selectomatic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 483
Ick!
Discuss-O-Mat kind of screwed up my picture. Oh well.
-kevin
Discuss-O-Mat kind of screwed up my picture. Oh well.
-kevin
Call me crazy - Lincoln update.
- Thread starter 58limited
- Start date
58limited
Well-known member
~The seller is obviously either delusional or just lying about having a turbocharged engine however . . . in the engine pic there is no plumbing from the intake to either side of the engine where the turbo(s) would be located.
Curiosity finally got me - I e-mailed the seller for clarification. I'll post the response. I also asked the seller if they have documentation that the car is really a "Factory Convertible" as claimed in an answer to a question posted on the auction. I called Lincoln's archives division once and they have NO record of a factory made convertible - all were sent to a coach builder for conversion.
Curiosity finally got me - I e-mailed the seller for clarification. I'll post the response. I also asked the seller if they have documentation that the car is really a "Factory Convertible" as claimed in an answer to a question posted on the auction. I called Lincoln's archives division once and they have NO record of a factory made convertible - all were sent to a coach builder for conversion.
If Lincoln had built a convertible, yours would be it, man!
Hey, 58limited, that Lincoln convertible is one of the sharpest-looking conversions I've ever seen...big fives to ya on that one...
hydralique, I don't recall seeing a Chevy Celebrity convertible, but I recall Hess and Eisenhardt offering Cutlass Ciera convertible conversions circa 1984-85; not a bad conversion, but not too many built.
Anyone recall the AMC Concord/Eagle convertible conversions built in 1980-81? The Eagle convertible would truly be a rare bird these days!
Lincoln got back into the funeral/professional car business by default because Lincolns are the only separate-frame rear-drive platform luxurious enough to be a limo or hearse. GM has not built a rear-drive car suitable for professional work since the Cadillac Fleetwood/Chevy Caprice/Buick Roadmaster went out of production in 1996.
In fact, this isn't widely known, but Ford and Mercury also offer stretched-frame Crown Vics and Grand Marquises that lend themselves to conversions...
Hey, 58limited, that Lincoln convertible is one of the sharpest-looking conversions I've ever seen...big fives to ya on that one...
hydralique, I don't recall seeing a Chevy Celebrity convertible, but I recall Hess and Eisenhardt offering Cutlass Ciera convertible conversions circa 1984-85; not a bad conversion, but not too many built.
Anyone recall the AMC Concord/Eagle convertible conversions built in 1980-81? The Eagle convertible would truly be a rare bird these days!
Lincoln got back into the funeral/professional car business by default because Lincolns are the only separate-frame rear-drive platform luxurious enough to be a limo or hearse. GM has not built a rear-drive car suitable for professional work since the Cadillac Fleetwood/Chevy Caprice/Buick Roadmaster went out of production in 1996.
In fact, this isn't widely known, but Ford and Mercury also offer stretched-frame Crown Vics and Grand Marquises that lend themselves to conversions...
58limited
Well-known member
Here are responses
to my questions to the seller of the seafoam convertible:
ME- "Hi, Nice car. I have a couple of questions: 1. The write up says the engine is a turbo but I don't see a turbo set up - can you clarify?
2. I have researched late 70's convertible Lincolns for years. I even called Lincoln and talked to their archives division. They have no record of a factory made convertible. Do you have documentation? I would love to get a copy from you - FoMoCos records aren't always the best. Mostly I've been told that these cars were special order dealer promotions, they were sent from the factory directly to a conversion shop and then on to the dealership.
Thanks, David"
SELLER'S RESPONSE- "hi, thanks for writing. it's not turbo, that's my mistake. i tried to change the description after i posted the ad, but it wouldn't let me (hence the two almost identical descriptions, except that the second one doesn't say "turbo"). it's a edelbrock performer rpm 6066 engine (at least that's what it says on it, i know very little
about cars). we do not have documentation of it being a factory made convertable, this is just what we were told by the previous owner who bought it new. the person i'm selling this car for paid 30,000 for it 3 months ago, partly because it is so rare."
ME- "One more question: what film was it used in?
