Confessions of a Phosphate addict.
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I still have several boxes of phosphated Cascade Complete. Finish Quantum is the best phosphate free formula I've found so far...great cleaning, no white film, no excess foam and good bleaching ability. Only drawback is the price.
whirlcool
Well-known member
It seemed that when Finish Quantum first came out it was very expensive! IIRC, it was something like $9.00 for 12 tabs or something like that. The price has now come down, I have even found a 25 tab box bundled with a bottle of Jet Dry Turbo for $5.00 at Target recently. That's less than .20 per wash.
Cascade really has taken a dive in the ratings. They used to be one of the top brands. I do have a few packs of their phosphated stuff with Dawn in it and it still works good.
Cascade really has taken a dive in the ratings. They used to be one of the top brands. I do have a few packs of their phosphated stuff with Dawn in it and it still works good.
jerrod6
Well-known member
My stash is holding up fine. I alternate detergent brands every week. Last we I used Miele tabs with phosphate, this week I am using Quantum non phosphate tabs. I also use the newer version of Finish powder non phosphate but now with enzymes and that works well too. Mostly I am using the non phosphate detergent and every once in a while I go to the stash and use phosphates for one week. Good old Electra Sol 3 in 1 tabs with phosphate work well too - even though these are several years old.
I only wash completely full loads so that's about a run every other day(no runs on the weekend) so my stash should hold for a while.
I only wash completely full loads so that's about a run every other day(no runs on the weekend) so my stash should hold for a while.
whirlcool
Well-known member
After mixing in STPP with non phosphated DW detergents I have found that the STPP stops the harmful effects of the non phosphated detergent, but is still not as good as a phosphated detergent from the factory.
That's why I am so glad I found the "good stuff" mentioned above.
That's why I am so glad I found the "good stuff" mentioned above.
I have found that
STTP sure has made a difference in laundry, esp for cleaning mineral laden soil from whites, even with relatively soft (4 grain) water.
Haven't had to try non-phosphated DW detergent yet, and since I put away a sizable stash of phosphated stuff last year, it might be many years before I have to try adding STPP to the newer stuff.
In a dishwasher, the water softness out of the tap might make a major difference, as well. More so than with laundry, because in general we don't add mineral soil to our dishware, but it is a common substance present on work clothes etc.
STTP sure has made a difference in laundry, esp for cleaning mineral laden soil from whites, even with relatively soft (4 grain) water.
Haven't had to try non-phosphated DW detergent yet, and since I put away a sizable stash of phosphated stuff last year, it might be many years before I have to try adding STPP to the newer stuff.
In a dishwasher, the water softness out of the tap might make a major difference, as well. More so than with laundry, because in general we don't add mineral soil to our dishware, but it is a common substance present on work clothes etc.
Re: Phosphate "Junkies"
Have to agree with the all members of the "Phosphate Users Anonymous Program".
Earlier the year, I experienced the same "loss of performance" in my 3 yr old Maytag portable dishwasher; cycle options remained unchanged 99% of time (Cascade Complete Powder. normal wash, high temp rinse, no heat dry.
Problem with the Maytag? NO.. after close friend who works for local authorized repair company came over and gave it once over.
Subsequently I begn to read about the formula changes that were Federaly mandated.
Like many if the other members, I started to experiment with other brands and format ie: liquid, powder and the "tabs". After about a month of this "chemistry experiment, I found STTP at my local Ace Hardware.
The rest is all history. My final "receipe" is: 2 Cascade Complete tabs, 1/2 tablespoon of STTP in both main and prewash chamber, Normal Wash with High temp, rinse agent dispenser re-set to "5" ( we have very hard water. Yes, 2 tabs, one tossed on the door and second in the " Main Wash" chamber of the dispenser.
End result was no more pre-rinsing, "yiblets" left in glasses and no more grumbling from my spouse each morning when he pours his glass of orange juice!
