Con Rpts said what?

[mark_wpduet]

@ washerdude

I think so too - I've never had an impeller top load machine, only the traditional TL of the past and newer FL washers - and there is definitely less lint on the dryer screen than with the traditional TL washer. I will say that over the going on 13 yrs of owning this FL machine, I have ended up with a few random mystery holes in T shirts (not many) But if I'm doing a small colored load, I've been known to throw a pair of jeans in there with them so the zipper could have done it. It's pretty rare overall for me too see a hole in any clothing so I've not given it much thought.

 

[jerrod6]

I wish Consumers Reports  or some organization would concentrate more on rinsing.  My washer drains into a laundry sink and the sink is connected to an inclosed below floor sump pump which then pumps the water up and over to the sewer line.  My sewer line is suspended from the basement ceiling so that's why this i necessary.

 

When I replaced the sump pump it came out covered and dripping in thick black oily grease.   I mentioned this to the plumber and he said that when detergent degrades it turns to thick petroleum goo because some of it's components are derived from petroleum products.

 

After seeing this, I don't want any of this stuff remaining on my clothes or skin.   So I don't mind low water levels for washing but do want adequate water levels for rinsing.  I don't believe current washers are providing enough water to adequately remove detergent. 

 

[rolls_rapide]

@jerrod6

Are you using liquid detergents?

 

[jerrod6]

Rolls

I was using Persil Megaperls for whites and Megaperls for colors and once in a while alternating those with Miele for whites and Miele for colors. All of these are powders.

All of the Miele powders except the one for sensitive skin have been removed from the USA web site so maybe I won't be using them anymore.

 

[rolls_rapide]

The only time that I've ever seen black gunge, is when a machine has gotten mouldy.

Most of the time, the deposits in the sump of the machine and drain hose, tend to be more of a grey clay. I presume this is the undissolved residue from zeolites in the powders.

Do you use fabric conditioners?

 

[tomturbomatic]

What is even more galling is that with this limited water use, they are still advocating cold water washing.

 

[jerrod6]

My oily gunk is not in the washer. It is in the sump pump attached to the laundry sink and the water drains in the basement floor.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Yes, but could the oily gunk be derived of fabric conditioners?

 

[jerrod6]

That could be. I don't know the exact ingredient origin of any detergents or fabric softener. Softeners used to contain animal fat but I don't know what replaced that unless it is silicone.

If it is due to softeners I need to find out what is in Comfort,Vernel,and Miele softeners because that's what I was using at that time.

 

[earthling177]

Jerrod:

I would like to draw your attention to a few things: usually, most fabric softeners are cationic detergents; usually, most laundry detergents are anionic and/or non-ionic; there are some zwitterionic surfactants too, but those tend to be more expensive.

Some surfactants (soap, some old-style fabric softeners) can be made with tallow or even vegetable fats -- that does not mean that they *contain* the original fats anymore, only that the fats were reacted with other ingredients to make the product. The use of vegetable fats and/or tallow as a "fabric softener" per se has been abandoned, as far as I can tell, since the time synthetic detergents were introduced to the public.

Currently, most fabric softeners are made of quaternary ammonium compounds which are cationic surfactants. They work mostly because they neutralize the anionic surfactants in laundry detergents. When dosed appropriately, there'll be little leftover on the garments. When people overdose, you have the classic "towels fail to absorb water". That can also happen when either the detergent or the softener leaves excess silicone (particularly the brands that advertise easier ironing).

The problem you are describing with your pump may come from several places, but I think the chances it came from your laundry products are small. It's more probable it came from fuel oil that seeped, say, from the soil near your basement into the sump, usually from leaking tanks (yours or neighbors'), or even from failing ball bearings in the pump itself which leaked their lubricant (although that would be a much smaller deposit).

In your shoes, I'd first start checking the soil around the sump for fuel oil leaks.

Cheers,
   -- Paulo.

 

[warmsecondrinse]

"Are we using too much water?"

