Coming Eventually, the New and "Improved" Super Forum

[rapunzel]

On an additional note!

It is my opinion that discussions in the Super Forum rarely get out of hand. Most of the time people are being cordial and well-mannered. Considering other internet discussion groups, fora etc on the web, there is rarely anything posted that can be considered truly offensive or out of control on AW Org.

I don't, as a rule, participate much in open internet discussion fora. I find it an absolute waste of my precious time, which I don't have much of anyway.

When one reads what and how a lot of people communicate/project their ideas, one can not be blamed for thinking that the vast majority of posters are 14 year olds with too much time on their hands and no parental supervision.

What is even more interesting is the sense of entitlement many people develop when they become serial posters on a particular site. In fact, a lot of what people say and how they say it on the net, can be interpreted as socially dysfunctional, indicative of behavioural issues and pathological.

That's all for now.

rapunzel

 

[spankomatic]

Super Forum Future...

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[little-edie]

censorship.

i say you're adults, if you don't like what some posts, leave the post & start your own. as for kids, it's parent's responsibility to oversee what their children do online. i think this is all weird.

 

[spankomatic]

The Super Forum has been great over the years. I have laughed,cryed,learned and loved from the members on this site in what they share. Yes there have been a few posts that should not have been posted. I posted one a few years ago that I wish I could have just hit "delete" after I posted it. The Super Forum is what we all make it. What we all contrubute to it. It will be what ever it will be. It's Robert's site and I understand why he wants to keep it "G" rated and on topic.

 

[wilkinsservis]

Whilst some off topic discussions may cause distress...

I think it would be a pity if the new arrangements of forums lead to the "gayness" being taken out of automaticwasher.org. I realise there are matters of decency to consider and also the issues of minors accessing the material but I have found it liberating and validating as a gay man to read the posts about the lives and thougts of other gay men who also happen to like washing machines. As has been discussed in the past it does not seem to be merely coincidence that so many gay men are members. The aloneness I felt about liking washers and dishwashers before discovering this site does parallel the experience of "coming out".

 

[rapunzel]

Well the search-engines' and Google's ability to &qu

That is true Toggles, but, this site's theme presently does not give indication of the sometimes mature nature that Super Forum discussions can take on. When some unsupecting pre-teen wants to look at all the pretty machines with mommy or daddy and go exploring the site, there should at least be something to raise awareness that the intellectual content of the Super Forum may not be suited to younger children.

I am acutally not too worried about teenagers of 14 and older. They've already seen and done it all by 16 now. That's why so many are in therapy, because they don't know what else there is left to do. Sometimes I wish I had had access to the net when my hormones were raging. All I had to go with were print publications that stuck together.

cheers

rapunzel

 

[laundryshark]

Laundry Additives and Household Cleaning Products?

Robert et al:

I do understand and appreciate the need for a system that holds us equally accountable and responsible. However, I would like to see a section that is strictly dedicated to what my Subject title reads. As long as participants contribute messages most appropriate to this little section, then why have a closed membership restriction on such an honor section? Now, I can see where security measures are more plausible for a "Miscellaneous" section. My main concern about the Super Forum is that I have to keep skipping past a zillion uninteresting, inappropriate, and off topic threads just to find the ones that serve my best interest, such as what I have titled my Subject right here. I highly respect the views and opinions of others desiring to express themselves in a variety of off the beaten path topics, whether controvercial, X-rated, or not. However, I do strive to contribute the most focused and interesting notes as possible. For instance, I might share a link for a laundry additive update or classic detergent ad. In return, I am open to finding relevant news and remarks about soaps, detergents, and the like. Having a free, but focused honor section would allow me to get right into the very discussions in terms of what we put into those classic or new machines, as well as what we use for kitchen/household cleaning liquids, sprays, etc.

With Best Regards,

Laundry Shark

 

[Unimatic1140]

Wow, lots of good ideas you guys, I do appreciate this all of this great input. We should step back and take some time to think about it all as there is no rush to change anything immediately.

I think it would be a pity if the new arrangements of forums lead to the "gayness" being taken out of automaticwasher.org.
Don't worry about that Peter because the designer and webmaster of this site is so happily gay that it would be impossible to do that

 

[a440]

Robert,
I support what ever you decide.
If anything was to come up "legally" for anything posted here...everyone would run and hide and it would all be on your hands. I totally understand.
I surely do not want for you to have to babysit anything. Maintaining the website is such a task already.
Do what you think is best. It has grown this far with your decisions from the beginning. I know what you decide will be for the best of club. This is what is most important.
I think your idea about the super forum was fantastic from the beginning. We all know what has happened since then.
Thanks for thinking about it and coming up what is best instead of killing it all together. If you choose to do away with it all together I will totally understand.
Peace.
Brent

 

[qsd-dan]

"I think it would be a pity if the new arrangements of forums lead to the "gayness" being taken out of automaticwasher.org."

Why? Sexual preference and lifestyle choices have nothing to do with appliances. Leaning one direction or another will only cause animosity. This site is automaticwasher.org, not gayautomaticwasher.org nor is straightautomaticwasher.org.

