BTW, this is a cooktop with sensors in the centre of the front burners. The front burners are thermostatically controlled.
Convection element
- Thread starter Chetlaham
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I thought there were British ovens where the cook-top heated the stove or something like that? Most likely I miss heard.
BTW- thanks for the sensor pic!
BTW- thanks for the sensor pic!
Perhaps, but they would be older if so. This one has four electric solid burners and two ovens.
Two ovens- got it.
Back element or just convection?
Back element or just convection?
I guess you missed my description before. The top oven is a regular oven, there is also a grill in that oven, I guess you would say broiler. The bottom oven is a fan oven or convection oven as it is called in American English.
Just got confused when you said grill... I assumed the cooktop rather then a broiler. My mistake on that.
Range in post #22
ALL four top burners have thermostats built into the surface elements, ALL cast-iron elements like this have two elements and a thermostat that cycles one element off to keep the surface temperature around a maximum of 850F when using the element on high heat.
The only CI elements that do not have this built-in thermostat are ones that have an exposed thermostat that is spring loaded and contacts the bottom of the cooking vessel.
Thermostats are a very necessary part of any well performing and safe range.
John L.
ALL four top burners have thermostats built into the surface elements, ALL cast-iron elements like this have two elements and a thermostat that cycles one element off to keep the surface temperature around a maximum of 850F when using the element on high heat.
The only CI elements that do not have this built-in thermostat are ones that have an exposed thermostat that is spring loaded and contacts the bottom of the cooking vessel.
Thermostats are a very necessary part of any well performing and safe range.
John L.
"Thermostats are a very necessary part of any well performing and safe range."
Well, that is contradicted by the millions of Calrod units that have zero thermostatic control with the infinite switch set to high virtually eliminating any cycling.
Yes I know UL just recently required that Calrods have a T-stat, but that is from careless inviduals who IMO should not be cooking to begin with. Anytime your oil or fat smokes you are way off, and ingesting something that is toxic if you ask me.
Well, that is contradicted by the millions of Calrod units that have zero thermostatic control with the infinite switch set to high virtually eliminating any cycling.
Yes I know UL just recently required that Calrods have a T-stat, but that is from careless inviduals who IMO should not be cooking to begin with. Anytime your oil or fat smokes you are way off, and ingesting something that is toxic if you ask me.
These burners don't cycle on and off and they have only one element. The knobs of these burnes most of the time have 7 positions: . 1 . 2 . 3 and 0. There is no safety feature, no automatic shut off when temperatures get too high. Here is a new Smeg cooktop (or hob as it is called in British English).
https://www.vandenborre.be/elektris...ductiekookplaat/smeg-se-435-s?type=attributes
Here is a translation of a part of the product sheet:
https://www.vandenborre.be/elektris...ductiekookplaat/smeg-se-435-s?type=attributes
Here is a translation of a part of the product sheet:
How do you achieve 7 wattage with one element? Triac control?
Reply #37
Hi Louis, I say they do have over heat protection thermostats in each element.
Glass top cooking elements also all have thermostats built into the elements to keep maximum glass surface temps around 1000 F.
These built-in thermostats in CI elements are a major reason why Europe used so many CI elements as they are safer and this is required in much if not all of Europe.
John L.
Hi Louis, I say they do have over heat protection thermostats in each element.
Glass top cooking elements also all have thermostats built into the elements to keep maximum glass surface temps around 1000 F.
These built-in thermostats in CI elements are a major reason why Europe used so many CI elements as they are safer and this is required in much if not all of Europe.
John L.
And I also don't get why people keep bring up no automatic shutoff- most calrods don't have it either.
Curve ball
Here is a 1,100 watt element that does no go through the T stat
Here is a 1,100 watt element that does no go through the T stat
According to the link only the fast heating CIs with the red dot have overheat protection.
https://www.hea.de/fachwissen/kochfelder/elektrokochstellen-aufbau-und-funktion
https://www.hea.de/fachwissen/kochfelder/elektrokochstellen-aufbau-und-funktion
Your link
I like what I'm seeing! Sending hugs your way
https://translate.google.com/transl...felder/elektrokochstellen-aufbau-und-funktion
I like what I'm seeing! Sending hugs your way
https://translate.google.com/transl...felder/elektrokochstellen-aufbau-und-funktion
John,
According to the link mrboilwash posted, only the burners with the red dots have overheat protection. But that has not always the case AFAIK. Older ones had a bit of a different design I think.
BTW look at the Smeg cooktop, according to the specifications it doesn't have overheating protection at all.
According to the link mrboilwash posted, only the burners with the red dots have overheat protection. But that has not always the case AFAIK. Older ones had a bit of a different design I think.
BTW look at the Smeg cooktop, according to the specifications it doesn't have overheating protection at all.
I was wrong though about the number of elements. There are apparently three elements in each burner, the controls turn one or more on depending on the setting and so different temperatures are achieved.