I recall seeing some articles from the UK a few years ago in which it was stated that conventional urinals use far more water per person per year than washers do.

Yes, I know there're many factors involved with calculating water usage by a urinal so numbers vary greatly. However, all were a good bit higher than even the highest washer use estimate. Perhaps one of our UK members has read something about this.

My point is that if the interest in water conservation were genuine, washers and dishwashers would not be such major targets.

 

[rolls_rapide]

Urinals

I've not read anything in particular, but I know from experience.

As most blokes will know, conventional urinals had an overhead cistern, either visible or hidden behind panelling. The cistern usually trickle-filled, and emptied by syphoning, pretty much the same way that fabric conditioner compartments flush in front loading automatics. The problem was that with urinals, gallons of water were wasted throughout the day.

Different organisations and businesses have reached different solutions. Some pubs, hotels and council offices seem to have "Water-Mizer" type valves fitted to the fill pipe of the urinal - I presume operated either by infrared sensor detection, or more usually by a timer.

Government departments have a different policy: switch off the water completely, and call them "waterless"! I kid you not. Periodically the cleaners would pop-in and pour buckets of water with disinfectant solution down the urinals. Chlorine bleaches were banned by the department - only approved detergents could be used.

 

[cuffs054]

Wow Warm, I must be heading for a real problem. Not only does the Tag use no water, but I'm approaching the age when I'll be peeing in my BVD's!  Oh, the humanity!

 

[tomturbomatic]

I read several years ago about this super eco-efficient building with a green roof and the urinals were waterless; they just drained down. Well, with no water to dilute the pee, it ate through the pipes and the bathrooms smelled like something out of the third world. They had had to tear into the walls to redo the plumbing.

 

[mrboilwash]

I think CU`s statment is as usual way too general, lacking the details. There have been water hogs out there which gave excellent results and others that didn`t. Same is true for the frugal washers with more "rubbing action".
But even if it was only propaganda it is still a given fact that some parts of the USA have been facing serious water shortages for a long time. I guess some here just don`t give a s**t whether there`s a single drop left in Colorado River for the Mexicans or not.

Jerrod, my parents have a similar setup in the basement, a chamber with a pump where the washer is connected to because the sewer line is located above.
My Mom is rather frugal with detergent but she loves her fabric softener in abundance. We need to clean out the chamber about once in a year because a lot of lint accumulates which the pump fails to pump out but there is no such thing as black oily slime. I believe your plumber didn`t know what he`s talking about. The phenomenon you describe sounds like you`re having a severe build up of a bio film from a mixture of bacteria, sebum and soil from clothes, detergents, lint and so on. This has in my opinion nothing to to whether the detergents are derived from petrochemicals or from natural fats and oils. I suspect the reason my Mom is not facing a similar problem is because she is doing boilwashes on a regular basis. I wonder if an occasional use of chlorine might solve your problem.

Earthling, I think you are spot on when you say just because detergents and fabric softeners are made from fats and oils does not mean they *contain* the original fats anymore only that the fats were reacted with other chemicals to make the product. One thing I don`t agree with is that the cationic surfactants used as the main "active substance" in FS (those ester quats) are still derived from tallow, palm oil, coconut oil. However mineral oil as a raw material for FS and the resulting cationic surfactant DSDMAC has been fallen out of favour in the early 90s because of poor biodegradability and besides it had a much more pronounced negative effect on absorbance of fibers, but all kinds of natural oils are still used to produce the surfactants.

 

[uncledave]

Wether one is" running out of water" or not is wholly dependent on where you live.

We pay an awful lot for water in Southern California.

We nearly depleted the Sierra system last year and were lucky to have the first wet season in a decade fill everything up. The water municipalities switched us over to the Colorado systems much harder water and its been a relief to go back to the softer water.

UD

 

[jerrod6]

The manual for my machine says not to use chlorine bleach so I don't in the loads,but I do pour It down the sink once a week just so it will go into the pump.

I am no longer going to worry about what's in the sump, it will be what it is. Thank you all for suggestions