I have referred many who enjoy "tinkering" to this site and most are immediately turned off, if not insulted, by the sexual innuendos that fly around here. This should be a neutral place for ALL, young, old, male, female, straight, and gay to feel safe and welcomed to converse about APPLIANCES.

 

[ronhic]

Dan...

I posted a comment earlier and have watched and read with interest the diverse range of comments and feelings that people have posted on this thread and all of them are perfectly valid.

BUT, I find it slightly amusing that there are still people out there that are not accepting of others and their comments...that is a shame really. I may be a 'card carrying' gay man but I am certainly not a 'flag waving' one...and how my partner and I lead our lives is our domain...and one I don't tend to share on forums so tend not to post many/any comments with innuendo...

BUT....

The innuendo that flys around here is tame....very very tame compared to other websites AND compared to what a person can encounter on almost any TV channel in most countries of the world....let alone what teenagers talk about and do from before I even knew what the words meant!

I am not saying that we should really 'let it fly' and be disrespectful to other people, rather the opposite, we should be mindful about what we post....But there is a point where being mindful is almost self-sensorship...

So far, I have not encountered any posts containing foul language...and by that I mean the 'big' four letter words...

...and I have not encountered or read any posts that are sexually explicit as such...

Though I have read some that were pointedly nasty to a couple of individuals which I thought rude and inconsiderate...but hey, they are adults and can ultimately take care of the issues themselves....

Diversity of people, including culture, nationality, religous preferences and sexual preferences is actually what makes the world go around....this website is nothing but a very small version of that and to start being heavy handed, which I doubt that Robert would intend to do, would be to remove some of this diversity and expression....wars have been fought over it people....

As an example, the debate on Health Care Reform was interesting to an outsider. Many of you have posted interesting comments. Others posted information that appeared to be based on hearsay and scaremongering from big business and political parties (we DO get international new here)....but it WAS and IS interesting....and all of your opinions and beliefs are perfectly valid...

....the crux comes when an individual or group try to make their opinion EVERYONES...that doesn't work.

People, be mindful of what you wish for because sometimes it isn't really what you want and/or need....to close out some topics will do nothing, to some degree, but to encourage narrowmindedness....which is the LAST thing I feel that the world currently needs - even our little world here...

Always
Chris

 

[supersuds]

Dear Robert

I would be appalled if we lost the ability to discuss detergents and how to get clothes clean. I've learned so much from Laundress and others.

If you say that this kind of thing is off-topic so be it; it's your site! But for myself, I think of this site as having to do with everything in washing. I also enjoy the postings about other appliances. Losing this base of non-controversial knowledge because of political or other postings, which clearly ARE extraneous, would be a big disappointment. I've learned to skip most of those threads.

It seems to me that most posters would follow instructions to forgo the sexual and political topics. At least it would be worth a try. There are other ways to address the issue as others have outlined, but this would be the simplest of all.

 

[mattl]

Thanks you Robert, glad to hear there will be no rush to judgment.

I'd like to second a suggestion made earlier, increase the reports from 7, to 11, 14, or so which may be more appropriate. It's easy for a small subsection of a group to be offended. That way we are all sort of moderators. The other forum I frequent, AVS, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/ has many many sub sections and a great number of moderators. From time to time things do get off the rails and posts are deleted, noted with a simple one line sentence, and things go back to normal. How about a few trusted moderators here? I know it's your baby but if you need a hand from time to time there is nothing wrong with that.

Stifling the free ranging topics in the Super forum would be a loss for all of us. While political or religious discussions may not change my mind, I will be the first to admit I have now have a much greater understanding of why people feel as they do, and that is a big thing in today's world. That is thanks to the Super forum.

There have been many great discussions, I feel bad that they are lost to obscurity, but they have had an impact on me and broadened my perspective and I thank you, this site, and all that post for that.

 

[travis]

Dan...

I trust that since Robert is a proud gay man that this site doesn't have to go in the closet.

Straight folks have more positive role models and places to interact with. It's nice to be able to chat and share ideas with other members, many of which are gay here. I just don't feel that many would be put off by the references. Maybe we need to tone those comments down, but I wouldn't eliminate them.

Part of what makes this group special is the overall concern for each other. That includes appliance projects, pets, deaths, health, construction, etc. If you restrict the site to just appliance talk 100%, all of us members would look pretty dull in my opinion.

 

[rollermatic]

after reading thru everyone's ideas

here tonite i definately think no sex, no politics, no religion! no off color! i think you need to self censor it, spell it out exactly what can and can not be discussed! keep it to appliance related topics! and if you go with a tip jar then you'll have a very small minority contributing! that's the appeal of the word "tip". it means anyone can find an excuse not to! i find it hard to believe that a few bucks a month would hurt anyone to contribute!

 

[gansky1]

How about we change the "report this post..." button to function like this: When ten people mark a posting offensive, the Super forum goes automatically into neutral drain and every thread drains out the bottom and we go back to thread number 00001. Welcome to the truly NEW and improved Super Forum indeed.

