Cascade phosphate free is getting TERRIBLE reviews by customers!

[combo52]

DISHWASHER CLEANING PROBLEMS WITH NEW DETERGENTS

&GOur company has done well over 100 service calls for poorly performing dishwashers this year alone that we traced to people using no phosphate detergents. I do think it will lead to a surge of dishwasher sales that will last for many years. The new detergents will work quite well if you have very soft water, I think water softener sales well pickup a lot also. I don't think most US manufactures are going to install built-in water softeners in thier machines anytime soon but I do think you will start seeing them on higher end models, I know WP is working on them. You can buy commercial dishwasher detergent which will usually still have phosphates in them, restaurants, schools nursing homes etc were exempted from the ban due to some good lobbying. I think this will become a minor campaign issue in some areas and the ban my be lifted because of voter outrage. And if this is affecting you the best place to complain is to your representatives in your state an in the US congress. I don't think a cure is coming from P etc this has been an issue that the detergent makers have worked on for over 30 years and unless there is a major breakthrough it won't be solved by them.

 

[lovestowash]

Hey Brent...

Motor on down to the Big Lots in Union City...
saw Cascade w/phosphates there last week...
hope they saved you some...
George

 

[gansky1]

My parents have mechanically softened water and noticed the chalky film in their new Bosch within two loads of using the phosphate free detergent. We mixed STPP with the detergent in an airtight container and they're back to perfect cleaning results every time. (the wet, clammy dishes is another issue!)

 

[tomturbomatic]

The other factor in this problem is that the substitutes for phosphates are not as strong as the original phosphates so they take up more room in a given amount of detergent, but the size of the detergent dispenser remains the same so it cannot hold the extra amount of the product needed to clean the load. With washing machines, it was not hard to add an increased amount of detergent to compensate for the weaker builders in the formula, but with a fixed size dispenser in a dishwasher, that is not possible. Of course, with the water usage cut to where they only give one rinse, they probably cannot adequately rinse away any additional dishwashing product. I wonder if they are putting larger dispensers in new machines. This whole effing mess was partly caused because municipalities would not spend the money to upgrade filtration plants to remove phosphates. They lobbied to ban them instead, starting with laundry detergents. The further outrage is that most phosphates and nitrates in our rivers and bays come from farm run-off which is a combination of fertilizer and animal waste. The corporate farming interests have powerful lobbyists in DC to keep any regulations off the backs of these gross polluters. That's in addition to all of the subsidies they rake in. So the miniscule amounts of phosphates that enter the water treatment stream from dishwashers and wind up in the rivers get banned as if that is going to solve anything.

 

[whirlcool]

Our Maytag dishwasher has lines imprinted inside the detergent cup. Each line corresponds to a level of water hardness. You just fill up with detergent to the level of hardness you have. We have 9 grams of water hardness, so we fill the cup to the second line. There is plenty of room for the 1/2 tsp of STPP we use.

The Maytag Users Guide says excessive use of detergent can lead to etched glassware.

 

[a440]

Thanks George,
Will check it out!
Brent

 

[a440]

Hi John,
Thanks for the information.
I think the questions has come up before...but where can you buy the commercial dishwasher detergent? Online? Walk in supply companies?
Thanks!
Brent

 

[rp2813]

Allen, the same issue with detergent dispenser blockage can happen on my Thermador. In fact, the later (I think) racks have an extra bump-out up front so no large pans can be placed there and end up blocking the cups.

 

[golittlesport]

Interesting

Suddenly our dishes were covered with a chalky-like film a while back and so Gary started washing them by hand. He has been lobbying for a new dishwasher, thinking our 10-year old Whirlpool Gold is broken. I checked it out and ran it with some white vinegar to clean it out and told him there was nothing wrong with the machine. I had suspected the detergent he was using (had bought some Amway from a friend) but when we switched to Finish, the problem continued. Now I know to get some STPP.

 

[whirlcool]

And when you use STPP in your dishwasher the insides will sparkle again like new!

 

[gmmcnair]

I haven't really been affected....

....Portland has less than 1/3 of a grain per gallon in our public water. But I really feel for people who aren't blessed with very soft, or mechanically softened water.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Citric acid

I'm almost out of the citric acid powder I have but I've been adding it along with the dishwasher detergent for a long time. I'm using the new Cascade and I'm not seeing the white chalky film on anything unless it was a super dirty pot and pan, and that just wipes right off easily, but I'm wondering if the citric acid I'm using is why? I'm going to buy some STPP next.

 

[labboy]

STTP worked for me

STPP is awesome. As described in another message, I had the same issue in our six month old KitchenAid with the "horrible" new Cascade Complete. 1 tbsp of STPP divided between the two detergent cups (topped off with Cascade) made a world of difference. Our water has hardness of about 14 gr/gallon.

If you have this issue, please post a review at the Cascade website. Hopefully they will eventually do something.

I have been telling friends and neighbors to hopefully save them a service call. It will be interesting what the upcoming Consumer Reports issue with the new dishwasher detergent ratings will show.

I have also seen Glass Magic recently disappear from stores around here. Anyone else seen it go away? Possibly because of the phosphate ban (mostly STPP in Glass Magic)?

http://www.cascadeclean.com/en_US/allinoneactionpowder/readreviews.do

 

[mark_wpduet]

STPP in Glass Magic? I thought that was citric acid? I know citric acid is the main ingredient in lemishine, which is what I have been using....I don't think I have used the new Cascade once without adding the lemishine with it, perhaps that's why I haven't been seeing such bad results, though I'm sure the STPP (phosphates) are much better.

 

[chestermikeuk]

Interesting!!!

Just wondering how many of you experiencing poor results with the new formulation have a water softener built-into your dishwasher??

 

[aussie-plugs]

STPP?

Is that a product name? What's in it? I haven't heard of it here in Australia, so was just wondering.

 

[maytagbear]

Most American built dishwashers, if not all

of them, do not have built in water softeners. That may change.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[chestermikeuk]

Wow...

Thanks, Lawrence, I knew the older ones didnt, but thought the new ones would, wonder if that makes the difference then!!

Just looked at Sears online and could see in their blurb as not having the water softener feature, even the Bosch which was surprised at, but Miele USA do promote it.

So if the formulation is similar to Europe then a lot more complaints will coming forward me thinks!!!

 

[whirlcool]

The link will take you to a page that explains what STPP is.
Not only is it used in detergents and dishwasher detergents, it is also used in food preservation as well.
It's about as toxic a butter or vinegar.

Sodium triphosphate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mrcleanjeans]

Mark, it will greatly diminish the cleaning power of your detergent to add citric acid to it. The citric acid will cut the alkalinity of the detergent by lowering the pH too much. Citric should be separate!