Confessions of a Phosphate addict.

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Since I switched to the new Ultra Tide (& Ultra Tide w/ Bleach) for our laundry I haven't felt the need to add STPP to our washer any more - everything seems to come out clean and well rinsed on its own.

No such luck with the dishwasher however. I've tried both the Cascade pacs and the Finish Quantum Powerballs (the absolute best *pre*-ban) and, while both clean non-rinsed dishes pretty well, there's noticible film & residue left after the last rinse post-ban. All it takes is adding about 1/2 tsp of STPP in the main wash cup with a FQP and everything seems to come out perfect.

I wish I had a DW with a built-in softener. Heck, I wish I had a working DW right now - our KA tried to go to its eternal reward twice in the past two weeks, but the extended warranty people keep fitting new parts. Hopefully they can bring it back again Monday....
 
Funny. I have never tried Finish Quantum. I have tried Finish powerball tab and didn't like them at all. Everywhere I have read reviews quantum is fantastic for the most part, unlike the new Cascade formula reviews. Yet some say white film is building using it, so I wonder why all the good reviews? From what I've read, if you have REALLY hard water, the quantum is the best. I tried to look for a sample of it but can't find any.
 
I turned into a hoarder too

Yeah, when I learned that my state was banning phosphate  Dw detergents in June of 2010 I began stocking up.

Right now I have 19 boxes of phosphate Finish quantum tabs - each box is 25 tabs, I have 2 boxes of Miele tabs 60 tabs each box, I have 3 boxes finish red powerball all phosphate and I am in the middle of an 80 tab box of Miele tabs. Probably enough for 1 1/2 years if I ran the Dw every day - but I don't-  only about 3 times a week.  I switch brands up every week.

 

Thing is I also use the non phosphate Finish powder and quantum and red ball and the results are not too bad.  My Dw has a  water softener so that might help prevent the white film.
 
I have found Finish Quantum works really well. The non-phosphate PowerBall tabs caused too much foaming but they seemed to have resolved that with Quantum. When I run out of my stash of phosphated Cascade, I will likely switch to Quantum or start spiking the phosphate free crap with STPP again.
 
I looked at our DW today after a straight week of using Finish Quantum and didn't see any white powder anywhere.

From what I've read, if you have REALLY hard water, the quantum is the best.
We do have moderately hard water, about 11 grains.

We tried the Finish powerballs, and definitely didn't like them. They didn't clean well at all.

Last night we put a glass baking dish with baked on lasagne in the DW using a Quantum tab. This morning it came out perfectly clean along with no water spots.

I HAVE noticed that the Quantum tabs are no longer found everywhere. Our Walmart hasn't had them for quite some time, only the powerballs. I hope they are not going to discontinue them.
 
I have been supplying a friend in Texas with vintage Cascade Action Pacs that have phosphates, but I think she found a dealer closer to home. She probably should get a whole-house water softener, because her water is super hard and it can't be good for inlet valves on her appliances.

Our water, while not that hard, is still hard enough that I must have phosphates for the dishwasher. My personal stash of vintage Action Pacs is enough to run the dishwasher every day for three years. I keep finding more, but it is getting more difficult.

Just the other day I placed my first order for STPP. I'm curious to try it in the laundry to see if it helps soften our bath towels.
 
I've been using STPP in my laundry since I figured out around 2001 that it was the missing ingredient in the Kirkland Clout detergent I used to like so much. Once I saw the dramatic improvement in washing it gave, I was also hooked. I clued in the crowd over at That Home Site on Garden Web. Some still felt it was wrong to use it, despite the fact that the average family flushes more phosphorus down the toilet and garbage disposal than a typical washing machine using phosphated detergent.

Only one quibble with what has been said so far: STPP wouldn't last long in antifreeze. Instead I think what is added to that is TSP. And in Europe phosphate has been phased out of antifreeze there because it forms a precipitate in their very hard water that can clog radiators. Over here I generally use distilled water in my radiator, regardless of the antifreeze formulation (and there are a lot of varying antifreeze formulas on the market today, with color being no reliable indication of what it actually is). Interestingly, silicates are also added to most antifreezes, for the same reason as they are added to laundry detergents: to protect metal parts from corrosion.
 
