Consumer Reports: Samsung Waterwall Dishwasher Flunks Test

[combo52]

Is It Really Surprising That This DW Does Not Work Well ?

The Koreans, Japanese, Chinese and several other Asian countries are not know for great innovations, Yes they have built some great products, but most of what they built was a copy of things that were conceived elsewhere.

This CRs report comes out at a great time, just last week I was at our appliance wholesaler and the owner was out in the warehouse talking to this cute young salesman who was the Samsung rep. He asked me if I had seen the new Water-Wall DW and what I thought of it, I told him that I had not had any direct experience with it , but was very skeptical as Samsung DWs had a terrible reputation out in the field for reliability and being difficult to impossible to repair. He was very surprised and I suggested we take a walk over to the scrap side of the WH and see the 3 SS DWs that I had just seen on the scrap pile a few minutes earlier. He was very surprised that 3 out of about 12 total DWs on the scrap pile were SSs, none older than about 5 years.

Hopefully I will run into him again, LOL.

 

[murando531]

Right now, our society is in this "make it different just because it's been the same for a long time" trend, failing to educate themselves and see that sometimes, things are as good as they'll be just as they are, unless humans somehow discover a way to change the physics of the natural world. This "water wall" concept has been tried before, as have spray tubes and mechanical gyrating contraptions and the like, and the simple yet perfect rotating spray arm always stays.

You see this trend in a lot of things lately, from computer electronics to cars to appliances. People are being brought up with the misconception that if the advertising and brochures and manuals say a product will do "this, this and this", then by god that's exactly what it does and there's no need to question it. Gone are the days when cars and appliances are considered investments; instead they're just disposable tools to be replaced at the first sign of malfunction. Newer generations are no longer encouraged to learn about the machines they use every day, only to look for the shiniest, most expensive thing they can find, the more gimmicks the better.

I feel that some companies feed on this kind of ignorance. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one day soon, you'll be expected to put your clothes into a gorgeous, shiny machine with lots of buttons and "gadgets", and behind the closed door all that will happen is some tumbling to give the illusion of operating sounds, and the clothes will get spritzed with glorified Febreze. Those who have this "I don't care how it's done as long as they seem clean" mindset won't know the difference, which sadly is a large percentage of our society today.

 

[roto204]

"…not in real world, everyday use."

I looked at what CR was testing with, and I'd kill that thing in a heartbeat. I don't put whole cakes in the dishwasher, but I pre-rinse nothing and only scrape if it's something--like piles of potatoes or rice--that would clearly wreak havoc in the GE. The dishes that CR showed in the racks looked tame by comparison.

I put the whisk from our KitchenAid, festooned with potato skins wrapped all around every part of it, in the bottom rack, and after one Heavy Wash cycle, the GE had expelled all but a few very clean skins from the machine and right down the drain. The whisk itself gleamed, and had nary a yiblet on it--nor was any of that up in the top rack in or on the glasses. I probably would have caused the Samsung to catch on fire.

I think this is a classic case of inadequate water and the consequence of the new wash system. If they took a page out of Whirlpool's or Frigidaire's playbook and put in a nozzle to help shoo stuff into the sump, it might help. Most wash arm machines these days with this type of sump configuration still seem to have filter-cleaning jets somewhere. I agree with Malcolm--maybe it's loosening too much crap too fast, and there's not enough water flow to sheet everything down into the sump. I think they'll need some wash system redesigns rather than a software patch to allow the machine to soldier on.

I do think this is a very novel system, and agree that I miss the panoply of designs that used to exist before everything became totally homogeneous.

Oh, and sorry for cursing that GE/WCI thing in my other post. ;-)

 

[iej]

I was in Currys, major appliance retailer here and I opened a fairly fancy looking Samsung dishwasher and the edges of the door area were so sharp they actually felt like they'd almost cut me and it was *MORE* expensive than the Miele next to it.

