BD Rebuild

[114jwh]

So I decided to give the old basket drive a new lease on life....I cleaned it up, greased/oiled everything that should be and installed a new spin tube. One thing that came up however was that the bronze T-bearing would not fit into the bottom of the tube completely. I could force it but it would have been stuck there forever. I'm not sure if the spin tube was not designed to work with this very old style T-bearing, it was a manufacturing flaw or it just wasn't spec'd properly as it was an aftermarket part.

In any event I just lightly sanded the bore of the spin tube with a Dremel until it fit perfectly!

I've also taken a picture of the instructions that came with the NOS basket drive kit I bought in case anyone needed them in the future. Because this is the newer fast brake design going into a machine that had the old brake design there are a few modifications that need to be made when installing. The kit came with everything you need to modify.[this post was last edited: 7/20/2014-02:16]

 

[philr]

Hoover and GE!

That's interesting! 

 

[114jwh]

Now it was time to install new centerpost bearings/seals. Once I figured out how to use the bearing installation tool that part was pretty straight forward. The service manual calls for Rykon Grease #2 when you are installing the bearings but I hadn't ever heard of it. So what's the next best thing? Why not "Red & Tacky" #2 instead? It was grease, the description made it sound like an appropriate alternative and I had it sitting on my shelf already. Plus the red reminded me of strawberry pie and I'm probably kind of tacky so it seemed like an OK thing to do

The tough part for me was getting that top seal in place in the centerpost. The rubber is pretty easy to tear and you really have to bang it in. I did destroy one in trying to get it in.

I ended up using the hose end of a crevice tool from a vacuum as it was a perfect fit for the seal. I banged it lightly in with a hammer and eventually it cooperated and seated itself correctly. The crevice tool didn't fare so well and is now half as long as it used to be

So now that the motor, basket drive and gearcase and a brand new pump were all ready to go into the baseplate...

 

[114jwh]

Everything starting to go back together....Of course I was so excited I forget the belt and had to take things apart again

 

[114jwh]

All put back together and well, here it is!

 

[114jwh]

And it even spins too!

 

[114jwh]

It's actually a lot quieter than it comes across in the videos and much quieter than it was before. I've done about three loads so far and no problems but I know that doesn't mean there won't be.

I did run into two snags....when I initially water tested the outer tub it was leaking slowly out of one of the tub bolts. I had replaced these with the tub repair kit 76673, there wasn't any rust near any of the screw holes in the tub and they were tight so I don't really know what happened. I ended up taking it out, flipping the seal over and retightening and it hasn't dripped since. Strange...

I also noticed when I manually engaged the spin the agitator still rotated a bit. I'm just going to leave it as is as I think it may go away after everything has had a chance to work itself in a bit.

The pump did leak about three drops but I think it may have just been because it was new and the seals were still seating themselves as it didn't leak anymore after that.

Other than that everything seems to be all good!

Thanks to everyone for all your detailed posts in the past. They really helped me with this project.

 

[114jwh]

All done and back in place. I listed out all the parts that I used as it may help save someone the effort of locating the part numbers in the future:

285036 - Agitator Shaft
285134 - Centerpost Seal/Bearing Kit
383921 - Spin Tube
076673 - Tub Repair Kit (4 tub bolts and rubber washers)
383727 - Tub Grommet
085114 - Rubber Foot Pad (4)
014857 - Bearing Installer
350365 - 2 Port Pump
285672 - Agitator Spring/Seal Kit
383923 - Basket Drive Long (purchased but didn't end up using)
095089 - Transmission Cork Gasket (purchased but didn't end up using)
350211 - Agitator Drive Block (reused the old one so didn't end up using)
350243 - Agitator Stud

 

[combo52]

Impressive Rebuild

James you did a great job. I followed your rebuild thread but stayed out of the way as every time you ran into a problem you quickly figured out what to do about it. If this is your first BD rebuild you really aced it, I have rebuilt at least 100 or maybe many more WP build BD washers over the last 40 years.

You made good decisions about not changing the oil in the transmission and the need to change the transmission gasket, when there was a problem with the fit of the tee bearing etc. After all this is a washing-machine, not a jet plane that our life depends on and your rebuild could easily last nearly as long as the machine lasted originally if it has the same amount of use as it got originally.

If the water pump that you got was an aftermarket one the problem you described is all too common, I would try to find a new orignal stock FSP pump as you are likely to need it, luckily they are still around.

James you certainly have a lot of mechanical sense, what other types of things things have you worked on or rebuilt?

John L.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

James,

I'll echo what John said, VERY nicely done.

Several times during your updates I wanted to respond with something, but I kept telling myself "this guy doesn't need our help, he's doing just fine on his own!". Sounds like you consulted many archived posts --- way to go on that, I'm glad our old comments were useful!