Silicates in liquids

I don't see any reason why a liquid laundry detergent couldn't have silicates. However it may be that they are not needed in most liquid detergent formulations.

If the label lists "washer protection agents" or similar ingredient, then that means the product probably has silicates in it. However I note that in various ingredient lists (see link below), silicates seem to be associated with the presence of sodium carbonate (washing soda). My conclusion is that sodium carbonate is the main culprit in corrosion of washer parts, and the silicates are added to counter this corrosion.

Liquids usually have sodium citrate added as a water softener instead of sodium carbonate. I'm guessing that sodium citrate either doesn't attack washer parts like sodium carbonate does, and/or it has some built-in protection against such corrosion to begin with.

http://www.pinstripesandpolkadots.com/detergentchart.htm
 
What on earth are you people washing in your dishwashers that you need phosphates? I use non-phosphated Cascade Complete powder in my Miele La Perla and everything comes out clean as a whistle. In fact, it's impossible to get the dishes any cleaner. Do you guys have really hard water or put chocolate cakes in your dishwashers? LOL
 
No, just regular dinnerware, flatware and cooking utensils.

The reason we use phosphates is that so far the non-phosphated DW detergents leave white spots on your washed items. Then it leaves a coating or white film all over the interior of the dishwasher. And it also ruins aluminum cookware, turns it black.
Use a phosphated detergent one time and all of this goes away.

The reason you are probably not experiencing this is because your Miele has a water softener built into it. Most American machine do not.
 
So Excited!!!

I am so happy! By chance or should I say luck, I found 50 boxes of the original Cascade with Phosphate with Bleach for $3.50 a box. They are 75 Ounce boxes! Most were still in the original cases! The cashier looked at me like I was crazy when I got to the check out. She asked if I was going to buy all of them. I just looked at her and said I have a lot of dishes to do.
Funny how much I missed this wonderful smell! By luck I had two dishwashers filled that I was going to run tonight when I got home. The whole house smelled wonderful.
I have been using the STTP mixed with regular detergents. I found it worked better, but not as good. Not sure if that was in my mind or not.
Can you tell I am on cloud 9?
Brent
 
I Hit The Motherload Today..

We were out to pick up dog food and I noticed a Dollar Store right next to the PetSmart store. So after we picked up the dog food, we went into the independent Dollar Store. It looked like a Chinese Bazaar inside, and was operated by some Chinese women. We looked around and when we got to the detergent aisle, I was floored!

They had cases and cases of the Original Green Boxed Walmart Great Value DW detergent! This is the good phosphated stuff that Consumer Reports gave a "Best Buy" to.

I counted 10 cases and the woman said they have more in the back. And they were selling the boxes for $1.00 each! (64oz box)I couldn't believe my luck! So we bought 12 boxes, which should last us over a year!

I quickly shrunk wrapped the boxes and put them in our closet. They should stay nice and dry there.

What a find, eh?
 
What a find for you.
smiley-cool.gif
  We are down to about 5 months for us but I do have the phosphate to add.
 
It's been just over a year since the phosphated stuff went away. How is everyone's stash holding up?
Do you think that the manufacturers have come up with a suitable solution for phosphate replacement yet?
 
From what I have seen online, the Finish Quantum seems to be the best phosphate-free detergent available. Just about anything seems to work with my water/dishwasher, but some friends were having problems with the phosphate-free Cascade powder. They switched to the quantum and they have been very happy with it.

I have noticed that the Finish Quantum has better bleaching abilities than phosphate containing Cascade. The stains from white cutting boards are not completely removed with the Cascade, but come out completely white with the Quantum.
 
I have been lucky to find quite a bit in the Atlanta area.
Yes I know I do sound like a hoarder....
I now have 90 75 Oz. boxes of Cascade Complete with Phosphates and Bleach.
The total for all of these boxes so far has been about $130.00. I am not complaining in anyway! Esp. when I see this same exact stuff for sale on Ebay and Amazon for on average at $25.00 or more a box!!!
I think I will be okay for awhile.
I just can't pass it up when I find it!
Brent
 

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