My understanding is that chlorine bleach and enzymes are not compatible together so a product cannot have both.
Dishwasher Detergent Test - Phosphated vs Regular
- Thread starter whirlcool
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My understanding is that chlorine bleach and enzymes are not compatible together so a product cannot have both.
DADoES
Correct, bleach generally denatures enzymes in my understanding.
Correct, bleach generally denatures enzymes in my understanding.
Before they all went phosphate free in the US, I remember CR's highest-rated detergent was Cascade Complete gel (with enzymes, no bleach). I used to use it and it worked very well. After the reformulation to phosphate free, Cascade Complete went from the top position to the very bottom, as their lowest-scoring detergent at that time.
Cascade Complete Gel is now CR's highest-scoring liquid detergent. However, ratings for tablets/pacs range from 85 down to 74, whereas liquid detergents go from 69 down to 33. So even the worst pac scores more highly than the best liquid. Interestingly, Cascade Complete gel's rating for cleaning dishes is "excellent" (the highest score) and cleaning pots is "good" and this is equal to or better than many of the higher-scoring pacs. The difference is that the pacs score more highly for water spots, redeposit and film/discolouration. CR does say that if you have soft water, then you can pay more attention to the cleaning scores and less attention to these other scores. So it's very much a case of YMMV.
CR stopped testing powdered DW detergents a few months ago, stating that consumers are moving away from powders and are buying pacs and liquids these days. It's a shame as Cascade Complete powder scored a very respectable 79 and was equal to or better than many of the pacs.
My partner's parents in the UK have two F&P dish drawers. Their water is horribly hard at 22 GPG (US scale) and they have no whole-house water softener. The built-in water softeners in both of their dishwashers were broken and they were having terrible results after the European detergents went phosphate free. They had no idea why until I told them. So they had the water softener fixed in only one of the two machines. Now that machine produces crystal clear results. I bought some STPP for them and they add it to the other one with the broken water softener. The difference the phosphate makes in that machine is amazing, night and day. They also tried adding phosphate to the one with the working water softener, but it makes no difference in that machine. They use Finish TOL pacs such as Quantum.
I gave them Finish Pro powder to try (same as Cascade Fryer Boil Out -- phosphates and chlorine, but no enzymes). It does largely solve the hard water problems and leaves everything shiny. But without enzymes, it struggles with things like starch from rice and doesn't clean as well.
[this post was last edited: 1/24/2020-11:49]
Cascade Complete Gel is now CR's highest-scoring liquid detergent. However, ratings for tablets/pacs range from 85 down to 74, whereas liquid detergents go from 69 down to 33. So even the worst pac scores more highly than the best liquid. Interestingly, Cascade Complete gel's rating for cleaning dishes is "excellent" (the highest score) and cleaning pots is "good" and this is equal to or better than many of the higher-scoring pacs. The difference is that the pacs score more highly for water spots, redeposit and film/discolouration. CR does say that if you have soft water, then you can pay more attention to the cleaning scores and less attention to these other scores. So it's very much a case of YMMV.
CR stopped testing powdered DW detergents a few months ago, stating that consumers are moving away from powders and are buying pacs and liquids these days. It's a shame as Cascade Complete powder scored a very respectable 79 and was equal to or better than many of the pacs.
My partner's parents in the UK have two F&P dish drawers. Their water is horribly hard at 22 GPG (US scale) and they have no whole-house water softener. The built-in water softeners in both of their dishwashers were broken and they were having terrible results after the European detergents went phosphate free. They had no idea why until I told them. So they had the water softener fixed in only one of the two machines. Now that machine produces crystal clear results. I bought some STPP for them and they add it to the other one with the broken water softener. The difference the phosphate makes in that machine is amazing, night and day. They also tried adding phosphate to the one with the working water softener, but it makes no difference in that machine. They use Finish TOL pacs such as Quantum.
I gave them Finish Pro powder to try (same as Cascade Fryer Boil Out -- phosphates and chlorine, but no enzymes). It does largely solve the hard water problems and leaves everything shiny. But without enzymes, it struggles with things like starch from rice and doesn't clean as well.
[this post was last edited: 1/24/2020-11:49]
ultralux88
Well-known member
I would like to see a detergent with enzymes and STPP rather than bleach. In laundry I mix the Bubble Bandit and a heavy enzyme detergent called Rockin Green Active Wear. The combination of the two really gets things clean. I have bright white whites and I never use bleach. I only use 1 scoop each (both have scoops that are about 3 tbsp for a full scoop), even on the super plus capacity setting. I can actually call the clothes completely clean with just the enzyme detergent, but I notice I still get a water scale scum in the washer’s tub and agitator. That sort of brownish ring around where the top of the water level is, and it disappeared in just a couple loads with one scoop of the Bubble Bandit added.
I got my bubble Bandit yesterday. I drugged out all my meds and about 10 of the Disposable end quote glad containers could I use for my lunches. Put everything in used pots and pans with high temp and everything resulted in a noticeable Improvement several of them bugs are almost completely stain free. In fact when I open the door and the lights inside came on I had forgotten how much of a reflection the lights show off of the stainless steel tub when turned on. And that's with me using lemon shine dishwasher cleaner every month in the dishwasher. Tonight will be a first soiled load.
ultralux88
Well-known member
You'll notice you don't feel the need to ever use any kind of dishwasher cleaner again. Let's face it, I feel if its not getting the inside of itself clean, is it really cleaning your dishes?
Let us know how the Bubble Bandit works out for you, Bob. You should see a big improvement in your hard water, especially when using high temperatures. Everything should emerge shiny with no calcium build up. We shall look forward to hearing if you find the lack of enzymes to be a problem for proteins and starches. I find that powders containing chlorine and phosphate (but no enzymes) do a great job on most things but can't cope with certain starchy residues, such as stuck-on rice, or protein residue from baked chicken. If this turns out to be the case, you could also add some enzyme detergent for the prewash and use the Bubble Bandit for the main wash -- best of both worlds!
ultralux88
Well-known member
I’ll actually do that, add a Finish tab to the prewash if I feel I have some very dirty stuff in there.