Have a great weekend,
Bob
Have to agree with the all members of the "Phosphate Users Anonymous Program".
Earlier the year, I experienced the same "loss of performance" in my 3 yr old Maytag portable dishwasher; cycle options remained unchanged 99% of time (Cascade Complete Powder. normal wash, high temp rinse, no heat dry.
Problem with the Maytag? NO.. after close friend who works for local authorized repair company came over and gave it once over.
Subsequently I begn to read about the formula changes that were Federaly mandated.
Like many if the other members, I started to experiment with other brands and format ie: liquid, powder and the "tabs". After about a month of this "chemistry experiment, I found STTP at my local Ace Hardware.
The rest is all history. My final "receipe" is: 2 Cascade Complete tabs, 1/2 tablespoon of STTP in both main and prewash chamber, Normal Wash with High temp, rinse agent dispenser re-set to "5" ( we have very hard water. Yes, 2 tabs, one tossed on the door and second in the " Main Wash" chamber of the dispenser.
End result was no more pre-rinsing, "yiblets" left in glasses and no more grumbling from my spouse each morning when he pours his glass of orange juice!
Have a great weekend,
Bob
STPP or TSP
redacted[this post was last edited: 8/27/2011-19:03]
redacted[this post was last edited: 8/27/2011-19:03]
TSP
One knows everyone goes on today about STPP and how TSP is "bad", but being as that may several of my vintage commercial laundry manuals recommend the latter as a water softener/builder. True they go on to extoll the virtues of polyphosphates, but if TSP was all one had acess to..............
While TSP is very alkaline, so is washing soda and persons often heave tons of that substance in their washers.
One knows everyone goes on today about STPP and how TSP is "bad", but being as that may several of my vintage commercial laundry manuals recommend the latter as a water softener/builder. True they go on to extoll the virtues of polyphosphates, but if TSP was all one had acess to..............
While TSP is very alkaline, so is washing soda and persons often heave tons of that substance in their washers.
whirlcool
Well-known member
And before painting a room you can wash your walls with TSP to take the gloss off the walls to get better adhesion of the paint! I think it is much to alkaline to use on today's fabrics.
As I recall, TSP is less alkaline than sodium carbonate (washing soda). So one need not worry on that account if boosting detergent with TSP.
The main problem with TSP would be that, like washing soda, it will form a precipitate with minerals in the water or in the laundry. This could show up like lint on fabrics, and like cement on washer parts.
TSP does a great job etching painted surfaces to prepare them for repainting.
However if it is not completely rinsed off, its residual alkalinity could adversely affect the new coat of paint.
I just got through prepping and repainting a badly weathered coat of paint on my garage. I did use a combination of TSP and bleach, diluted, to wash the surface. However I followed that up with a diluted vinegar rinse to neutralize the residual alkalinity.
The main problem with TSP would be that, like washing soda, it will form a precipitate with minerals in the water or in the laundry. This could show up like lint on fabrics, and like cement on washer parts.
TSP does a great job etching painted surfaces to prepare them for repainting.
However if it is not completely rinsed off, its residual alkalinity could adversely affect the new coat of paint.
I just got through prepping and repainting a badly weathered coat of paint on my garage. I did use a combination of TSP and bleach, diluted, to wash the surface. However I followed that up with a diluted vinegar rinse to neutralize the residual alkalinity.
Did Some Further Research
On "vintage" laundry methods using washing soda and or TSP for softening water and "breaking".
It seems long as wringer washersor mangles were the norm neither of the above was "that bad" since laundry was lifted out of wash tubs and the water squeezed out. Even early pony and other H-Axis washers were not a huge problem because well rinsed laundry would be removed and either put through a mangle or into an extractor. Much of the "gunk" settled to the bottom of the tubs and would be gotten rid of when water was changed.
Things changed once automatic washers/extractors became the norm, especially top loaders. Now all those hard water minerals combined with soap/detergent and so froth was often drained through the wash (neutral drain) and or flung about after the first cycle or subsequent cycles depending upon how well the machine drained.