David"
SELLER'S RESPONSE - "hi david, it was used in a film called "palms" by german performance artist john bock. it's still in editing, but the still shots from it look great. i can email you some if you like (i think i'd have to do it
through your non ebay email address)."
OK, I have to say one thing:
$30,000??? That is a really high price for a late 70's Lincoln convertible. If someone offers me that much for mine, I'm selling and getting another for $10,000. Cha-Ching$$
to my questions to the seller of the seafoam convertible:
ME- "Hi, Nice car. I have a couple of questions: 1. The write up says the engine is a turbo but I don't see a turbo set up - can you clarify?
2. I have researched late 70's convertible Lincolns for years. I even called Lincoln and talked to their archives division. They have no record of a factory made convertible. Do you have documentation? I would love to get a copy from you - FoMoCos records aren't always the best. Mostly I've been told that these cars were special order dealer promotions, they were sent from the factory directly to a conversion shop and then on to the dealership.
Thanks, David"
SELLER'S RESPONSE- "hi, thanks for writing. it's not turbo, that's my mistake. i tried to change the description after i posted the ad, but it wouldn't let me (hence the two almost identical descriptions, except that the second one doesn't say "turbo"). it's a edelbrock performer rpm 6066 engine (at least that's what it says on it, i know very little
about cars). we do not have documentation of it being a factory made convertable, this is just what we were told by the previous owner who bought it new. the person i'm selling this car for paid 30,000 for it 3 months ago, partly because it is so rare."
ME- "One more question: what film was it used in?
David"
SELLER'S RESPONSE - "hi david, it was used in a film called "palms" by german performance artist john bock. it's still in editing, but the still shots from it look great. i can email you some if you like (i think i'd have to do it
through your non ebay email address)."
OK, I have to say one thing:
$30,000??? That is a really high price for a late 70's Lincoln convertible. If someone offers me that much for mine, I'm selling and getting another for $10,000. Cha-Ching$$
Well . . .
I hope the owner likes the car a lot, because he's likely to have it a long time if he expects 30K for it.
One of the first rules of collector car values is that correct and original cars generally bring the most money, except in instances where the modifications are well known, documented, and appropriate to the car. An example would be an old BMW with Alpina speed equipment on it. They were BMW specialists 40 years ago with a good reputation for equipment that worked well with the car.
A set of Edelbrock high performance 6066 heads on a Lincoln is peculiar, and the seller seems clueless as to any particulars on the engine. Edelbrock does assemble crate engines, but in their current catalogue they are all based on Chevy small-blocks so it probably isn't an "Edelbrock 6066 engine". I'm guessing that the heads are on the original 460 block, which means low-compression pistons and a low-revving cam. If that's the case it probably runs just fine, as Lincoln intended, with maybe some extra oomph. If it is a real high performance, high compression engine with lots of overlap in the valve timing then it would have that classic loping idle and less than smooth exhaust note, especially with an automatic trans. That's all fine if it's in a muscle car, but in a Lincoln? I don't think so! The seller should at least research the engine and provide some documentation if he wants a high price for the car. Another issue is that engine, if it is far from stock, may not pass smog tests and in fact the test station may refuse to test it at all due to the non-stock air cleaner. This might be one reason the Lincoln seller wants to ebay it, in hopes of it leaving California for a place where it won't have to be tested.
Bongobro - I thought the Celebrity conversion was kind of strange, and I don't think I've seen another. My friend bought it as a collectible but he loved to buy and sell and so didn't hang onto it long. Nobody know the original owner, but I'd guess that it was a Chevy dealer who wanted a convertible other than a Corvette for his own personal use, because for the money any sane person would have ordered an Olds or Buick instead. Sure was a nice conversion.
I hope the owner likes the car a lot, because he's likely to have it a long time if he expects 30K for it.
One of the first rules of collector car values is that correct and original cars generally bring the most money, except in instances where the modifications are well known, documented, and appropriate to the car. An example would be an old BMW with Alpina speed equipment on it. They were BMW specialists 40 years ago with a good reputation for equipment that worked well with the car.