This site will never please everyone who sees it. In nearly ten years, it never has. Does it seem like much of an enjoyable hobby for Robert to be spending his time juggling several complaining emails a day? How about the time spent writing code to upgrade security, new forums or even a "report" button of any sort just to keep a group of people happy? Is that a hobby? This endless flaming, whining, transparent righteousness and fighting would make me want to flip the switch and let the whole thing sputter to a stop.

The rules have always been remarkably simple here; treat others as you expect to be treated. To be more specific, only a smidgen of common sense is required. If you don't want a fight, don't pick one. If you don't like the thread topics, you're holding the mouse - don't click on them. This is a free website, not a textbook with required reading assignments. Pick what you like and leave the rest. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? This logic has worked for almost 10 years from Yahoo! groups through today. Why not give that a shot before 'suggesting' we have something different from a person just looking to share his hobby with others?

 

[whitekingd]

I agree with many above - there are only a very few people who have caused the problem in the Super Forum. If a member cannot discuss a topic, no matter what the subject, without name calling and bad mouthing then they should be removed
FOREVER from the site. I hate to see a few ruin this for the rest of us. I vote Robert does what is easiest, and most effective to solve the problem. I appreciate his time and effort.

 

[rapunzel]

If a member cannot discuss a topic without name calling and

Well, I think removal may be a bit harsh. A number of well-regarded, long-term members are amongst those who are sensitive and, it seems, more easily offended. Although, I don't know them personally, they are probably very decent and otherwise kind individuals. I think that one shouldn't be too unkind. There are people who participate here, for whom this site represents the only opportunity for social interaction, where they can be themselves amongst others who share similar interests; in the relative anonymity of the net.

It takes all types to make this world go round. There is no need to ban members, unless they commit a major transgression against the site or its members. Whingeing, whining, moaning and complaining - well, unfortunately, that is what defines much of the human condition. Like Gansky pointed out, there have always been some who simply cannot be pleased.

May I also point out to Gansky that there is no such thing as common sense, but he probably already knew that. Sorry for pointing out the obvious.

I've had some people here express their dislike over some of the things that I've posted, rightly or wrongly. I've been questioned about the fact that I have no appliances listed in my profile and why I was here. Heck, there were even a couple of emails that I received, where my integrity and worth as member/visitor was questioned by a member or two, who, ultimatly are complete strangers to me. I've never complained to Robert about that or made mention of this in the forum until now - why should I? To me it's nothing more than water off a ducks' back. By allowing myself to be drawn into futile arguments and making a big deal, I am participating in their games. However, as they say, ignore something long enough, and it goes away - usually.

As I have mentioned before, we all need to re-claim ownership over our emotions and how we respond to people here. A little less projecting and a bit more tolerance always go a very long way to a happier co-existence. In view of so many regular members here, I still reckon that there is nothing wrong with us paying a small fee towards the upkeep of this site, especially if it makes life easier for Robert.

rapunzel

 

[polkanut]

It is a sad state of affairs that things have finally come to this. I don't usually post when a topic deals with religion, politics, or matters of a sexual nature because I feel this is not the proper forum in which to air such things. It is sad that 1 or 2 bad apples have the possibility to ruin things for the majority. If a subscription fee is implemented for the Super forum, I may or may not decide to paticipate. I have made a few friends here, and would hate to see something like that change. But alas, Robert does have the final say on what goes here, and I will abide by it, whatever it may be. If someone continually tries to, or does push the envelope, why not just permanently ban them as has been done in the past, rather than resorting to such an extreme measure?

 

[gizmo]

my tuppence worth...

I don't have a paypal account and I'm reluctant to open one. I never give my bank account details over the net and I don't wish to. I also don't like regular periodic payments, I'd prefer to send Robert maybe $20 a year than $1 a month. More to help with running costs than to buy entry into an open discussion forum.

I am a very political person, I love a political discussion and to me it would be a pity to remove political and religious discussions, though I concede it may be necessary for peaceful and smooth operation of this great website.

I like Louis's suggestion about a separate group (like a google group) for these more diverse discussions - something that Robert doesn't have to administer. That group should still have some rules about keeping a discussion civil and not offensive - no sexually explicit or suggestive language, no personal attacks or put-downs. we should be able to have a sensible discussion without getting nasty, shouldn't we?

I was always impressed with the logic of a comment I heard years ago - " I strongly disagree with what you say, but I strongly support your right to say it." Just because someone has an opinion or makes a comment you disagree with doesn't license you to rip into them. KEEP YOURSELF NICE!

I also thought the discussion on health reform a while ago was very interesting, it was quite political but informative too and it would be a shame if that were canned altogether, though that might make a good topic for discussion on an external group.

I would NOT like to see an "open slather" group, either a revised, no rules super forum or an external one. We should be able to discuss things in a mature manner, respect diverse opinions and try not to tread on each other's toes. I do not want to read any more childish name calling, vitriolic attacks or monotonously steering a variety of discussions around to the same old verbal ping pong matches.

Thanks Robert.

Chris.