Finally as one has often stated, a trained laundryman didn't just bung heaps of washing soda, TSP or even STPP into a wash wheel. Rather they always aimed for a certain pH level of water and used no more product that would get them there.
On "vintage" laundry methods using washing soda and or TSP for softening water and "breaking".
It seems long as wringer washersor mangles were the norm neither of the above was "that bad" since laundry was lifted out of wash tubs and the water squeezed out. Even early pony and other H-Axis washers were not a huge problem because well rinsed laundry would be removed and either put through a mangle or into an extractor. Much of the "gunk" settled to the bottom of the tubs and would be gotten rid of when water was changed.
Things changed once automatic washers/extractors became the norm, especially top loaders. Now all those hard water minerals combined with soap/detergent and so froth was often drained through the wash (neutral drain) and or flung about after the first cycle or subsequent cycles depending upon how well the machine drained.
Finally as one has often stated, a trained laundryman didn't just bung heaps of washing soda, TSP or even STPP into a wash wheel. Rather they always aimed for a certain pH level of water and used no more product that would get them there.
Phosphates making a comback?
I am finding more and more dishwasher detergent with phosphates....
Kroger brand "Value" with bleach & Phosphates. 65OZ box for $1.99. Bought several.
Asked the stock guy if this was new old stock. He scanned the bar code and said that it was NOS and they have another huge shipment coming soon.
The Kroger brand smells just like the Cascade with bleach.
I wonder if the manufactures have found some loop hole around the new laws?
I bought 4 boxes. Will use and if good will go back and buy more....
Brent
I am finding more and more dishwasher detergent with phosphates....
Kroger brand "Value" with bleach & Phosphates. 65OZ box for $1.99. Bought several.
Asked the stock guy if this was new old stock. He scanned the bar code and said that it was NOS and they have another huge shipment coming soon.
The Kroger brand smells just like the Cascade with bleach.
I wonder if the manufactures have found some loop hole around the new laws?
I bought 4 boxes. Will use and if good will go back and buy more....
Brent
CONSUMER REPORTS TESTS DW DETERGENTS
Just got my October issue this morning and they tested many DW Ds and found most if not all leave white film on glasses in hard water after just 20 washings.
As a big environmentalist myself I do believe that this is the worst thing that was ever signed into law as they should made sure that the new stuff worked before it was required. I tell all my customers that are upset to contact thier legislators, this can be overturned. This might be a good reason for a ballot drive and take it to poplar vote.
In our area new DW sales are up over 25% as everyone that has a machine that is over 5 years old and its leaving film on dishes thinks that the machine is worn out and replaces it. It will also be interesting to see if there is a spike in clogged kitchen and main drain lines in homes.
Just got my October issue this morning and they tested many DW Ds and found most if not all leave white film on glasses in hard water after just 20 washings.
As a big environmentalist myself I do believe that this is the worst thing that was ever signed into law as they should made sure that the new stuff worked before it was required. I tell all my customers that are upset to contact thier legislators, this can be overturned. This might be a good reason for a ballot drive and take it to poplar vote.
In our area new DW sales are up over 25% as everyone that has a machine that is over 5 years old and its leaving film on dishes thinks that the machine is worn out and replaces it. It will also be interesting to see if there is a spike in clogged kitchen and main drain lines in homes.
whirlcool
Well-known member
I've heard that too from neighbors who have a SS interior on their DWs. They are saying that the interior is all streaked and cloudy and therefore the dishwasher must not be cleaning properly. I usually give them a few tablespoons of STPP and tell them to try that and I let them know where to buy it. Usually I'll hear, "and we were getting all set to go dishwasher shopping!". Little did they know that the new dishwasher will do the same thing.
Which DW detergents did CR like the best and what did they say about the lack of phosphates?
Which DW detergents did CR like the best and what did they say about the lack of phosphates?
