to pretreat. I don’t think anyone ever did that. I don’t remember anyone ever pretreating laundry here. If it didn’t come out clean, they’d be rather annoyed with the product and there’s never really been any expectation that you should have to do any extra steps beyond just putting them into the drum, adding detergent and starting.

The main reason I remember liquid appearing in our house was some promotion or ad. Some bottle or Ariel, Persil, Bold or Wisk would come home and it would be found to be a load of hassle with disoenser balls that rattled around the drum and all of that and the result was it wouldn’t be bought again.

Liquids became a lot more effective since the early 2000s, but the dosing was still a pain in the rear as the machines are built with powder drawers by default.

Then along came pods an auto dosing and it suddenly became less hassle.

The single biggest complaints about powder here were always that it caused the machine drawer to become caked up and that required maintenance (even if only once every few months it’s still annoying) the other issue was it tends to spill on the floor land in the fabric softener compartment and generally be messy.

I know most of you probably use careful dosing. The average person doesn’t. Most people I know would just pour powder straight from an over sized box into the drawer and often fill it to the top, use an old tea cup or with liquids just take wild guesses at how much to put in and just pour a “dollop” (probably enough for about 3 washes) in at a time.

It’s the same with conditioner/softener. Most people seem to just pour an amount into the dispenser and not measure it. So if it’s extremely concentrated, they end up totally overdosing the load.

That’s why Pods are popular. People really are annoyed if they have to measure stuff. It’s laziness but that’s how people are.

If pods are going to be with us long term, it’s about time the manufactures just pot a pod pouch in the lifters or something like that to ensure they’re mixed in fully. It can’t be that difficult to just come up with some simple solution to it like that.
 
Ariel 'Stain Remover'

Made by Star Brands, under licence.

I wonder whether P&G are moving to 'modular' detergents, allowing the user to add or ignore the bleaching component as desired?

That might explain the bleachless Daz.

 
They could just be testing the market too. Little or no risk if they've no overheads.
 
The scientific background

<h1 class="heading-1 template-article__title template-article__title--image-led " style="box-sizing: inherit; font-size: 2.25rem; margin: 0px 0px 15px; line-height: 2.8125rem; color: #333333; font-family: Trasandina, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; caret-color: #333333; text-align: center;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Bacteria on seaweed makes laundry environmentally friendly</span></span></h1>
 

<span style="font-weight: normal; caret-color: #333333; color: #333333; font-family: open-sans, 'Open Sans', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 18px; text-align: center;">By studying how a seaweed keeps itself clean, researchers discovered an enzyme that breaks down the bond between clothing and difficult-to-remove body soils and odours.</span>

 


 

 

I would bet the reason they're not using the term PureZyme in the UK and Ireland market is the terror of enzymes and endless pushing of non-bio as somehow more natural.
 
Death knell for powder laundry detergents

Began once phosphates were removed. P&G along with others reformulated to use Zeolite, washing soda and other builders, but can be a bit of one step forward, and two back.

Zeolites are on environmental/tree hugger hit lists because of supposed difficulty if filtering out of waste water. Also too much of the stuff can lead to dusty looking colors and darks if they aren't rinsed properly.

Real game changer came when P&G launched liquid formulas of their top selling brand Tide/Ariel. It has been off to the races ever since.

It was well known that powders are better for clay based soils, and liquids oily/greasy sorts. Hence famous "ring around the collar" commercials for Wish detergent. In decades since 1970's nature of how most live in western and many eastern nations has changed. Less and less dirt on clothing is of the ground in clay based soils, and more is of body and other oily dirt sort.

Then you have the ever increasing push to turn down the dial... Powdered detergents can work well in cold water if properly formulated; but there is "cold" and there is cold water. At temps below 30C things can be tricky.

As more and more wash is of the color or dark nature prime reason for powders (at least in Europe) was their bleaching power has declined.

With addition of enzymes and ever increasing technology liquid format laundry products continue to up their game so use of bleach (oxygen or chlorine) isn't always necessary.

When you add to this ability to pre-treat with liquid detergents, things just get better. However with most modern TOL liquid/gel formats including pods that often isn't really necessary.







 
Unilever Persil Liquid back in 1988:

 



 

Advert is a bit cringe lol

 

 

Wisk (Unilever) was briefly around in this market too.

 

 

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