A set of Edelbrock high performance 6066 heads on a Lincoln is peculiar, and the seller seems clueless as to any particulars on the engine. Edelbrock does assemble crate engines, but in their current catalogue they are all based on Chevy small-blocks so it probably isn't an "Edelbrock 6066 engine". I'm guessing that the heads are on the original 460 block, which means low-compression pistons and a low-revving cam. If that's the case it probably runs just fine, as Lincoln intended, with maybe some extra oomph. If it is a real high performance, high compression engine with lots of overlap in the valve timing then it would have that classic loping idle and less than smooth exhaust note, especially with an automatic trans. That's all fine if it's in a muscle car, but in a Lincoln? I don't think so! The seller should at least research the engine and provide some documentation if he wants a high price for the car. Another issue is that engine, if it is far from stock, may not pass smog tests and in fact the test station may refuse to test it at all due to the non-stock air cleaner. This might be one reason the Lincoln seller wants to ebay it, in hopes of it leaving California for a place where it won't have to be tested.
Bongobro - I thought the Celebrity conversion was kind of strange, and I don't think I've seen another. My friend bought it as a collectible but he loved to buy and sell and so didn't hang onto it long. Nobody know the original owner, but I'd guess that it was a Chevy dealer who wanted a convertible other than a Corvette for his own personal use, because for the money any sane person would have ordered an Olds or Buick instead. Sure was a nice conversion.
58limited
Well-known member
I saw an early 80's Olds Toronado convertible for sale several years ago - that was a nice car, made a good looking convertible. When I was in college, someone would come to the football games in a late 70s Monte Carlo convertible. I always that that was a keen conversion.
In the late 80s, I saw advertisements in Hemmings Motor News for a $2500 kit to turn your late 70s Caddy Coupe De Ville into a convertible. I've never seen one, so I wonder if very many people bought the kit.
In the late 80s, I saw advertisements in Hemmings Motor News for a $2500 kit to turn your late 70s Caddy Coupe De Ville into a convertible. I've never seen one, so I wonder if very many people bought the kit.
58limited
Well-known member
OMG - this guy totally copied me. Glad I could help...
Here is another one like mine that just came up on ebay. Very nice car. The seller pretty much copied verbatum alot of things I commented on that were posted to previous convertible auctions and stuff on my web page:
"There was more than one company that produced these conversions, three I think. When researching these cars and what we have been told is that these were ordered through the dealership. The car was sent from the factory to a conversion shop and then delivered to the dealer. Some people have told me that they were factory-authorized conversions but Lincoln's archives division told me that they were dealer offered promotions. The Town Coupe or Mark V could be converted. About 20 to 50 were made each year 1977-79, and three four-door convertibles were made."
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Linc...ategoryZ6304QQihZ001QQitemZ110139401355QQrdZ1
Here is another one like mine that just came up on ebay. Very nice car. The seller pretty much copied verbatum alot of things I commented on that were posted to previous convertible auctions and stuff on my web page:
"There was more than one company that produced these conversions, three I think. When researching these cars and what we have been told is that these were ordered through the dealership. The car was sent from the factory to a conversion shop and then delivered to the dealer. Some people have told me that they were factory-authorized conversions but Lincoln's archives division told me that they were dealer offered promotions. The Town Coupe or Mark V could be converted. About 20 to 50 were made each year 1977-79, and three four-door convertibles were made."
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Linc...ategoryZ6304QQihZ001QQitemZ110139401355QQrdZ1
58limited
Well-known member
Here is the convertible auction where I posted the info copied in the listing I just posted about. Scroll down and click on the questions to see everything - several others posted with some very good info.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...e=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1&viewitem=&item=150122528428
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...e=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1&viewitem=&item=150122528428
58limited
Well-known member
I just noticed something else: the cars from the two auctions referenced above are the same cars! The VIN is the same. The seller of the current listing bought the car and detailed it and is trying to resell for a profit.
selectomatic
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- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 483
Now it's your turn to call me crazy.
I've loved my 1993 Lincoln Town Car for all eight years I've owned it. I've put 97,000 miles on it, in addition to the 75,000 it had when I bought it. Unfortunately, the salt and snow on Wisconsin's roads every winter take their toll.
Each year the car has gotten a little rustier underneath, and each year I've been dreading having to replace it.
