dj-gabriele
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,685
No water softener in the USA? I tought it was a standard feature!
Cascade phosphate free is getting TERRIBLE reviews by customers!
- Thread starter mark_wpduet
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launderess
Well-known member
Nope
Water hardness varies across the rather huge USA, but Amercian domestic dishwashers, other than those either made in Europe or based upon such designs have built water softeners.
Phosphate laden dishwasher detergent was until recently the main weapon against water hardness and it's problems for automatic dishwashers. Anyone who's water needed more treatment than this normally installed a whole house water softener system.
Water hardness varies across the rather huge USA, but Amercian domestic dishwashers, other than those either made in Europe or based upon such designs have built water softeners.
Phosphate laden dishwasher detergent was until recently the main weapon against water hardness and it's problems for automatic dishwashers. Anyone who's water needed more treatment than this normally installed a whole house water softener system.
European dishwashers - you shouldn't need phosphates!
If your dishwasher has a built-in water softener and you use the correct dose of salt to keep it replenished, you should not need phosphates at all.
I use phosphate free dishwasher tablets all time eg Sun Green Power and Ecover and I get excellent results.
For euro ma Hines the phosphates are really totally unnecessary.
I realise that many US dishwashers don't have softeners donuts hard to know what you guys can do!
Install water softeners?!
If your dishwasher has a built-in water softener and you use the correct dose of salt to keep it replenished, you should not need phosphates at all.
I use phosphate free dishwasher tablets all time eg Sun Green Power and Ecover and I get excellent results.
For euro ma Hines the phosphates are really totally unnecessary.
I realise that many US dishwashers don't have softeners donuts hard to know what you guys can do!
Install water softeners?!
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
After a lot of searching
This is the cheapest I could find any STPP! I hope this is the right stuff! 8 lbs for 21.55 and the shipping was ten dollars and something Fedex for a total of 32 dollars and some change. This company is out of Atlanta, GA.
http://www.soapgoods.com/Sodium-Tri...-p-1267.html?gclid=CLTYldj8lKMCFQfxDAod40pAnw
This is the cheapest I could find any STPP! I hope this is the right stuff! 8 lbs for 21.55 and the shipping was ten dollars and something Fedex for a total of 32 dollars and some change. This company is out of Atlanta, GA.
http://www.soapgoods.com/Sodium-Tri...-p-1267.html?gclid=CLTYldj8lKMCFQfxDAod40pAnw
Followed your link
Oh, but 2000 lbs for $2425.00 is even cheaper! And that way you'll never run out....
Oh, but 2000 lbs for $2425.00 is even cheaper! And that way you'll never run out....
I've been using the Finish dispenser, the round one in the top rack, for the last 2 or 3 loads and it seems to work quite well. I would guess it is phosphate free, don't have the packaging anymore. Great deal, on sale at my local Meijer's for $4.97 less a $3.00 online coupon. Odds are I won't continue to use it as it is a bit pricey, but for me it does work well.
I just found out
Original DASH from 1956 was 40% STPP in the formulation! Thats a whopping amount of STPP but back then it was a whopping amount cheaper than the surfactant used.
Original DASH from 1956 was 40% STPP in the formulation! Thats a whopping amount of STPP but back then it was a whopping amount cheaper than the surfactant used.
I noticed Walmart & my local grocery store both still have Cascade Complete packs with phosphates at the back of the shelves. they have the darker green plastic tops on the tub containers. the new formula all have lighter green color packaging.
I checked HEB & WM yesterday, everything is phosphate-free. Maybe I didn't dig deep enough, but the shelves aren't all that deep!
whirlcool
Well-known member
I was at Walmart yesterday and noticed some packages of Cascade Complete in the darker green packages like the phosphated version used to be. Nope, still no phosphates.
whirlcool
Well-known member
I got a phone call from the lady down the street that I mentioned earlier in this thread. She said her DW isn't cleaning well again. I told her to call me when she loads it up that evening and let me come down and look at it.
