Cars...all that is old is new!

[Kevinpreston3]

I have both a 1968 Dodge Charger and a 1971 Dodge Charger Super Bee. I have had the '68 since a junior in high school, and love both these cars.

As you can imagine, I was very excited upon hearing of the Charger coming back. There was a retro 1999 Charger Show Car that was just perfect.

Unfortunately, what they decided to come out with is kind of a modified looking Chrysler 300, 4 doors no less. While the power train is strong, looks wise it was a fair effort at best.

Nonetheless, the looks kind of grew on me a little. When I first saw it, I said instantly, that thing looks like a Gordon Keeble! Of course, people looked at me like I was crazy. What's a Gordon Keeble?!

A Gordon Keeble was a British car made in limited numbers in the 1960s. They used high end aircraft components in alot of the car, and it was one of those "British with American power" type hybrids, which are always interesting.

Today I hunted up a few pics for comparison, for your viewing pleasure.

(Nah, no resemblance there huh!)

 

[petek]

Yes, I'd say there is a strong resemblance..

 

[appnut]

Kevin, Undoubtedly so!! Fascinated by this.

 

[gansky1]

You're right - they are very similar. Maybe there is nothing new-new, just recycled or "updated" designs.

Would love to see some pics of your cars too - they sound very cool!

 

[rickr]

Well Kevin, the Charger might not look that much like the original,and it does have four doors now...However it looks much better than what "The General" came up with for a retro muscle car. How about a new Pontiac GTO that looks like a 1992 Grand Am? The General has been screwing up as of late...

http://www.gtoalley.com/2004gtopics.html

 

[jasonl]

But the Mustang and the New Beetle

Really took their looks from their ancestors.

 

[rickr]

The new Mustangs are FINE! A friend just bought a new purple 2005 Mustang convertible a couple of months ago. He let me drive it with the top down before the weather turned, and I was impressed!

 

[rickr]

Ha Ha! we think alike on the retro cars Jason! You are SO right! LOL

General Motors has always been my favorite.But right now of all the models they have,I would only buy a Cadillac.
The General better get their sh-- together,and soon!

 

[southernmdgeguy]

Wow Kevin,

Incredible you saw that and remembered the car like that. We would like to see your other cars, I enjoyed the Caddy pictures! It was great to see it go to someone who will take care of it.

I love the new Mustang, and the new Cobra that comes out next year!! I am saving my pennies..

 

[Cybrvanr]

That definitely is a striking resemblence I tell you what, those Chrysler 300 series cars are some well designed machines. I've been really interested in one of those Magnum station wagons. It's a classic American wagon...only without the woodgrain paneling and the thirst for fuel!

Another one is the Subauru X9 Trabeca SUV and the earlier SAAB's...take a look at the SAABaru first:

 

[Cybrvanr]

And then a 60's vintage SAAB 96 wagon!

 

[Cybrvanr]

And then a 60's vintage SAAB 96 wagon!

 

[Kevinpreston3]

Misc thoughts...

Cybrvanr----great comparo. I still want to see your vintage Chevy van pics...that was you, right?

southernmdgeguy--I am glad you liked the Cad...I have to get some new plug wires for it. I did the deal where I picked up the wire when the car was running and felt the shock from my OTHER hand to the sheet medal! How much do you want to bet that they are the original wires?!

Rickr--I kind of feel about the GTO like I do about the Charger, the powertrain is great but the body is kind of warmed over. One has to remember however, that the first original ones were just Tempests with a hot engine, suspension mods and a few fake scoops. They were plain jane. We tend to remember the much flashier late 60s early 70s Judge models, convertibles, and H.O.s with spoilers, at least I do. A 1964 Goat is plain! Pontiac needs to re-align itself as the performance division, and needs to bring a sedan to the market that is better than the Grand Prix. They are on target with the Solstice, we have to hope it sells!

 

[Cybrvanr]

Will the real Dodge Charger please stand up!