Unfortunately, 1993 was the last year that Lincolns were available in the particular shade of blue that I like, and 1997 was the last year for that bodystyle.
Well, perseverance pays off. On the left is my "old" Lincoln, and on the right is my "new" one. Except for a few trim details, they're identical. And the new one came from a state south of here, where they don't get much snow and they don't salt the roads. It also has a lot fewer miles.
If you search hard enough, you can find what you're looking for.
-kevin
I've loved my 1993 Lincoln Town Car for all eight years I've owned it. I've put 97,000 miles on it, in addition to the 75,000 it had when I bought it. Unfortunately, the salt and snow on Wisconsin's roads every winter take their toll.
Each year the car has gotten a little rustier underneath, and each year I've been dreading having to replace it.
Unfortunately, 1993 was the last year that Lincolns were available in the particular shade of blue that I like, and 1997 was the last year for that bodystyle.
Well, perseverance pays off. On the left is my "old" Lincoln, and on the right is my "new" one. Except for a few trim details, they're identical. And the new one came from a state south of here, where they don't get much snow and they don't salt the roads. It also has a lot fewer miles.
If you search hard enough, you can find what you're looking for.
-kevin
58limited
Well-known member
OK you're crazy too.
But in a good way. Congratulations on finding the car you want - it can be difficult sometimes.
My convertible has not been picked up by the transport company yet, so it'll be a while before it arrives. I hate the waiting.
But in a good way. Congratulations on finding the car you want - it can be difficult sometimes.
My convertible has not been picked up by the transport company yet, so it'll be a while before it arrives. I hate the waiting.
selectomatic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 483
Patience is a virtue, or so I'm told.
Waiting can be hell, but it'll all be worth it when it finally gets there.
And no matter what the ad says, I just can't feature a car like this being 'sporty.' I have no problem with 'Classic' or 'Rare,' however.
-kevin
Waiting can be hell, but it'll all be worth it when it finally gets there.
And no matter what the ad says, I just can't feature a car like this being 'sporty.' I have no problem with 'Classic' or 'Rare,' however.
-kevin
58limited
Well-known member
Speaking of the ad, I received it yesterday. It states that these are factory authorized convertibles. The Lincoln archives and the Henry Ford Museum have no record of these. I think that dealers had to have permission to market an altered Ford product, so some vice president at Ford sent the dealership a memo stating that they could sell these conversions. Or, the dealer made it up as an advertising ploy.
Here is the ad:
http://home.gt.rr.com/limited58/lincad.jpg
Here is the ad:
http://home.gt.rr.com/limited58/lincad.jpg
58limited
Well-known member
~And no matter what the ad says, I just can't feature a car like this being 'sporty.'
Sporty is stretching it. But, the interior is more sporty than my '78 coupe which has the "pillow top" upholstery - very opulent but not sporty.
Sporty is stretching it. But, the interior is more sporty than my '78 coupe which has the "pillow top" upholstery - very opulent but not sporty.
exploder3211
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- Dec 24, 2006
- Messages
- 1,664
is it me or did that ad come from a playboy?
58limited
Well-known member
Yes, its from a Playboy Magazine.
Yeah, sporty is a bit of a misnomer here! Sometimes it is nice to see a car that is just a luxury car, or just a sports car, or just whatever it should be. The fewer compromises to the main purpose of the car, the better it often is.
I think the key to the "factory authorized" question in this case is the warranty. If Ford agreed upfront to not contest warranty claims on parts of the car not affected by the conversion then it is a sort of minimal approval. By law I don't think they could deny coverage on these parts of the car, but they could certainly give a lot of trouble and waste a lot of time in verifying every claim if they chose to.
Manufacturers usually look the other way with high-quality modifications to their products, but on rare occasions they have been known to take action against shoddy or potentially dangerous modifications. Their biggest weapon is threatening a dealer with legal action if he sells a modified car and implies any kind of factory approval.
I think the key to the "factory authorized" question in this case is the warranty. If Ford agreed upfront to not contest warranty claims on parts of the car not affected by the conversion then it is a sort of minimal approval. By law I don't think they could deny coverage on these parts of the car, but they could certainly give a lot of trouble and waste a lot of time in verifying every claim if they chose to.