I got down there and looked at it. Well, she loaded it properly. BUT, the amount of detergent was unbelieveable! She uses Walmart Great Value Orange Gel. She only put in a squirt in each cup. Each squirt was about the size and thickness of a dime! I told her that you need to use a lot more than that! She said "I've been doing it that way for years". Hmmm and to think that we have had dinner at her house multiple times before.....
I got down there and looked at it. Well, she loaded it properly. BUT, the amount of detergent was unbelieveable! She uses Walmart Great Value Orange Gel. She only put in a squirt in each cup. Each squirt was about the size and thickness of a dime! I told her that you need to use a lot more than that! She said "I've been doing it that way for years". Hmmm and to think that we have had dinner at her house multiple times before.....
launderess
Well-known member
Around here the switch over literally happened overnight.
One cannot find a bottle or box of phosphate Cascade for love nor money. Don't know what store managers did with the old stock, but one must assume marching orders were issued.
Have checked off price and discount stores, but still nothing. May hit "Nationwide Warehouse" in the Village to see what there is.
Now common sense says the stuff couldn't simply have been chucked into rubbish, think of the pollution from dumping cases of dishwashing gels and powders into landfills. So what did they do with the stuff!
Stores locally had shelves full of the old stock, and again overnight it was replaced.
One cannot find a bottle or box of phosphate Cascade for love nor money. Don't know what store managers did with the old stock, but one must assume marching orders were issued.
Have checked off price and discount stores, but still nothing. May hit "Nationwide Warehouse" in the Village to see what there is.
Now common sense says the stuff couldn't simply have been chucked into rubbish, think of the pollution from dumping cases of dishwashing gels and powders into landfills. So what did they do with the stuff!
Stores locally had shelves full of the old stock, and again overnight it was replaced.
I went to the store again today, they had one or two tubs of the Complete tabs like I got (that sell for $12+). they also had several jugs of the liquid Complete (dark green) next to lighter jugs of comparable Complete on the shelf, but that's it. I didn't look at the darker jugs to see if there4 were till phosphates, I just don't like those liquids.
Found some older Cascade at a grocery store today.....
The store I was at is not reknown for rotating stock. Someone before me must have known to check the back of the shelves, as there was exposed a dark green box of Lemon Cascade, with 6.4% phosphate formula. Nothing left on the shelves otherwise had it. I got two boxes, and re-covered the remaining boxes (there may have been about 6 left) in case someone else wants to go fishing for it.
It pays to look at the backs of the shelves! If anyone wants me to nab what's left, send me an e-mail and I'll get it for you.
Gordon
The store I was at is not reknown for rotating stock. Someone before me must have known to check the back of the shelves, as there was exposed a dark green box of Lemon Cascade, with 6.4% phosphate formula. Nothing left on the shelves otherwise had it. I got two boxes, and re-covered the remaining boxes (there may have been about 6 left) in case someone else wants to go fishing for it.
It pays to look at the backs of the shelves! If anyone wants me to nab what's left, send me an e-mail and I'll get it for you.
Gordon
I just picked up a bunch of 6.25 lb boxes of 6.4% phosphorus Cascade Complete at $5/box, at a local discount grocery store. That works out to $.80/lb. Also picked up a few boxes of 4.68 lb Cascade with Bleach (no doubt, an oxygen bleach) for $4/box. That works out to about $.86/lb. They also had phosphated Cascade Complete actionpak gel packs, 20 for $3. That actually compares well with the $17/85 pac tubs I've been getting at Costco. Would have to get my old receipts to figure out how much the older phosphated Cascade powder was costing me at Costco per lb.
Big Lots had the phosphated Cascade with Bleach, 4.68 lb, for $6/box. I passed on that. The only phosphated dw detergent I found at the 99 cents store was 9 gelpacs for $1. Not bad, actually, since that is the cheapest, but I wasn't sure of the brand. I passed on that also.
Anyway, I'm fixed for phosphated dw detergent for a while, between the stuff I bought today and the sacks of STPP in storage...
Hopefully in due course, when enough consumers reject the new phosphate free Cascade, we'll be seeing the "green" versions wind up at the discount lots shops, and a good phosphated version will return to the mainstream store shelves.
