Dishwasher film?

[roto204]

Hi everyone,

My dear friend (who shall remain nameless--*cough* ) is having filming problems with his dishwasher. It seems to have started recently and been somewhat sporadic.

I thought it might be low water temperature, and that certainly might have contributed, but now his water is 140º at the tap and we're still seeing intermittent filming. I'm going to give him some alternative detergent to try, but do you have any thoughts?

We think it's not errant rinse-aid because the last time we went through heck with the rinse-aid dispenser, the machine foamed like crazy and it was easy to tell that there was shenaniganery going on there. And, to the best of our knowledge, the city hasn't cut him over to a different well or anything

Thanks very much in advance for your help!

Nate

 

[whirlcool]

I wold stop the rinse aid and see what happens.

What kind of DW detergent is your friend using? What kind of dishwasher is it, year of mfg?

 

[rp2813]

More Coughing . . .

I have it on excellent authority that the machine is currently running the filmed over batch from last night again, this time using Finish "Glass Magic" along with regular Finish powder, and as a result an absolute foam-o-rama ensued within a couple of minutes. The rinse aid dispenser does seem to be behaving, and even when the old dispenser was leaking, it didn't create so much foam. Neither wash arm is obstructed.

The machine is on its 2nd purge/re-start with no detergent at all, and the foam has now cleared. One glass tumbler has been de-filmed to serve as a "control" item.

Results to follow.

 

[rp2813]

Allen

It's a 1985 Thermador THD 3600 that had been providing stellar performance until a mentally challenged stranger prepped and loaded dishes into it a few weeks ago, resulting in a film nightmare. It's been having film issues ever since, with some batches turning out worse than others.

 

[tlee618]

My guess would be the detergent. Go out and get a box of Cascade with Extra Bleach Action (powder) #1 consumer report rated and this time I agree. 6.4% phosphorus. I couldn't find it for a while but Walmart has it once again. Let us know how this all turns out.

 

[whirlcool]

Is this the dishwasher that somebody put Dawn dishwashing detergent into a few weeks ago?

 

[rp2813]

Well Allen,

It was Mrs. Meyer*s lemon verbena but that doesn't change the fact that regular dish soap did end up in there and trigger the problem via the incident you have recalled.

The thing is, not all loads since have been horrible and the problem seems to be intermittent. The manufacturer recommends bleach in a wash cycle followed by vinegar in the subsequent rinse cycle, then clear rinses from there on. That has been done--right after the initial disaster. It might need another treatment, I'm thinking. The load from Round Two was even worse than the previous one and the control glass looked awful.[this post was last edited: 5/6/2010-19:04]

 

[surgilator_68]

The first question is does the film come off? If not then it's etching. If it does come off it's from too little detergent or detergent with no phosphate.

 

[supersuds]

Finish

often seems to foam too much for me lately. I thought the DW sounded labored, and when I opened the door, the suds were so high it looks as though the wash arm could hardly move.

Went back to Cascade and no problems...but I don't think I'd had these problems with Finish before, either.

After reading that P&G used to put fish oil in Dash to control suds, I'm thinking about adding a fish oil caplet to the main wash to see what happens.

By the way, you might want to check if the DW detergent you're currently using is the phosphate-free variety. Conceivably that could be causing a residue. Just a thought.

 

[rp2813]

I don't think it's etching. The interior is stainless and the door is covered with white spots. It's not just a glassware issue. Some of the dishware feels chalky.

 

[rp2813]

This may be coincidental with a new box of Finish, but it looked exactly the same as the old box. I guess whatever reformulation they did, it's not something they want to brag about or it would have been plastered with that information on the box.

So since the modern day dishwasher doesn't amount to much more than a limp-wristed "sprinkler in a box" per our esteemed thread-starter, perhaps foaming isn't an issue with reformulated Finish in those machines, but problems occur in older machines that actually produce strong spray action.

What to do for Round Three is still being studied.

 

[surgilator_68]

The last box of Finish I bought (about 3 months ago) they had already gone to no phosphate formula here. I was highly disappointed in the results and returned it to the store. Back to Cascade for me.

 

[mrcleanjeans]

I would be finished with Finish,and go to the Cascade powder with Hydro Bleaching action, double checking that it still has the phosphates. I recently was at Target and side by side,there were old phosphated Finish boxes along with new non-phosphate ones,but even the old was around 3.2% phosphates,which is too low anyway! Let us know if your dishwasher still thinks it's on The Lawrence Welk Show!

 

[mrb627]

Finish

Oddly, last weekend while grocery shopping, I noticed that my store no longer carries finish in powdered form. Just the powerball tabs. Cascade has a few flavors in powder but that was all.

Malcolm

 

[rp2813]

Phosphate Free

In super fine print, my latest box of Finish is indeed designated phosphate free.

I'm amazed that lack of phosphates could have caused such big problems. I still have some liquid detergent left. I'm going to see if it has phosphates and if it does, give it a whirl, and pick up some Cascade on my next trip to the store.

 

[gansky1]

This is only the beginning, it's gonna get worse. Much

I've had 4 calls from friends & relatives so far in the last month and am expecting more. Talking with Roger in AZ last night, he mentioned his mother having the same problem with her dishwasher. My mother had the very same symptoms - and in soft water no less.

In all cases, putting the phosphates back into the detergent solution solved the problem.

We should start the "Phosphate Party" and lobby to take back our clean dishes!

 

[supersuds]

Yeah, let's arrange some mass meetings demanding phosphates!

Another point about the new Finish powder, from what I've seen: It has enzymes. The old Finish powder with 3.2% phosphate had chlorine bleach. From what other posters have said, Cascade is going the opposite direction, from enzymes + phosphate to no phosphate + chlorine bleach. Fascinating.

 

[surgilator_68]

We have been running more calls than normal for dishwashers not cleaning since they made the change. Now we have to tell our customers to use more detergent. Before we were telling them to use less because they were ruining their racks and dishes.

One can always add phosphate to the current detergent, just don't use too much or you will over suds. Or you can buy commercial detergent which still has phosphates.

The enzymes are actually better for machines that run a long main wash cycle. Example would be the newer ones or GE with the long main wash. Detergents containing chlorine are better for machines with short cycles as it will do less damage to the seals and racks. There is also less chance of etching.

 

[srswirl]

No Phosphates

I've been using Cascade for over 30 years. Have always loved the stuff...and it has never disappointed me. Bought a new box of Cascade Complete last week...and saw the phosphates were gone. Figured...well, it's Cascade, they won't let me down. WRONG!! NOTHING comes clean any more! I washed a pan that had some minor stuck on food which would have come clean in a normal cycle before...I washed it on Heavy Duty THREE times...the stuff wouldn't come off. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it! So...I took some of my STPP from the laundry room, mixed it all up at about an 8% ratio...and Voila! Cascade works again. People are REALLY going to be disappointed with this no phosphates crap!