I had to nod with supportive "Yep, been there and that has happened to me too" sort of acknowledgement in several of your updates. Now that you are all finished I'll mention a few:

- The impellers on new pumps don't rotate as freely as used pumps in many cases, though after some use they loosen up. I have noticed a couple new pumps drip a few drops of water when first used, especially if they were truly NOS and had sat on a shelf for many years. As in your case, its usually not a big deal. Both the 350365 2-port and the 350367 4-port are still being made in Brazil and imported to the U.S. for replacement parts.

- Your original spin tube was pretty ugly. I've had others like that and it really can be a battle of wills to get them out. If you do this sort of work again on another lucky machine, try turning or rotating the basket drive/spin tube back and fourth as you pull on it. That has always worked for me, and it also can allow you to skip the gym for a couple days afterward. This may work better on the fast-brake 1971 and newer machines. You are quite correct though, we usually do not see the bearing come out with the tube!!! I was surprised to see that.

- Getting the agitate cam bar back into place after a gearcase rebuild is not a fun job. Yes I've heard that there is or was a tool available, but I don't have it. My solution has been to pull up on the agitator shaft while holding the gearcase itself to the floor with my feet. Then a second person fishes the cam bar through the slots while I hold the shaft up. Its not the most elegant operation, but it has always worked for me. I used to have my Dad do the bar installation and I'd rebuild a couple gearcases at once and take them all to his house and do all the bar installations at the same time.

- Its neat that you had the original metal pump!! I have heard that the ports rot off, exactly as you experienced. I have rebuilt about 75 of these machines now, and never seen a metal pump. Did your pump bolts have the washers on them? They are needed with the plastic bodied pump.

- You are lucky that you were able to get all those parts, though you didn't mention if they were hard to find or easy. BDs were produced several years longer in Canada after they were discontinued in the U.S. Parts may be easier to come by up there? Finding an agitator shaft, spin tube, and complete basket drive is possible here, but they are no longer on every parts store's shelves.

- You mentioned that your original wash basket is worn. I think Paul / Turquoisedude had the same problem with his Inglis recently. If I recall, he painted it with a white coat of POR-15? That might be a solution for you if you wish to improve this later?

Anyway James, Like John, I'm very impressed. You did an exceptional job for your first BD overhaul!

Gordon

 

[turquoisedude]

Congratulations, James!!  What a cool washer and what a great job you've done!  

 

For the tub, the product Gordon made reference to is called 'Wite-Coat' made by the folks who make POR-15.  It's a bit pricey, not terrifically easy to work with (you do need to work fast) but it puts a rock-solid finish on a wash tub!  I've been using the '66 Inglis Sterling for a few months now with no signs of degradation or wear.  I'd definitely recommend it.   

 

Here's the before and after pictures of what 'Roger' Sterling's tub looked like:

 

 

[114jwh]

Thanks so much John and Gordon - I really appreciate it. I have to say that I read many archived posts that were a tremendous help throughout this project and most of them involved feedback and experience from both of you. You both have so much knowledge and myself and probably many others are grateful that you've taken the time to share it over the years.

John, I've actually rebuilt a few old outboard motors and other various things in the past but this was the first time for a washing machine. It probably took me a lot longer than it should have but like anything else it was a bit of a learning experience along the way. If I ever do it again I think I could get it done much quicker!

The pump was aftermarket so I will keep an eye out for an FSP.. What I would love to also do is get my hands on a diverter valve to add the suds saver. The function is built into the timer so it's just a matter of adding the hardware and a few changes under the hood.

Gordon, I was lucky in that I know someone in the parts industry that was able to get me most of the parts that I listed. They were aftermarket so some do seem to require slight retrofitting here and there due to the very specific tolerances involved but I found the quality to be on par with the original, the prices were exceptional and given the scarcity of parts for these old machines beggars can't be choosers! Yes, I read somewhere about the pump bolts so I made sure they had the washers before I put it in.

If I didn't have this source I probably could have scrounged up most of what I needed but it likely would have been from about 4-5 different parts suppliers just because they have a few of this and that sitting on their shelves. Although it seems that the BD shared some parts with DD machines, the DD machines are also no longer being made and in an age of buy new instead of repair I think almost all these parts will be close to obsolete in the next few years. Now is the time to stock up I think while you can.

You're right - I believe the BD design was around longer here than in the US. It seems like over the years Inglis took much longer to catch up to their counterparts in the US in terms of design changes. However, they rarely ever show up around here on places like Craigslist etc so I don't know that many more are still around.

Paul, thank you also for posting your progress on your restoration - this also helped me along the way. It looks like your tub is the same as mine - the white coating they originally used sure didn't hold up as well as the standard grey. I may end up painting mine too. Mine is very rough, chalkboard like. How did the White-Coat do at smoothing it out? I was surprised at how well the clear POR-15 smoothed everything out in the outer tub and centerpost so may try that as an undercoating first.

Thanks to everyone for all the kind words along the way, was really nice to hear.

 

[swestoyz]

Bravo James on the wonderful restoration!  Now that you've gotten through one, you certainly tackle any washer rebuild now.  A freshly rebuilt belt drive can be music to the ears.