 

[tomturbomatic]

This type of filter, in both residential and commercial dishwashers, is usually under some amount of water during the water circulation periods so that food particles would not be sucked right against it and, in many cases, would have a coarse filter over a finer filter. It would again appear that insufficient water is being used. Soil that heavy should have either had a heavy soil cycle selected which would give a prewash to dispose of some of it or soil buildup on the filter should trigger a drain, flush and refill, but then you have complications with needing additional detergent.

What is the purpose of the stationary jets at the back spraying forward? Maybe they should be redirected to keep the filter clear.

 

[washman]

murando531 your post is refreshing

Glad to see somebody beside myself questions all this happy horsedung feel good gee whiz it's new so it HAS to be better.

For that matter, one could argue Frigidaire " matic" washing mechanism was definitely different. The differences between then and now is 1. It worked and 2. The goobermint did not force it on anybody.

Which is why this abortion of a dishwasher ties in directly to the eco-sanctioned HE washing machines. No one, not one person I have discussed this with, wants to accept, realize, understand that it takes water to do laundry. Just like it takes expensive gasoline to make your car go. We may not like it, but hey, that's they way it is. And murando531 is spot on with his comment about people not questioning much these days.

If all this eco-crap was so good, then why in the name of heaven, did a manufacturer not come out with this years ago? Think about it......Acme Washer Co introduces a low water use machine that does the job in the same amount of time as a traditional TL but uses lots less water and energy doing it. And it cleans just as well w/o expensive special detergent and does not need "refreshed" periodically.
I would like to think that the market would go ga-ga over that. In other words, it would have to actually WORK before people would buy it. Just like the "matic" Frigidaires of days gone by.

But they don't. Not really anyway. And these eco-smart dishwashers are the latest design abominations that are not a result of a "better mousetrap" but rather the result of ill-conceived laws and regulations. And the sad thing is, no one was asked about it. Just hack out a deal, make it law, and by golly that's it.

Seems odd that every decade we have some sort of "crisis" that requires massive goobermint involvement. First it was the war on poverty, then the war on pollution, then the war on healthcare, education, obesity, no child left behind, war on terror, war on this war on that. Please..........stop before I OD on these declarations of "war" on what seems to ail us.

Now we have climate change (previously knows as Global Warming). Any weather event, no matter how innocuous, gets blown wayyy out of proportion and..........well gee........we need to "blame" it on someone.........uh let's try humanity. Yeah, that's the ticket! So unimaginable amounts of money is wasted on focus groups, opinion polls (most of which are BS), government grants, "awareness" campaigns, print media, and yes of course, adorning a non elected group of pencil pushers to force these horrible machines on us because (see "humanity" above)we're all too dumb, too ignorant, too caught up in our own lives to see the so-called big picture.

And to paraphrase the late, great George Carlin, this is the best we can do folks. These people did not drop in from another planet, they are the same people as the rest of us only now they've grown egos as big as all outdoors. Hubris has taken hold and we simply must trust them to put laws in place to save us from ourselves.
Voter input is not needed nor is it necessary.

And despite all of this, no one questions it. Nobody at all.

How sad.

 

[mrb627]

Consumer Reports

should start putting GO-PRO cameras in these machines to actually see what is going on.

Malcolm

 

[joe_in_philly]

It sounds like the problem was that the dishwasher was programmed to display an error. I would expect a programming change to the cycle could correct the problem. It could start the cycle with less pressure, and once it notices that the water is getting too dirty, immediately change the water before it gets worse. That is basically what my Bosch does.

It starts with a partial fill, and sprays at a reduced strength. If it is really dirty, it will drain and fill again. It is isn't too dirty, after about 5 minutes it will fill the rest of the way and begin the prerinse. Depending on how dirty the water is, it may drain again before the main wash, or simply open the detergent cup and start heating the water for the main wash.

 

[DADoES]

<blockquote>What is the purpose of the stationary jets at the back spraying forward? Maybe they should be redirected to keep the filter clear.</blockquote> Tom, the rear jets spraying forward are the water source for the Waterwall mechanism.  The jets are aimed at the moving bar, deflected upwards by it.