Take a look at this: Someone must have made a typo at the naming department of Chrysler. This is a Dodge CHALLENGER that will be produced soon. It bears more resemblence to the classice Chargers than the 300 series car does...Not that the 300 based charger is a bad car, it just isn't a Charger...Should have been called the Monaco or maybe even the Polara.

I'll take some pictures of the van tomorrow...I'll be getting down and geasy with it tomorrow1

 

[Kevinpreston3]

The Challenger...

has a 1971 'Cuda-esqe grille to it. I like it, but I wish these cars were not so stubby.

THIS is the car that enthusiasts, including myself, wish they had made:

 

[goatfarmer]

It still irks me that they made the Charger a 4 door! Ford got the Mustang right,they are nice rides,with enough retro styling to be impressive.
Rick,don't get me started on the new GTO! GM missed the mark once again.The '06 is closer to what it should have been in '05.They had a chance to gain a lot of market share,had a lot of hype behind it,and came out with BLAH!
Kevin,I'd love to see your cars. I have a 65 Tempest,and a 68 GTO,both hardtops. Someone tried to make the 65 a GTO,with the hood,emblems,and grill.But it's still a Tempest.The 68 is pretty much all original.

kennyGF

 

[foraloysius]

Steven,

Thank you for that wonderful picture of the Saab 96. You didn't see them a lot in Holland where people had a preference for German and French cars. I guess one of the reasons was the two stroke motor, they were noisier than the cars with four stroke motors.

Louis

 

[jasonl]

Dodge=mean, VW=Nice

Am I the only one who thinks that the Dodge muscle cars look like their "mean"? Like the driver is likely some aggressive badass that will flip you the bird and run you over with the car. From experience (and Bri's gonna fuss at me), the meanest drivers on the road are those that drive Dodge Rams, Chevy Silverados, Ford Crown Vics, and any Japanese car with a fart can exhaust. Funny, you don't see Beetle drivers cutting people off and stuff. And some Beetles can compete with the Jap cars. Priuses can't because their battery powered lol.

Bri and I drove the V6 stang convertible with the 5 speed. OMG! I'd hate to see the V8 version. It was fun and a half. Everything about the 2005 Stang just looks well built, the engine is simple and probaby very easy to work on. It looks classic inside and under the hood as well. I was impressed that I fell in love with a FORD (Fixed Or Repaired Daily).

VW Beetle diesel/hybrid NOW!

 

[gizmo]

funny you guys don't like the GTO. Of course it isn't a Pontiac at all, it is a Holden Monaro from Australia. It has been quite a hit here too, though it has just gone out of production.

The original Monaro came out in 68 or 69 and was pretty much to Australian market what the GTO or Charger was in USA. It went out of production in 74 and Holden didn't make any car in that class for years - the AU market is just too small for a niche model like that.

The Holden Commodore is the GM family car here, it used a 3.8 litre V6 engine of Buick ancestry but the car is rear wheel drive, the Buick was front drive. There is a US derived V8 as an option too. Some time recently (2000??) a styling excercise was to make a coupe version of a Commodore and bring back the Monaro nameplate. It was shown at Sydney motor show and was a sensation, GM were surprised with the response and worked on getting it into production. The only way they could get approval to make it was to find an export market too, and GM USA decided they could sell it as a new GTO. They had to do a minor restyle to make it more aggressive to suit American tastes, and reworked the exhaust to make it louder too. I remember reading that the Holden engineers were pretty unhappy about it, they thought the changes spoiled the style of a car that in its original form looks strong and sporty but pretty and stylish too. The kind of brash aggressive looks reminiscent of early 70's US muscle cars were never their idea.
When later versions had fake bonnet (hood) scoops added, it looked even tackier, and that US spec bonnet was soon fitted to AU market cars too. It is now also sold in UK as a Vauxhall Monaro and in the Middle East as a Chevrolet something or other, but is being withdrawn from sale here where it is made, which surprises me. They claim it was always intended to be a limited run, and a new Monaro will emerge one day...