Thermal Limiters On CI Sealed Elements
I am not going to get into pissing contest but to not have a TL the element would have to be very low wattage probably less than 600 watts.
Everyone I have ever seen sold here in the US has one built-in, and I find it hard to believe that our safety standards are that much tougher here.
It is easy to confirm the presence of these BILs, just power up the element on the highest heat and take a amp draw reading and in 10 to 20 minutes you will see the amp draw drop to approximately 1/2.
These limiters are built-in to the element assembly and are not serviceable and often do not even show up on wiring diagrams, but they have to be there to prevent damage to the range top or the element itself.
John L.
I am not going to get into pissing contest but to not have a TL the element would have to be very low wattage probably less than 600 watts.
Everyone I have ever seen sold here in the US has one built-in, and I find it hard to believe that our safety standards are that much tougher here.
It is easy to confirm the presence of these BILs, just power up the element on the highest heat and take a amp draw reading and in 10 to 20 minutes you will see the amp draw drop to approximately 1/2.
These limiters are built-in to the element assembly and are not serviceable and often do not even show up on wiring diagrams, but they have to be there to prevent damage to the range top or the element itself.
John L.
Not interested in a pissing contest, but it is definitely in the German text in the link. And that is mainly based on German appliances, back then there were a lot of national companies, not working to certain standards. The high power burners mentioned in the German thread were introduced here in the mid sixties, at the same time "sensi-temp" burners were introduced, something you had much earlier.
The European market was quite different back then. In the past we established that a small country like the Netherlands (just over 10 million people) had many appliance manufacturers (I forgot how many washing machine factories there were in the mid 50's, but it might have been something like 70 or so) Just compare it to NYC having 60 washing machine factories. Safety standards were probably not as good as in the USA back then. The European Union has done a lot in that matter. Every country had it's own manufacturers and also had their own safety standards (which weren't that good). Even until today there are some Dutch manufacturers that still only make products for the Dutch market.
The European market was quite different back then. In the past we established that a small country like the Netherlands (just over 10 million people) had many appliance manufacturers (I forgot how many washing machine factories there were in the mid 50's, but it might have been something like 70 or so) Just compare it to NYC having 60 washing machine factories. Safety standards were probably not as good as in the USA back then. The European Union has done a lot in that matter. Every country had it's own manufacturers and also had their own safety standards (which weren't that good). Even until today there are some Dutch manufacturers that still only make products for the Dutch market.
Don't forget the 1,100 watt Whirlpool element not hooked up to a stat.
What Whirlpool? Whirlpool hasn't been mentioned before in this thread.
Interesting Stove Designs Reply #49
Yes indeed Louis, the number of interesting designs that were out there years ago would fill a book.
My first real experiences with Solid Cast Iron elements were in the 80s when these European elements made a brief splash here so all my comments only apply to the 80s on.
Because all the CIEs sold in the US were temperature limited they could mount them directly in porcelain or even tempered glass cook-tops without fear of damage or breakage.
John L.
Yes indeed Louis, the number of interesting designs that were out there years ago would fill a book.
My first real experiences with Solid Cast Iron elements were in the 80s when these European elements made a brief splash here so all my comments only apply to the 80s on.
Because all the CIEs sold in the US were temperature limited they could mount them directly in porcelain or even tempered glass cook-tops without fear of damage or breakage.
John L.
Whirlpool-
My mistake. Bad reference to post #42.
Whirlpool has several flat cooktops and ranges where the 1,100 watt element does not go through the limiting thermostat.
I was wondering why that is. But hey, thanks for the inspiration Whirlpool
My mistake. Bad reference to post #42.
Whirlpool has several flat cooktops and ranges where the 1,100 watt element does not go through the limiting thermostat.
I was wondering why that is. But hey, thanks for the inspiration Whirlpool
But when I look at the scheme, it looks like there is a switch that cycles on and off when hot. That is a kind of safety feature, a thermostat. I may be only on the bigger element, but it is still the same burner, right?
Variable switch yes- but I'd imagine it does not cycle much when set to high.
Same burner yes.
Same burner yes.
To give you an idea, here is the range and the burner being changed out:
norgeway
Well-known member
All this stuff!
Is too complicated I will keep my 59 Westinghouse I can bake on any rack, load the oven full and still have even browning , No convection needed I don't NEED new technology to be able to cook.
Is too complicated I will keep my 59 Westinghouse I can bake on any rack, load the oven full and still have even browning , No convection needed I don't NEED new technology to be able to cook.
Let Me Repeat
ALL, smooth top and CI electric surface elements have a thermostat that limits maximum surface temperature, Chet you have not showed us one yet without a thermostat.
John L.
ALL, smooth top and CI electric surface elements have a thermostat that limits maximum surface temperature, Chet you have not showed us one yet without a thermostat.
John L.
Look at the tech sheet and pic I posted. The 1,100 element does not have a stat.