 

[jerrod6]

A prewash before the wash might help but

Wasn't this problem in the prewash and not the main wash?  I don't know what the answer is but I don't want this machine. 

 

[washer111]

I mostly agree with Washman's opinions.

However, at the risk of derailing the subject matter, I'll add this:
It takes "just" 0.59 gallons per fill for our DishDrawer to operate, yet it can wash a full load in 60 minutes, 90 if you include the "eco-drying" they use for the machine by default.
Surely, just doubling this water quantity per fill would be enough to fix the problem - but I don't know how effective that would be...

Getting back on topic, I think its disgraceful that Samsung not only builds rubbish dishwashers, but puts "Platinum-Pricing" on every product they release, when they are far inferior to many German/European designs (Miele, Bosch, Asko etc).
It is also disgraceful that a modern filtration system won't self-clean, like so many "manual-clean" designs used by the Europeans

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Sam Hung's Innovation Pipe Dream:

Someday if all the bugs get worked out and THIS really does become some sort of Industry Standard (but, God knows, "If!", it does...) maybe SAM HUNG (and what ever other makes want to try to better this hopeless contraption--Electrolux?!) this will someday make our Picture Of The Day...!

-- Dave

 

[washman]

I believe

that consumers would settle for a machine that works. Is that too much to ask?

 

[tolivac]

I would want a dishwasher to WASH THE DISHES-not spray them with food muck water staying in the tub sump-the machine doesn't flush out the food remains from the dishes.Using this washer-its like cleaning your gun with a dirty patch and ramrod!And the roaches and ants would love that stuff in the filter-WAIT!!!they can help you by cleaning the filter for you in between loads!

 

[mieleforever]

Somehow I think Samsung is being very clever. They have created a name/brand with a huge croud, mostly younger buyers, and a lot of them is Samsung cellphone users, that specific croud is now slowly starting to grow up and will be buying more appliances. More importantly the brand will be recognised. They have even started at the tender age of 1year and upwards with their marketing campaign. Why I am saying this, well in the town where we live there is a very upmarket preschool, and Samsung have started to market their brand in the school, by building a little Samsung shop in the school for the children to play in. The Children in return will demand from their parents the Samsung cellphone/tablet/washer/whatever.

They have sucsesfully embeded in them that one should constantly be changing youre appliances every few months (the same as you would change a cellphone) and always be on top of the newest software update. I furthermore agree with Washman, as to the fact that what is new is not necessarily better.

So there you have it folks Samsung will eventually take over the world whether we like it or not.

I don't like their products because IMHO it is inferior, but that's just me.

Cheers!!

 

[richnz]

Why the cryptic error message?

Why doesn't the machine just say "CLEAN FILTER"?

 

[mrb627]

Error codes

I agree! In this day and age of electronic everything, let's do away with these stupid ass error codes and just display what is wrong. Isn't that supposed to be the advantage to computer controls?

Malcolm

 

[tolivac]

I can go along with that!!!Just be simple and direct-no beat around the bush codes-"Clean filter!!"Or since its so "automatic" why doesn't IT clean the filter ITSELF??I would think it would be a simple matter for a clever company like Samsung to come up with something to flush the grunk out of the filter after the wash cycles!

 

[henene4]

@tolivac

I guess, if the filter is that clogged, this would mean the wash water wouldn't be dirty after all as all the dirt is caught in that filter. So, I guess, the filter design had to be that effective so the high pressure WaterWall® nozzels would not clogg up.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

What's really needed is a counter-action to dispose all the dirt on the dishes as it's washed off...

There needs to be a water flow at the bottom of the tub and an active diposal system, that way there will be no gunk left at the bottom, and it hopefully won't spray back on the dishes...

If something like this can be engineered into this dishwasher, though, it would have to be cost-effective and hopefully, w/ the potential complexity, work!

-- Dave