Manufacturers usually look the other way with high-quality modifications to their products, but on rare occasions they have been known to take action against shoddy or potentially dangerous modifications. Their biggest weapon is threatening a dealer with legal action if he sells a modified car and implies any kind of factory approval.
Speaking of Lincolns, here's a link to the LCOC (Lincoln and Continental Owner's Club) Eastern National Meet in Cherry Hill, NJ which took place last weekend June 13-17. About 100 cars were present, and great fun was had by all! Lots of 1956 and 1957 Continental Mark II's, 60's slabside Lincolns with center opening doors (the term "suicide doors" is a misnomer), and Lincolns from the 50's, 70's and 80's!
http://www.michiganlcoc.org/gallery/CherryHill2007
http://www.michiganlcoc.org/gallery/CherryHill2007
58limited
Well-known member
Nice pics, looks like the Cherry Hill meet was good.
I got a call today, the shipping company picked up my new convertible last night at 10:45pm. The driver is shooting for delivery Friday evening. Upstate NY to SE Texas in 3 days, not bad.
I got a call today, the shipping company picked up my new convertible last night at 10:45pm. The driver is shooting for delivery Friday evening. Upstate NY to SE Texas in 3 days, not bad.
He better have a biiig truck 
58limited
Well-known member
The seller called and told me - its on the top rack, behind a Deusy (if I understood the seller correctly, he might have meant a deuce coupe but he said a Deusy). The Deusenberg should still be on the truck when he delivers my car (I hope it's really Deusy!). My camera is acting up, but if it works I'm gettin' a picture of that car.
Odd - the Deusy does not have windows, just a top (Touring car?) but acoording to the driver the new owner will not pay to have it shipped in an enclosed truck - I hope it doesn't rain! The damage would cost more than the cost of shipping in an enclosed truck.
Odd - the Deusy does not have windows, just a top (Touring car?) but acoording to the driver the new owner will not pay to have it shipped in an enclosed truck - I hope it doesn't rain! The damage would cost more than the cost of shipping in an enclosed truck.
southernmdgeguy
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- Aug 24, 2005
- Messages
- 254
Can't wait to see it, congrats!
spankomatic
Well-known member
I want a ride...
Just drive it on out here to California 'cause I want a ride.... It is beautiful.
Jim
Just drive it on out here to California 'cause I want a ride.... It is beautiful.
Jim
exploder3211
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- Dec 24, 2006
- Messages
- 1,664
Heres a 1987 Buick Regal GNX new never titled... OMG where was this car kept?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buic...ategoryZ6137QQihZ008QQitemZ180131824870QQrdZ1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buic...ategoryZ6137QQihZ008QQitemZ180131824870QQrdZ1
exploder3211
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- Dec 24, 2006
- Messages
- 1,664
One more
83 Riveria Convertible
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buic...ategoryZ6142QQihZ006QQitemZ160132426348QQrdZ1
83 Riveria Convertible
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buic...ategoryZ6142QQihZ006QQitemZ160132426348QQrdZ1
maytagmark
Well-known member
Great cars everyone
Love them all, from old Lincolns to newer Lincolns, all full size Fords,growing up in the 70's my dad worked for GM dealers and was a GM man, But I just loved Ford products,VW'S,Volvos and Mercedes,as a teen there was a '76 T-Bird at the ford dealer,the last year for that body style,it was around '80 or so at the time with the gas crunch,but I really wanted that car,I would go and just sit in it,but my parents wouldn't let me buy it.I got my '77 Lincoln a little later in '84,that 460 is a great engine. Mark
Love them all, from old Lincolns to newer Lincolns, all full size Fords,growing up in the 70's my dad worked for GM dealers and was a GM man, But I just loved Ford products,VW'S,Volvos and Mercedes,as a teen there was a '76 T-Bird at the ford dealer,the last year for that body style,it was around '80 or so at the time with the gas crunch,but I really wanted that car,I would go and just sit in it,but my parents wouldn't let me buy it.I got my '77 Lincoln a little later in '84,that 460 is a great engine. Mark
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