I personally prefer European GM cars, but in recent years they have become ugly and grown fat. All Holden small cars for about 10 years have been imports of Opel designs from Europe, my partner drives a Holden Barina which is the Opel Corsa, a tiny 1.4 litre hatch which hugs the road like sports car, a true delight to drive. I am currrently searching for a Vectra wagon but they sold here in small numbers and to make my task harder, I want a manual trans too. The older Vectra was a lovely car and a delight to drive, the new model went up in price from $25000 to $35000, guess what, people stopped buying. They are bloody ugly too. The Astra, small/medium 1.8 litre hatch, was a great car, almost worshipped by the car press, has been replaced by a new model which once again is bigger, very ugly and about 20% more expensive.

Holden have recently announced that the Barina and base model Astra are dropped and replaced by some junk from Daewoo, badged as Holden. They even have called the new POS a Barina again. (harrumph!!)

For me this is as sacrilegious as GM Frigidaire washing machines being replaced by those impostors from White-Westinghouse...

Sorry about the rant but I am at least as mad about cars as I am about old washing machines...
Chris.

 

[ironrite]

My nephew bought an 05 Mustang coupe. I had heard they did this, but was still surprised to see it. You open the door and the window automatically drops down about 1/2 inch. Hmmm, where did Ford get this idea. Perhaps from the 1961-63 Lincoln convertibles? On those, the rear windows would drop down to clear the top, if the top was up. Supposedly due to a design flaw on the Lincoln. As they designed the convertible top to match the roofline of the sedans, but on the convertible, part of the top covered the class on the rear door windows. So the drop down window was a quick fix, instead of redesigning the whole top.

Now for a "Better Idea" from Ford, why not bring this model over from Australia? The main reason I've heard is it would be too expensive due to safety issues, but does that mean that Ford is building unsafe cars for the Australian market?

http://www.ford.com.au/range/falconute/models/xr8ute.asp

 

[Cybrvanr]

...Mean Dodges, It's the headlights and the fenders!!

One of the most interesting things I have noticed recently with many of the auto manufacturers is that the designers have really learned how to place human expression into a vehicle. Why do some of the latest vehicles look "mean" well, the headlamps are the first place to start.

The headlamps sort of resememble the way a person, or any animal for that matter, in an angry mood would hold their eyes. The headlamps start out wide at the edges of the vehicle and taper down towards the center. The top edges of the circular portions of the headlamps are also part of it. They are shaded at the top, simliar to the way an angry person's eyebrows would cut off the top edge of their pupil. Take a look at the headlamps for instance on the charger above..the latest siverados are the same way and see if you notice this!

Pickup trucks are sold on "toughness" they are supposed to be able to haul big loads, tow trailers, crawl up rocks and dirt roads, and that sort of thing. A tough appearance will tend to make the onlooker feel that the vehicle is more capable of these things than another...notice the "tough look" on pickup trucks really didn't come about till the mid 90's when people started using them for personal transportation more than work vehicles. Company buyers, the previous buyers of trucks look more at the real spec's to find out how the vehicle would perform before making a purchase and a personal buyer.

The fenders are a bit more animalistic than the headlamps, although if one thinks of the way a prize fighter holds their sholders before a fight. What comes to mind with me though is a cat that is stalking prey, and is getting ready to pounce. The animals sholders will be high on their body, and their stance is wide in order to make a powerful, precise leap. The wide fenders used in the latest Dodges sort of resemble this stance...like a cat ready to pounce!

Of course, facial expressions also work the other way too. The market for the Dodge Neon and the VW beetle is shooting for is people who want a fun little toy car that's not so serious. For that reason, those vehicles hoods curve up in sort of a smile. The headlights are perfectly round, resembling the bright eyes of a spirited, happy person! What comes to mind for me is a small child. The Mazda Miata's grill opening sort of resembles a person who is having a howling good time. When ever I see one of those cars, it sort of subconsiously says to me WHOOOOHOOOO!

