Dishwasher Detergent Blues....

[danemodsandy]

LOL!

"hard water is a fairly significant issue"

FAIRLY significant, Ben?

God forbid anyone in this town ends up with dentures, because they'd have to chip their teeth out of the glass every morning! ;-)

 

[launderess]

Water Softeners In Dishwashers

Methinks the reason they never caught on for the United States market is that most homes or businesses in hard water areas just simply install whole house systems rather than on an appliance by appliance basis.

Water softeners have been around since the 1930's or so and even if not in common domestic use places that used lots of water such as commercial laundries would have them installed. Afterall when soap was the main "detergent" for wash day having already softened water not only saved costs in soap but made allot of other things easier as well.

Remember watching the film "Mr. Blanding Builds His Dream House" and the man balking at the cost of installing a water softener for the house. IIRC they were moving from Manhattan to either LI or some such surburban address.

 

[ozzie908]

Whole house softeners

Would be harder to fit to old properties as you are supposed to have a Non softened supply to cook and drink this would mean a whole lot of bother.

A new build would be a good idea where the water causes damage to plumbing and machines etc as all pipes are done to begin with.

I do recall a residential home I cooked in had a water softener fitted what no one told them was how the treated water would dislodge any calcified lumps so when the water had removed the lumps out the old pipes they all leaked like sieves lol..

Austin

 

[maytagbear]

There is a way

and that is to just route the whole house water softener through the hot water.....that is: softener > water heater > dishwasher, clothes washer, tub/shower.

Now, it is possible here in the States to get potassium pellets instead of salt pellets for water softening, which eliminates the risk of sodium overload for those (like me) who have a high sodium/high blood pressure thing going on.

When I have a house again, I plan on having a water softener, and the routing above is how it's going to be.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[rolls_rapide]

You are not supposed to drink softened water, due to the sodium content. Apparently, a whole-house water softener must leave an untouched feed to at least the kitchen sink tap.

Recently, softened water was linked to Scotland's poor heart health.

A dishwasher softener is very beneficial: the detergents form insoluble compounds with limescale.

The Bosch machines have a very frugal salt consumption, based on an 'as needed' usage. Cheaper, other machines tend to consume a lot of salt. For example, the Indesit/Hotpoint machine of my mother's, uses a full salt container every 5-6 weeks on its lowest setting. My Bosch Logixx uses a full container ONCE every year, set at the medium setting.

If the US water supplies vary so much from region to region, you would imagine that it would make sense to supply dishwashers with softeners built in, allowing the consumer to adapt to local conditions. I find it odd that they are still a rarity in the States.

 

[danemodsandy]

Rolls:

A dishwasher with softening capability built in would end up lasting longer than most American dishwashers do nowadays (heavy limescale is very hard on dishwashers), a situation that would give any U.S. appliance manufacturing CEO a hemorrhage.

"Ending is better than mending....ending is better than mending....ending is better than mending...." - Aldous Huxley

 

[whirlykenmore78]

Whole house softeners.

Are quite common here in MN. If you live outside of a major city water system such as Minneapolis or St. Paul or some of the inner suburbs that soften the water in their treatment facilities. Most groundwater here is between 20 and 25 grains hardness. I have seen dishmachine tank heat elements build up a thick crust of scale in one day of the restaurants softener being down.
WK78.

 

[mikeklondon]

Think it may be down to the 110 volts in US

Hi all I was talking to someone about this last-night as we are planing a refit of the house an our adviser told us that we can't plumb a DW to the hot feed as the softener would not work. I asked him about DW's in the US and he said its all down to the 110 volts in the US, built in heater would take to long and thats why they are connected to the hot feed but this means you cant use a built in softener. Not sure if he's right, but he nearly always is

 

[sudsmaster]

It's my impression (from reading, of course) that the sodium in softened water is inconsequential for just about everyone excepting those who have been prescribed extremely low sodium diets. And if one is really worried, there are whole house water softeners that work just fine on potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride.

 

[ozzie908]

Just a thought but would ....

One of those magnetic scale watchers work?

They alter the polarity of calcium deposits thus making it unable to adhere to itself causing calcium build up so if one was installed before the feed to the machine would that help remove the problem?

Like I say just a thought and it is early on a sunday morning

Austin

 

[rolls_rapide]

"...we can't plumb a DW to the hot feed as the softe

He is blethering.

A dishwasher with its own softener can be plumbed into the hot water, provided that the water temperature does not exceed 60°C. So says Bosch in the user manual, and a few others also, Miele I think too.

 

[mikeklondon]

Early UK Dishwashers

Our hot water is a bit above 60c the boilers set to 76c, so it may be a problem. I can remember early DW's over here with out water softeners and they did not work that well, I cant remember if they used rise aid or not but you had to pre wash 1st and polish when you unloaded to remove the film and spots but London has very hard water. Our early machines only had one rota in the base as well so if you washed pots in the lower rack it would not wash the load in the top rack so most people washed the pots by hand and put large plates ect in the lower and cups small plates in the top. It was hard to get a real DW here with WS and 2/3 rota's until the very late 1960's

 

[bwoods]

water softeners are common

When I lived in Ohio, the city water in my town had a hardness level of about 23 grains/gallon. My parents house was built-in 1954 and they had a softener installed as soon aas construction was completed.. My aunt and uncle, who lived nearby, had a softener installed in 1950. Most houses in the neighborhood had a central water softener.

So they were common in the 1950's (at least in Ohio) in hard water areas. It makes little sense to by a dishwasher with a softener and have calcium buildup in your hot water tank, bathtub, sinks, faucets, pipes.

I think that's why, in the U.S. dishwashers with softeners are not generally marketed. Why spend the extra money had have this ability on your dishwasher, for with probably the same expenditure, when you could have your whole house supplied with softened water and have clean fixtures, clean appliances and much cleaner laundry.

 

[magic_clean]

Whole house

water softening makes the most sense of course. Who would not want the benefits of softened water? However, there are many situations where a plumbed in water softener is impossible due to the construction of the home. I.E. multi-family homes, condominiums, townhouses etc.