 

I can't speak much about the other MFG casting logos that you've found, but here in the states, GM would have different divisions cast engine parts for other divisions, starting in the 70's.  It isn't uncommon to find a Pontiac code on a Cadillac intake during the smog-era.

 

Ben

 

[ragnboneman]

Quote 114jwh (Vancouver)

" You're right - I believe the BD design was around longer here than in the US. It seems like over the years Inglis took much longer to catch up to their counterparts in the US in terms of design changes. However, they rarely ever show up around here on places like Craigslist etc so I don't know that many more are still around. "

Inglis is a branch plant in many respects like a lot of Canadian companies of that era pre free trade.
Inglis is much smaller and the Canadian market it 1/10 the size of the US market with high tariffs to keep foreign made equipment out.
So peculiar was the Canadian market that in a round about way companies that are rivals in the USA might be cooperatively making the consumer goods in Canada sold under different names.

There are many fine examples of US made tooling being sent to Canada to continue to produce something that the US parent no longer makes...
Coleman stopped making table lamps in the USA in the 40s I think, but the production line continued to make them in Canada until 1970.
And parts were stamped in Brass unlike more modern tooling in Kansas where lanterns were all steel...

Buffalo stopped making this particular drill press in the USA probably in the 50s.
But Canadian blower and forge continued to make them into the 70s for Canada, just because it was cheaper.
Or rather cheaper for the manufacturer, but not so much the consumer.

The reason it was cheaper is the price to consumer was higher.
No incentive to modernize means old designs and tooling will continue to make an old product for a captive market..

Other notable old products, the last Studebakers were made in Hamilton out of left over parts..
D series Lawnboys made at the OMC plant into the 80s
PL Robertson screws and screw drivers that no one was interested in just about any place else...

Thanks to free trade.
We have new and cheap products just like everyone else but made in other countries
The real lesson of Inglis is not that is made washing machines.
Its that for political reasons it made washing machines in peace time so it could manufacture small arms in war...

Photo Index - Canadian Blower & Forge Co. Ltd. - Canadian Drill Press No.15 D-3 | VintageMachinery.org

 

[combo52]

How long did the whirlpool belt drive design last in Canada?

I think in the US it was completely discontinued in the spring of 1986.

Does anybody know how much longer it was built in Canada or any other country for that matter? I know Brazil head belt, drive whirlpool products as did Australia.

John

 

[maytag85]

I think (I think) Whirlpool (Brastemp) belt drive washers were made up until 1991 for the South American market, maybe even 1992 possibly.

 

[brisnat81]

Hi John. They were all gone in Australia in 1980, that was when the licensing agreement ended between Malleys and Whirlpool, only the 24” machines were ever made here. The old timers talk about how the tooling was worn out at that point. The only change in 20 years of manufacture was a taller tub and a plastic tub ring, but the spin tub never changed in length. The DD machines arrived in the early 90's, made by Whirlpool USA. Whirlpool again gave up on the AU market at about the time the Cabrio came onto the market, but they're again hawking machines, but it seems to be a mix of lower quality european and chinese made stuff now.

Kleenmaid here was rebranding Brastemp belt drives from about 1984 until the very early 90's when they switched to painted hob Speed Queens. Both the Brastemps and Speed Queens had poor paint finishes and rust was a problem. Having said that, but 1980 the quality of the paint and porcelain on the Malley's made machines had decreased to the stage that the out tubs, hobs and cabinet bottoms all rusted and deteriorated rapidly, compared to the machines of 5-10 years earlier.[this post was last edited: 4/24/2024-18:49]

 

[kenmoreguy64]

US and Canadian production of the WP Belt-Drive

I am not able to pinpoint down to the week when US production ended for the BDs, but I purchased one brand new from Sears that was delivered the last week of August, 1986 and was made in week 32. Its serial is C63221750. I have later collected a pair of Lady Ks that were made in week 35. One of these is the infamous Lady K that Red Carpet Drew saved for me from “The Pile”.

I was later told by a long time WP employee that WP kept a small independent assembly line running until Spring 1987 for a few specific models. I not long later saw an April 1987 made LA7800XP in outside “storage” at a local appliance rebuilder.

Don’t ask me why, but I called Whirlpool’s toll free number in the early 90s and was told that coin op BDs remained in production for some time later (a couple years) and that Canadian production lasted at least into 1989.

I hope this is helpful.

Gordon

 

[neptunebob]

I thought I read on this site

That Whirlpool stockpiled some BD machines in case customers who were not happy with the Direct Drive wanted a machine like they had before. Think there were very many of them?

 

[combo52]

Changing out direct drive washer is for belt Drive machines

We definitely changed out some of the early 24 inch direct drive machines for 29 inch belt drive whirlpool washers because customers were not satisfied with all the lynching and scum lines on clothing from the spin and drain machines.

Whirlpool knew they had a big problem on their hands and worked quickly to get the neutral drain system working, after that time the complaints pretty much disappeared. They also came up with a gentle wash system, where even on the normal cycle. It didn’t wash it hi speed all the time.

But I never heard of any bd machines being stockpile for this purpose.