Big Lots had the phosphated Cascade with Bleach, 4.68 lb, for $6/box. I passed on that. The only phosphated dw detergent I found at the 99 cents store was 9 gelpacs for $1. Not bad, actually, since that is the cheapest, but I wasn't sure of the brand. I passed on that also.
Anyway, I'm fixed for phosphated dw detergent for a while, between the stuff I bought today and the sacks of STPP in storage...
Hopefully in due course, when enough consumers reject the new phosphate free Cascade, we'll be seeing the "green" versions wind up at the discount lots shops, and a good phosphated version will return to the mainstream store shelves.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Even if everyone rejects the phosphate free detergents, I highly doubt the phosphates will return.
jerrod6
Well-known member
"Just wondering how many of you experiencing poor results with the new formulation have a water softener built-into your dishwasher??"
Chestermike: I have a Dw with a built in softener. It has several programs that are designated as "glass care" which are supposed to help protect your glasses from etching. For these programs it keeps the wash temperature below 131F and it mixes hard and soft water together to prevent the water from being too soft. I have used the non phosphate detergents in these programs and don't have any problem with white film. I alternate detergents each week and so far I have tried Finish all in 1 tabs, Finish powder, and Cascade complete all in 1 powder. All of these non phosphate. The Finish powder is actually better than the old version which contained chlorine bleach. My state banned phosphates in DW detergents effective June 2010, so I also have a stash of phosphated detergents, but I am trying the non phosphate formulas to see how they work.
Chestermike: I have a Dw with a built in softener. It has several programs that are designated as "glass care" which are supposed to help protect your glasses from etching. For these programs it keeps the wash temperature below 131F and it mixes hard and soft water together to prevent the water from being too soft. I have used the non phosphate detergents in these programs and don't have any problem with white film. I alternate detergents each week and so far I have tried Finish all in 1 tabs, Finish powder, and Cascade complete all in 1 powder. All of these non phosphate. The Finish powder is actually better than the old version which contained chlorine bleach. My state banned phosphates in DW detergents effective June 2010, so I also have a stash of phosphated detergents, but I am trying the non phosphate formulas to see how they work.
jerrod6
Well-known member
Sudsmaster:
Several states have made it illegal to sell DW detergent with phosphates, so even if the companies return to phosphate formulas they will be unable to sell them in those states. It would take action at the state level to allow them to be sold again.
Several states have made it illegal to sell DW detergent with phosphates, so even if the companies return to phosphate formulas they will be unable to sell them in those states. It would take action at the state level to allow them to be sold again.
launderess
Well-known member
It's Baaaaaaack!
After my nightly bike ride in the park, ran into local supermarket to get a carton of milk. As usual did my quick walk down the detergent aisle and what did I spy with my little eye? Cascade "Complete" with phosphates (5.5%)was back on the shelf.
Inquired of the stock boy and he said that they were just put out! Was too knackered to think about fetching back several boxes of the stuff (they are rather large),but certianly will be doing so by the end of the week, unless they are all gone.
Even at $7.89 for these large boxes, still better than having to order more STPP, or running my stash low. As one moves away from American detergents to the European variety, find less need for STPP, especially with Ariel Excel gel.
Obviously even before CR's latest issue, P&G was getting an earful regarding their "new" detergents, and sales, (or lack thereof), certainly speak volumes.
After my nightly bike ride in the park, ran into local supermarket to get a carton of milk. As usual did my quick walk down the detergent aisle and what did I spy with my little eye? Cascade "Complete" with phosphates (5.5%)was back on the shelf.
Inquired of the stock boy and he said that they were just put out! Was too knackered to think about fetching back several boxes of the stuff (they are rather large),but certianly will be doing so by the end of the week, unless they are all gone.
Even at $7.89 for these large boxes, still better than having to order more STPP, or running my stash low. As one moves away from American detergents to the European variety, find less need for STPP, especially with Ariel Excel gel.
Obviously even before CR's latest issue, P&G was getting an earful regarding their "new" detergents, and sales, (or lack thereof), certainly speak volumes.