 

[cleanteamofny]

The 300 Series

I want one painted like this!

 

[rickr]

Mean Machines of Olde

They did it in the 1950's too! 1959 Buick was the original "Mean Machine"

 

[kenmore1978]

Ford

Two more expressions for FORD

Found On Road Dead

First On Race Day

 

[westytoploader]

Very kewl vintage cars...I LOVE the '59 Buick and Saab 96!! When I opened up the CR Auto Issue last April and saw the "new" GTO, the first thing I said was "What the hell?" Doesn't bear any resemblance at all to the original GTO, neither cosmetically nor engine and powertrain-wise for that matter! Not a "performance" vehicle by any means, IMHO. Ford, however, really surprised me with the new Mustang design, with the "fastback" styling and round headlights. Even if it is plastic, I would take one in a heartbeat!

Jason, interesting observation, LOL, but it's true! Anyone driving a Chevy Silverado is usually tailgates the person in front of them! Another one I noticed is never get in front of anyone in a BMW, or behind anyone in a Lincoln! My dad currently drives a 2004 Dodge Ram (no, it's not the Hemi version), and does drive it "differently" than he did the GMC Yukon he had before.

Although, when I ever get my (cheesy V6-powered) F-150 sold (had a few calls but nothing serious...will have to eBay it), one truck I have in mind is a Dodge Ram 3500 dually, with the Cummins turbo diesel...read: the ultimate washer hauler, and not a bad looking or sounding ride either!

 

[jasonl]

Dodge trucks not only have the mean "eyes" but the huge grill is like a huge gaping mouth. Notice those 18 wheelers that put that cheesy "Teeth" decal in their grill. I absolutely hate the mean look. It shows the attitude of the driver. They bought it because it looks aggressive and it reflects how they drive. Let me say before Austin slaps me is not all but some people are like that. It's not BMW, it's Mercedes. I have plenty of them ride my butt in Massachusetts. And they have a mean look as well.

I guess the reason why people in these "Mean" vehicles are so mean to me on the road is because I drive a "nice" vehicle. Psychology. They see me as meek and mild so I get tailgated, cutoff, passed often.

'Cudas look angry because of the way the headlights are recessed under the hood, as if squinting to give a real evil look.

Now, on to NICE cars
I notice alot of cars that smile. Ford Windstars, some Mitsu Eclipses, VW Beetles (old and new), Dodge Neons, Dodge Caravans, Toyota Prius (looks like a "Japanese" face, slanted eyes and a almost smiling grill), Jeep Liberty (not really smiling but look at those headlights.

Amazing how we percieve emotions from objects like that.

 

[Kevinpreston3]

While out today....

Saw a Nissan Figuro! Now I don't like Japanese cars at all, but this one was cool.

http://www.microcar.org/carspecs/nissanfigaro.html

 

[westytoploader]

Jason, are you talking about the old or new-design Rams? The pre-2002 or 2003 designs had a more "neutral" look. I hate 18-wheelers in general...although the newer ones are more styled and trying to shed the "mean" look.

I also like vintage Chevrolet station wagons...1966-1973 in particular. They look GREAT when "pimped out"...especially the Chevelle Nomad with SS trim!!

My absolute dream vehicles are the 1959 Cadillac or 1959 Chevrolet Impala. Why, you ask? Look at the tail sections of both.

 

[drmitch]

I like the VW convrets and the Chryslers too.

 

[Cybrvanr]

One of the cars that I enjoy looking at are the late 70's and early 80's Lincoln town cars. Those things were HUGE, but with those squared off waterfall grilles and the folding headlights, the cars have a real elegant look. They sort of look have a very aristocratic, tuxedo appearance to them.

That little Nissan Vigoro there looks very similar to the little 2-seat Nash Metropolitan