keiththomas
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2009
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- 112
Does anyone know why the new machines are now only cold fill and you cannot get hot fill. In my view odd
Cold Fill
- Thread starter keiththomas
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hotpoint9534
Well-known member
This is because modern machines use such little water that by the time hot water has travelled from your water tank to the machine it has already filled up.
Secondly, machines in continental Europe have always been cold fill only. It's probably cheaper to just build one model with cold fill only for the whole of Europe than having to produce a seperate model for the UK with hot and cold fill.
Lastly, modern detergents are designed to be used with cold fill machines. If you enter hot water at 60c into the machine with no heating up phase this shortens the period at which enzymes are effective, thus cutting down on stain removal.
The old 70s and 80s Zanussis used cold water only on a 40c or 50c wash anyway. They only used hot and cold fill at 60c and hot fill only at 95c.
Hope that helps,
Tom.
Secondly, machines in continental Europe have always been cold fill only. It's probably cheaper to just build one model with cold fill only for the whole of Europe than having to produce a seperate model for the UK with hot and cold fill.
Lastly, modern detergents are designed to be used with cold fill machines. If you enter hot water at 60c into the machine with no heating up phase this shortens the period at which enzymes are effective, thus cutting down on stain removal.
The old 70s and 80s Zanussis used cold water only on a 40c or 50c wash anyway. They only used hot and cold fill at 60c and hot fill only at 95c.
Hope that helps,
Tom.
zodawash
Well-known member
hot and cold
Yes hot fill is a waste of time in a modern front loader. Hot water would be making its way through most peoples pipes and before it gets to the machine its already up to level. So if you've a combi boiler it would be a waste of time even firing up. My old AEG 971 which now resides with Lavamatjon only ever filled with cold unless the temp selector was set to 60 or above.
As Hotpoint9543 said, bio detergents need to start in cold water to get working on the stains properly so filling with hot water is diminishing the performance of the detergent.
I also seem to remember my Miele W820 washed for most of the program in cold water, and only heated up to temp near the end of the wash cycle to make full use of bio detergents.
Steve
Yes hot fill is a waste of time in a modern front loader. Hot water would be making its way through most peoples pipes and before it gets to the machine its already up to level. So if you've a combi boiler it would be a waste of time even firing up. My old AEG 971 which now resides with Lavamatjon only ever filled with cold unless the temp selector was set to 60 or above.
As Hotpoint9543 said, bio detergents need to start in cold water to get working on the stains properly so filling with hot water is diminishing the performance of the detergent.
I also seem to remember my Miele W820 washed for most of the program in cold water, and only heated up to temp near the end of the wash cycle to make full use of bio detergents.
Steve
brisnat81
Well-known member
If you want a hot and cold fill machine, look for those marketed to make use of alternative energy sources.
My W2888 is H+C fill and most of the Mieles are still available on order in that format here, all so you can take advantage of solar, gas or heatpump hotwater.
The Miele fills the sump and activates the ecovalve with cold and then switches to hot fill for fills 50degC or higher. If it detects that the target temp has been reached, it alternates hot + cold
For temps below 50deg C after the sump is full, it starts with cold and then alternates hot and cold until it gets as close as possible to the target temp. It aims to stay below the target temp and then uses the heater to reach it.
For a load of towels on a 50deg Cotton cycle, they'll be too hot to put your hand in by the time it finishes filling and saturating the load, so the load does get hot.
The average fill on a modern front loader is still 10-15 litres, it usually takes .5-1l of hot before our hot tap runs warm.
If you really need an enzymatic process, just use a prewash first.
I've had this machine for 3 years and have never had a problem with stuff not coming clean, so I dont hold much store in the need for a bio phase.
My W2888 is H+C fill and most of the Mieles are still available on order in that format here, all so you can take advantage of solar, gas or heatpump hotwater.
The Miele fills the sump and activates the ecovalve with cold and then switches to hot fill for fills 50degC or higher. If it detects that the target temp has been reached, it alternates hot + cold
For temps below 50deg C after the sump is full, it starts with cold and then alternates hot and cold until it gets as close as possible to the target temp. It aims to stay below the target temp and then uses the heater to reach it.
For a load of towels on a 50deg Cotton cycle, they'll be too hot to put your hand in by the time it finishes filling and saturating the load, so the load does get hot.
The average fill on a modern front loader is still 10-15 litres, it usually takes .5-1l of hot before our hot tap runs warm.
If you really need an enzymatic process, just use a prewash first.
I've had this machine for 3 years and have never had a problem with stuff not coming clean, so I dont hold much store in the need for a bio phase.
hotpoint9534
Well-known member
You would find it very difficult to find a hot and cold fill machine in the UK. The last were the very cheap Indesit models.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
me i notice that in my whirlpool duet when i have to do a hot wash load (bedsheets) hot water comes in temp like warm water and i think the reason for that is maybe because of the energy conservation i think?
hooverzodiac12
Well-known member
isnt it cold fill because aparrently its cheaper on the gas from the hot water service?:S not too sure i was wondering about that on the electrolux.
passatdoc
Well-known member
Some higher end German machines (Miele, Bosch) now offer cold and hot water fill, either to take advantage of solar water heating or of cengtral water heaters that can heat more efficiently/cheaply than a washing machine heating element.
I was an exchange student to Holland 37 years ago. The house, built in the 1960s, had only cold water lines. At each location (kitchen, bathroom) where hot water was needed, they had a wall mounted point of use gas water heater.
Holland is self sufficient in natural gas, so it costs less to use than electricity for the same task. New construction in Holland usually includes gas central water heaters, and hot water from such a source costs less (in Holland) than heating cold water in the washing machine. The hot water intake also allows solar heated water to be used (and then boost-heated to the selected temperature).
Some folks in Scandinavia are using heat exchange by drilling down 10-15 m into bedrock and running water in pipes that deep, bringing up partly heated water. This cuts their heating bills in half. A new home that was built for this system could pipe some of that water to the laundry room for use in the hot water intake of a dual intake washer (the friend in Sweden who installed this system has a 1965 house, so while he can use the bedrock-heated water to lower his heating bills, he can't run the water to his laundry area without major reconstruction).
Here in the USA, even Miele now sells only dual intake machines (that are also only 120V). A good thing, because heating water from cold with 120V would take forever. This way, the heaters only have to engage if a wash temp higher than the hot water line temp is selected.
I was an exchange student to Holland 37 years ago. The house, built in the 1960s, had only cold water lines. At each location (kitchen, bathroom) where hot water was needed, they had a wall mounted point of use gas water heater.
Holland is self sufficient in natural gas, so it costs less to use than electricity for the same task. New construction in Holland usually includes gas central water heaters, and hot water from such a source costs less (in Holland) than heating cold water in the washing machine. The hot water intake also allows solar heated water to be used (and then boost-heated to the selected temperature).
Some folks in Scandinavia are using heat exchange by drilling down 10-15 m into bedrock and running water in pipes that deep, bringing up partly heated water. This cuts their heating bills in half. A new home that was built for this system could pipe some of that water to the laundry room for use in the hot water intake of a dual intake washer (the friend in Sweden who installed this system has a 1965 house, so while he can use the bedrock-heated water to lower his heating bills, he can't run the water to his laundry area without major reconstruction).
Here in the USA, even Miele now sells only dual intake machines (that are also only 120V). A good thing, because heating water from cold with 120V would take forever. This way, the heaters only have to engage if a wash temp higher than the hot water line temp is selected.
